Author Topic: United Airlines initiates self-immolation  (Read 43588 times)

230RN

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #250 on: April 14, 2017, 11:54:08 AM »

Amy said,

"Notice that the other 3 passengers who complied did NOT get their asses beat.  Only Doc "I fly from LA 12 hours" Special *expletive deleted*bag Snowflake. "

All this special snowflake stuff reminds me of that dame who kept yelling "I'm a PhD!" at some rally/protest/riot recently.  (Can't find the video.)  Wanted to get somewhere closer to the "action," was stopped by security people.

What's with these people?  I'm no wimp, but at least I can tell when to keep my mouth shut.

Hey, I'm 230RN !  You can't do that to ME !

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Scout26

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #251 on: April 14, 2017, 11:55:05 AM »
There's a top end on the offers (400% of ticket price to a cap of $1350) for a reason.  Simply because otherwise passengers would hold out until it hits a million or more.   Or some other asinine number.

At a certain point, the airline would say "Screw it" and 50-70 waiting for a crew for their plane get inconvenienced.  Then there would be a domino effect.  Flight delays would sky rocket.
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Scout26

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #252 on: April 14, 2017, 11:56:51 AM »
OK, I've seen "pax" before in that odd usage in this thread, had to look it up, found this:
https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/25162/where-does-pax-word-come-from

I may actually join that site.

Just FYI.

Terry, Groundlubber

When I worked for Airborne, Pax were also known as "Supercargo". 
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

makattak

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #253 on: April 14, 2017, 11:58:25 AM »
There's a top end on the offers (400% of ticket price to a cap of $1350) for a reason.  Simply because otherwise passengers would hold out until it hits a million or more.   Or some other asinine number.

At a certain point, the airline would say "Screw it" and 50-70 waiting for a crew for their plane get inconvenienced.  Then there would be a domino effect.  Flight delays would sky rocket.

I will notice they never reached the top end in their offers. They stopped with vouchers and never offered cash.

Incidentally, you think a group of random, unrelated people would hold together as a cartel and not one would jump at $1000 cash to wait one more day? That they'd be able to bid it up to $1M?

That's insane. The airline didn't try all that hard to find volunteers because they thought they could use force. Turns out that's a bad idea.
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Jim147

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #254 on: April 14, 2017, 12:03:52 PM »
No they wouldn't say screw it and just let the other plane be late.
Those late flights go on a list and if the list gets to big .gov sticks their nose in and hand out.

I do think this poorly handled incident might just get a new list started so the congress can look like it's doing something
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KD5NRH

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #255 on: April 14, 2017, 01:59:15 PM »
There's a top end on the offers (400% of ticket price to a cap of $1350) for a reason.  Simply because otherwise passengers would hold out until it hits a million or more.

That's the max they can be required to pay for an involuntary bump.  AFAICT, they can offer whatever they want to get someone to volunteer.

As has been noted elsewhere, it actually encourages involuntary bumping, since some ticket prices are up in the range where nobody in their right mind would volunteer for less than that.  (Last minute first class bookings, etc.)

MechAg94

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #256 on: April 14, 2017, 02:40:08 PM »
If it ever happens to me, I would also ask about a guaranteed rescheduled ticket rather than standby, but who knows what would actually be offered.  

It could be that every single other passenger had some place to be the next day and couldn't afford a delay.  Or they knew the $800 credit offer was BS or the standby ticket would have them waiting 2 days for a flight.  Either way, all the other passengers didn't want to take the offer and were hoping someone else would get the involuntary bump.  Bad luck on United, they picked one of the people who was stubborn enough to argue with police.  

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MechAg94

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #257 on: April 14, 2017, 02:43:02 PM »
You argue all day about what the airline and police have a legal right to do, but at some point, you have to think about public image and what you should do.  Sometimes there is no good option.

I heard a comment yesterday that there is similar outrage over the event on Asian social media in Vietnam and other places.  The comment was that Asian flight routes are coveted and profitable and this could mess with United's bottom line in the end.  I have no idea if that is true, but could be an issue.  


What I haven't heard for certain was if there was no other way to get those employees to the other location or if this was just the normal, least expensive way?  Probably only someone from United could answer that.
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KD5NRH

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #258 on: April 14, 2017, 03:04:09 PM »
What I haven't heard for certain was if there was no other way to get those employees to the other location or if this was just the normal, least expensive way?

