Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on December 16, 2023, 09:24:52 AM
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I understand he has one in New Zealand too, but this is an interesting write-up on his Hawaiian compound. From the "pre-apocalypse" viewpoint, I found the beach guardhouses and beach patrols interesting. Unless something has changed, Hawaii has had a pretty strict "all beaches are open to everyone" policy. I'm curious what his security people say to anyone walking down "his" beach, or what they'd do if 1000 protestors showed up on the beach and on surfboards to just hang out there.
Otherwise, one thing about all these bazillionaire bunkers: If something globally bad happens quickly, you gotta kind of be at your bunker for it to help you, and most of these people seem to be on the road between all their homes all over the world. Gonna kind of suck when you're at your NYC penthouse when the *expletive deleted*it goes down, and you can't catch a plane to Kauai.
https://www.wired.com/story/mark-zuckerberg-inside-hawaii-compound/
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I am disappoint that the article does not go into detail on the onsite bunker medical facility, armory, and range that I would surely build if I was Mr. Zuckerberg.
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I find it amusing that Zuckerberg et al assume they are going to be safe in their little hideaway bunkers for any extended period of time should SHTF.
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I find it amusing that Zuckerberg et al assume they are going to be safe in their little hideaway bunkers for any extended period of time should SHTF.
Yep, everyone knows it is there. They will know there are food and supplies stored there.
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Yep, everyone knows it is there. They will know there are food and supplies stored there.
That is when your private security/mercenaries, armory, and medical facility start earning their keep.
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That is when your private security/mercenaries, armory, and medical facility start earning their keep.
Until they run out of ammo. Which will happen sooner or later because folks know about the food and supplies stored there.
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Well, supposedly the underground bunker portion is pretty impenetrable (at least against the average rabble), if they want to go the Morlock route.
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Well, supposedly the underground bunker portion is pretty impenetrable (at least against the average rabble), if they want to go the Morlock route.
Given enough time and a determined rabble I am sure there are air intake vents somewhere. They aren't going to suck air out of the dirt. ;)
bob
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Given enough time and a determined rabble I am sure there are air intake vents somewhere. They aren't going to suck air out of the dirt. ;)
bob
Do submarines have air intake vents? Couldn't a billionaire bunker use a similar system?
As for avoiding trouble when TSHTF, I remember reading a story about a guy who survived WWI and decided to sit out WWII in an obscure place nobody ever heard of so he could ignore the war . . . he relocated to an out of the way island called Iwo Jima.
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Do submarines have air intake vents? Couldn't a billionaire bunker use a similar system?
I remember a long time ago reading about anti-radiation vents in fallout shelters and concealing them or hardening them or something, specifically to protect them from bad guys.
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I am sure the Atlas/Titan/Minuteman missile silo/Mt. Weather bunker, etc., engineers solved the air supply problem a long time ago.
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I am sure the Atlas/Titan/Minuteman missile silo/Mt. Weather bunker, etc., engineers solved the air supply problem a long time ago.
Yup, and the Zuck has more money than them, so I'm sure it has been taken care of. =)
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Yup, and the Zuck has more money than them, so I'm sure it has been taken care of. =)
Key point. I may not have the $$$ to provide air in a "closed" system, so MY bunker would need air vents. (Like Ben, I remember reading about concealing air vents and filtering the intakes.)
But I imagine a billionaire could lay in a supply of scrubbers & recyclers that would let him stay closed off from the outside for a long time. Thing is, if hostiles know where the bunker is, given enough time, they'll manage to breach it. So the bunker would largely be a shelter to survive the initial calamity.
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If things got bad enough to where he needed to stay down there for months things are bad enough for something like this to be the answer to his bunker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedan_Crater
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If things got bad enough to where he needed to stay down there for months things are bad enough for something like this to be the answer to his bunker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedan_Crater
Eh There would be limited egress options. Simpler to put cameras at each and have a rotation of dudes monitoring them (pr just use motion sensors). Have a QRF that can respond when they open a door. Plus high fencing all around each door.
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Do submarines have air intake vents? Couldn't a billionaire bunker use a similar system?
As for avoiding trouble when TSHTF, I remember reading a story about a guy who survived WWI and decided to sit out WWII in an obscure place nobody ever heard of so he could ignore the war . . . he relocated to an out of the way island called Iwo Jima.
Yes Subs can take in fresh air while submerged at periscope depth by means of a snorkel mast. Either for ventilation or to run the emergency diesel. This was not used during "sensitive" operations.
However, there are several ways to manage atmosphere in a closed environment.
my first boat did not have an O2 generator so we relied on stored oxygen in high pressure storage tanks and we also relied heavily on chlorate candle for the bulk of our oxygen needs. for CO2 removal we had a CO2 scrubber and could use lithium hydroxide as a back up to that. For CO removal we had a catalytic CO burner. On my 2nd boat we also had a O2 generator that used electrolysis to break down seawater and dumped the excess hydrogen overboard by means of a diffuser system that created no bubble. The O2 generator was affectionally nicknamed "the bomb".
I always get a chuckle out of people that have a bug-out compound someplace away from their regular home. If you ain't there when the SHTF you probably ain't gonna get there.
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During he Cuban missile crisis I was working in Manhattan and Wife1 and I lived out in Flushing, Queens. That crisis developed over time. During the most critical moments many people took off to go home and be with their families, including me, with my new wife. On the way home (the outbound subways were almost as crowded as at the 5 PM rush hour) I was mentally calculating the blast radius of the then-atomic bombs and figuring we would probably still be too close to one dropped in, say, Central Park. By the time I got home to Wife1 I realized that "they" would not drop one bomb in Central Park, but would blanket the whole area. So we stayed in the house until Russia finally agreed to pull the missiles out of Cuba.
I can see bunkers out in the boonies, but for the most part, I wonder if it would even be worth coming out at all to the utter devastation.
Terry, 230RN
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That is when your private security/mercenaries, armory, and medical facility start earning their keep.
It seems to me they are the most likely people to give you problems. At some point, you need provide some protection for the people you depend on to defend you (and their families).
Plus, your mercenaries may not be willing to kill a bunch of hungry civilians. If they were, that adds some additional mistrust.
Him being on an island is likely the best defense he has. As mentioned above, if he isn't there when the crap goes down, he may not be able to get there.
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Keep in mind the ultra wealthy usually own at least one private jet with East coast to Hawaii unrefuelled range. If they can get to the airport the plane is at they can probably get to Hawaii even if all out nuclear war is happening.
Though as someone mentioned would you really want to survive only to come out to such devastation?
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If *expletive deleted*it gets real, his money is worthless. That means the society he depends on is toast. That means, his guards will be inclined to take his stuff. What is he going to do, fire them? Call the cops? Blam- blam, sorry 'ol mark, all your stuff are belong to us.
This is the classic problem for the powerful.
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I'm getting one of those "Internal Server Error" messages. Will try again.
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sumpnz remarked,
"Keep in mind the ultra wealthy usually own at least one private jet with East coast to Hawaii unrefuelled range. If they (and the pilot and he copilot etc) can get to the airport the plane is at they can probably get to Hawaii even if all out nuclear war is happening."
In addition, there is an inherent personnel problem. Everyone who is helping you get away will want a ride for themselves and their families.
Besides, in the case of Hawaiii, it is the most concentrated western base of US military power. Oahu will be plastered flat. (Don't know on which island Zuck has his compound, but chances are the other islands will be granted a similar courtesy --and Guam and the Aleutians...)
Rocketman said,
"...until they run out of ammo..." ...or out of personal guards, who will be sniped at interminably. You can store 100,000 rounds of ammo easily, but you can't store 100,000 guards. <evil grin>
That crater was very impressive, but bear in mind that was a smallish underground shot to determine excavation effectiveness (hole-making ability) in Project Plowshare if I recall correctly. Nevertheless, if it were an airburst, you could count on a large area of devastation.
A smallish airburst:
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/060F/production/_113815510_83a99b1e-7787-41b7-a3b1-d8d01d071b87.jpg)
(Source BBC)
Terry, 230RN
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...