Both FedEx and UPS offer overnight service between Chicago and Louisville.  If unconscious and crated doesn't count as rest time for flight crew, then it's past time to rewrite the rules.

Perd Hapley

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #259 on: April 14, 2017, 03:55:31 PM »
Both FedEx and UPS offer overnight service between Chicago and Louisville.  If unconscious and crated doesn't count as rest time for flight crew, then it's past time to rewrite the rules.


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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #260 on: April 14, 2017, 04:58:02 PM »
So I've been reading a couple of different opinions lately that have made some interesting points.

I think we've established that the flight was not actually overbooked/oversold.  There was a seat for every passenger that checked in, the problem arose when they had to move these 4 crew members to Louisville.  

This is important, because one of the allegations is that, based on that information, United violated their own Contract of Carriage.  Specifically, rules 21 and 25.  

One of the semantic issues is that apparently the term "boarding" is not defined in their CoC.  So what is the definition of boarding?  I would argue that once you're past the door of the aircraft, you're "boarded".  

Having made that argument, UAL's options in the CoC decrease significantly.  Because they're no longer denying someone boarding (which, even if they were, they can deny boarding for an oversold flight, but there appears to be no provision in their CoC for denying boarding for moving employees around).

So now we look at their rule for Refusal of Transport (rule 21).  Basically, the list of reasons they can boot you off the plane.  

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec21 (source)

I think there's only one condition that UAL may try to use, and that's:

C.  Force Majeure and Other Unforeseeable Conditions – Whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather or other conditions beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, acts of God, force majeure, strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, terrorist activities, or disturbances, whether actual, threatened, or reported.

I think that if UAL is going to try to claim that their crew schedule issue fits into Force Majeure, I think they're going to see this s***-storm reignite big time.  

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #261 on: April 14, 2017, 06:06:52 PM »
I'm seeing conflicting info on it, but it appears that might be kiboshed by gov regs on what the maximum is, and/or how it is offered. I agree that the above is probably the most efficient way to do it when considering the big picture, but it sounds like gov would have to get out of the way first.

I thought we had already clarified that $1350 is the minimum an airline is required to pay a passenger who is involuntarily bumped. I don't think that number is any kind of limit on what the airline can voluntarily pay in order to induce passengers to volunteer to be bumped.
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charby

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #262 on: April 23, 2017, 12:49:41 PM »
So I'm flying United today, at check in they asked if I wanted to volunteer to bumped if needed for a minimum of $150.
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Fly320s

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #263 on: April 23, 2017, 12:53:18 PM »
Hold out for more.
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charby

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #264 on: April 23, 2017, 01:03:06 PM »
Hold out for more.

I will on my return trip
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charby

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #265 on: April 23, 2017, 06:37:10 PM »
Delayed, stuck in Denver for a while, dining on United tonight
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KD5NRH

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #266 on: April 23, 2017, 08:19:17 PM »
So I'm flying United today, at check in they asked if I wanted to volunteer to bumped if needed for a minimum of $150.

Cash or UA vouchers?

Northwoods

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #267 on: April 23, 2017, 11:03:33 PM »
Cash or UA vouchers?

Never seen them give cash for food when delayed.  Only vouchers.  And usually not enough to cover a full bill given the inflated prices in the concourse. 
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charby

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #268 on: April 24, 2017, 02:22:21 AM »
Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

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charby

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #269 on: April 24, 2017, 02:24:17 AM »
Staying the night in San Francisco. Got $30 voucher for breakfast and a free motel room.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #270 on: April 24, 2017, 07:21:23 AM »
Staying the night in San Francisco. Got $30 voucher for breakfast and a free motel room.


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K Frame

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #271 on: April 24, 2017, 08:54:16 AM »
So I'm flying United today, at check in they asked if I wanted to volunteer to bumped if needed for a minimum of $150.

Add another 1 and two zeros in there, and you have yourself a deal!

How much did you get?

115,000!

Uhm... your voucher is for Vietnamese Dong....
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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #272 on: April 24, 2017, 11:55:04 AM »


Uhm... your voucher is for Vietnamese Dong....

That's some dirty money
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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #273 on: April 24, 2017, 11:56:07 AM »
Just the tip.
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charby

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #274 on: April 24, 2017, 01:45:34 PM »
Arrived, had plenty enough voucher for breakfast, coffee and a bag full of snacks.
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