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That crater was very impressive, but bear in mind that was a smallish underground shot to determine excavation effectiveness (hole-making ability) in Project Plowshare if I recall correctly. Nevertheless, if it were an airburst, you could count on a large area of devastation.
A smallish airburst:
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/060F/production/_113815510_83a99b1e-7787-41b7-a3b1-d8d01d071b87.jpg)
(Source BBC)
Terry, 230RN
yep, as is stated in the article I linked to
H and N were air bursts to maximize above surface area wide damage. If going for a bunker system you go for a ground burst and let the resulting ground shock waves do the work of collapsing the bunker. Ground bursts also usually result in far more fall out.
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That is when your private security/mercenaries, armory, and medical facility start earning their keep.
I'm guessing his mercenaries will decide they would rather take it all for themselves first, rather than take orders from autistic lizard man.
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I always get a chuckle out of people that have a bug-out compound someplace away from their regular home. If you ain't there when the SHTF you probably ain't gonna get there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AEj3LA2vSo
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I remember when Zucky and friends were crying about how Trump's wall was hurty and racist and racistly hurty and all that and how we should be building bridges...
And then someone posted, on Facebook, pictures of the very large and sturdy security wall that surrounds Zuckerland in Connecticut with his bridge words superimposed on it.
I seem to recall that those pictures disappeared in rather short order.
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He (they) might also be assuming that after the final mushroom cloud settles down, there won't be anyone left out there anyway. Chernobyl 2020 census = 0.
And of course, there's the historical lessons...
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d4/6c/77/d46c77e2eaec18852a8814b953a78539.jpg)
If there's a castle to be breached, someone will figure a way to breach it.
Terry, 230RN
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Only way to defend a fixed location long term is to (1) harden the target as best as possible, and (2) have a security corps whose loyalty is not dependent on paychecks. Guards doing it for pay have a tendency to walk away when things get tough. After all, even a huge paycheck isn't gonna do you any good if you're dead. Best way he could get their loyalty and maximum efforts would be to bring all of their families to the bunker. Doubt he would want to share that much, but it's best way to get guards to stay at their posts.
As for the armory, I was going to comment on Hawaii's strict firearms laws, but then I realized Zuckerberg is a mega-rich elite, so laws do not apply to him...
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That is when your private security/mercenaries, armory, and medical facility start earning their keep.
Er... That is when they end up owning the bunker...
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Okay, Using roundish numbers here...
10,000 rounds of .22LR is about $700ish.
10,000,000 would be about $700,000.
And from there...
With a smallish budget of $500 million (considering...), you could stock enough ammo to keep a mostly disarmed population brushed back quite a bit, just using .22s...
At which point the population develops an armored trebuchet, and starts lobbing boulders at your solar array.
Because "collapse" of society won't be starting from scratch. There'll be someone wandering around who geeked on medieval siege weapons.
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If buying that many 22s you're probably getting a pretty good bulk discount.
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. . . As for the armory, I was going to comment on Hawaii's strict firearms laws, but then I realized Zuckerberg is a mega-rich elite, so laws do not apply to him...
And neither he nor his personal Gulfstream will be subject to TSA or CBP screening, so long as he doesn't arrive from a foreign country.
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Anyone really think Z-berg's bunker doesn't already have a large arms and ammo stash?
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Anyone really think Z-berg's bunker doesn't already have a large arms and ammo stash?
Still had to get it there
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Still had to get it there
Yup, and no doubt it was easy for him to acquire the stuff and transport it there.
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With his money it should be fairly easy.
Heck he could rent an entire container ship.
Now the question is how closely do they monitor the many coast lines in Hawaii for odd ships showing up?
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With his money it should be fairly easy.
Heck he could rent an entire container ship.
Now the question is how closely do they monitor the many coast lines in Hawaii for odd ships showing up?
I suspect he enjoys something like diplomatic immunity for anything he brings onto the island.
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I suspect he enjoys something like diplomatic democrat donor immunity for anything he brings onto the island.
FIFY
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T.O.M. said,
"... and (2) have a security corps whose loyalty is not dependent on paychecks. Guards doing it for pay have a tendency to walk away when things get tough. After all, even a huge paycheck isn't gonna do you any good if you're dead. Best way he could get their loyalty and maximum efforts would be to bring all of their families to the bunker. Doubt he would want to share that much, but it's best way to get guards to stay at their posts."
I don't know. I'm often amazed about how dictators throughout history grew to have such loyalty to the dictator that when s/he says, Kill That Person (or millions of persons) the Dictatee does it.
Lots of times it's hereditary, but I wonder about how the original Dictator acquired that kind of loyalty in the first place.
Sometimes it's religion... I first got interested in those "first steps" to Dictatorship with the Tom Jim Jones and People's Temple dealie, but it goes beyond the mere religious factor.
It's an abiding interest of mine, and I often wonder about the common factors involved in the rise of any dictatorship.
Terry, 230RN
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I don't know. I'm often amazed about how dictators throughout history grew to have such loyalty to the dictator that when s/he says, Kill That Person (or millions of persons) the Dictatee does it.
Early on many will often attached themselves to the coattails of those seeking power and then later they remain loyal because their social status and that of their family depends on the well being of the dictator. Many also enjoy the feeling of power it gives to someone who otherwise would be just another peasant with a boot on their face. Add to that the fear that if they don't they are the ones killed and often their families as well usually in gruesome ways. To further add to that they know if the dictator falls the opposition will then come after them as well their families again usually in gruesome ways
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Bogie observed,
"At which point the population develops an armored trebuchet, and starts lobbing boulders at your solar array."
If there's a population left. I repeat, Chernobyl census 2020 = 0.
However, the trebuchet thing reminde me of:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d4/6c/77/d46c77e2eaec18852a8814b953a78539.jpg)
If there's a castle to be breached, someone will figure a way to breach it.
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Speaking of a trebuchet, wouldn't it make for a smaller, lighter, and more maneuverable to have a "ballista" instead?
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Anything that throweth big hard heavy thingies or big burny thingies or smelly corpsey thingies a long way with some decent direction. It was good if the big hard heavy things could hit in the same place on the structure time after time.
This all required a lot of engine-uity.
Viz, successive hits in the right places --silo shooting:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/a6GWSiIxG1o?feature=share (<1:00)
https://youtu.be/TSCinpgPluY (2:36)
Terry, 230RN
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Sometimes it's religion... I first got interested in those "first steps" to Dictatorship with the Tom Jones and People's Temple dealie, but it goes beyond the mere religious factor.
Terry, 230RN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIO8z4yOA8w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIO8z4yOA8w)
:angel:
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Oops. JIM Jones. Struck out Tom, added Jim. Let that be my worst mistake of the week. I guess I was thinking of the poster, T.O.M., and linked it with the movie Tom Jones. Had nothing to do with the singer.i
Thank you.
Terry
REFs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Jones_(1963_film)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones
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Fair point. History has shown us examples of people who have shown an ability to get people to do things for them through blind loyalty. Personally, I don't see Zuckerberg generating that kind of fanatical loyalty, but that's just me.
Chris "I didn't drink the Kool Aid"
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^ I'm still fascinated with the origins of Dictatorship. Blind loyalty at the outet is probably key (apart from the other factors, such as religion),
But I guess once you get two goons around you who are willing to kill for you, you're "on your way" to higher and higher levels of control.
Or maybe just two publishers who are willing to lie for you....
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Early on many will often attached themselves to the coattails of those seeking power and then later they remain loyal because their social status and that of their family depends on the well being of the dictator. Many also enjoy the feeling of power it gives to someone who otherwise would be just another peasant with a boot on their face. Add to that the fear that if they don't they are the ones killed and often their families as well usually in gruesome ways. To further add to that they know if the dictator falls the opposition will then come after them as well their families again usually in gruesome ways
Do some subtraction speculation - get rid of the pesky outsiders who want stuff,
and reduce the equation to Z + minions + z's-stuff.