Veteran sues FBI for discrimination

[brimic]

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-07-27/local/40865120_1_court-filings-attorneys-prosthetic-hand

This one might be interesting to watch.
The guy is probably overqualified for the job if anything.

[Hawkmoon]

Even if he can't fire a gun with his left hand, the ADA requires "reasonable accommodation" in the workplace for people with disabilities. Waiving an archaic and unnecessary requirement would seem to be exactly the sort of reasonable accommodation the ADA has in mind.

Otherwise, any agent who breaks or sprains either hand or wrist or arm should be required to temporarily surrender his or her gun, and be assigned to desk duty until he or she can re-qualify with the duty weapon ... with both hands.

[zxcvbob]

I thought (unless maybe you're an O8+) since about 2008, vet == terr'rist.    Has to do with actually taking your oath seriously, especially that "enemies foreign and or domestic" part.  [sorry, Freudian slip]

[brimic]

Even if he can't fire a gun with his left hand, the ADA requires "reasonable accommodation" in the workplace for people with disabilities. Waiving an archaic and unnecessary requirement would seem to be exactly the sort of reasonable accommodation the ADA has in mind.

Apparantly, at least from what I got from the article, he can shoot with his prosthetic hand, but the trainers deemed it unsafe.

[French G.]

I know a guy that for years qualified to be a VA State trooper which required firing with both hands. He was bad at math, add all his fingers up and you got 6. Or he was bad with high voltage electricity which was what got the fingers.

Feebs really missing out, just attach a cybernetic gun permanently. 40MM ought to do nicely.

[T.O.M.]

Even if he can't fire a gun with his left hand, the ADA requires "reasonable accommodation" in the workplace for people with disabilities. Waiving an archaic and unnecessary requirement would seem to be exactly the sort of reasonable accommodation the ADA has in mind.

Otherwise, any agent who breaks or sprains either hand or wrist or arm should be required to temporarily surrender his or her gun, and be assigned to desk duty until he or she can re-qualify with the duty weapon ... with both hands.

Have an acquaintance who is an agent.  Broke his arm a couple of years back. What you describe is what he had to do.

[Hawkmoon]

Have an acquaintance who is an agent.  Broke his arm a couple of years back. What you describe is what he had to do.

But which arm did he break -- his "duty" arm, or his "backup that's never used" arm?

I remain of the opinion that the FBI is in direct and flagrant violation of the ADA in this case. Whether or not intentional, there are no exceptions in the ADA requirements for federal (or any other) law enforcement agencies. Either we are a nation of laws ... or we are not. (Uh, oh.)

[brimic]

Either we are a nation of laws ... or we are not. (Uh, oh.)

The laws only apply to the serf class (non-government).

[T.O.M.]

But which arm did he break -- his "duty" arm, or his "backup that's never used" arm?

I remain of the opinion that the FBI is in direct and flagrant violation of the ADA in this case. Whether or not intentional, there are no exceptions in the ADA requirements for federal (or any other) law enforcement agencies. Either we are a nation of laws ... or we are not. (Uh, oh.)

Don't remember which arm.  Not that good a friend.  I just remember seeing him working out at the local gym after he was cleared to exercise, because he had to pass the fitness test and requalify.

As to the A.D.A., I'll be curious to see how a court interprets 'reasonable accommodation" in this case.  I recall researching during law school that the feds had to provide a smaller handgun (single stack vs. double stack) to agents and officers who, because of small hand and/or hand strength were unable to qualify with the original issue handgun, finding that to be reasonable.  Wonder how they would treat a case with an absent hand, so to speak.

Anyone know how the guy operates his duty handgun with one hand?  I know there are emergency techniques for one hand operation, but don't know if a lot of those would be good for routine operation...

[AZRedhawk44]

Not that I'm likely to rely upon the FBI for my own personal protection...

... But they are supposed to be law enforcement officers and protectors of our society.

This isn't a Fortune 500 company secretary pool he's applying to join, where a larger computer monitor can help with impaired vision issues, or an alternate design mouse can help with carpal tunnel.

This is a job where physical danger is possible, rapid reaction time and combat skills may be necessary, strength and agility and full ambidextrous dexterity will be necessary, and other people will depend upon those capabilities.

If he can't perform the tasks of a paramedic/EMT, as well as operate a firearm, he shouldn't be a FBI agent.

I don't know the dexterity level of his prosthesis, but I doubt it would allow him to assist a paramedic team in the middle of an emergency situation.  Or pick up a person in fireman-carry position without his prosthesis falling off. That would disqualify him if I were writing the requirements.

[Jamisjockey]

Dude you're making deep and wide assumptions about how his prosthesis works or is attached. 

[AZRedhawk44]

Dude you're making deep and wide assumptions about how his prosthesis works or is attached. 

Which is why I made the statement that I don't know the dexterity level of his prosthesis.

If he's full-on Luke Skywalker from RotJ, then he passes the AZR unofficial FBI eligibility test.

[Fitz]

Gotta say I agree with AZR here.

I'd wager the dude got medically retired/MEB'd from the military because of the prosthesis. As far as dexterity, there's little difference between the two jobs.

Still think the agency and its people should get dick-slapped for the mishandling of it, though. But the actual decision not to let him finish? I'm fine with it.


It would not be in the news if it was a guy who lost his hand in a bandsaw accident.

[roo_ster]

Either we are a nation of laws ... or we are not. (Uh, oh.)

Not.

FBI and other federales  should be beaten soundly about hte head with the ADA every day of the week, and twice on Saturdays by commie midget cross-dressing lawyers.

[Tallpine]

Don't remember which arm.  Not that good a friend.  I just remember seeing him working out at the local gym after he was cleared to exercise, because he had to pass the fitness test and requalify.

As to the A.D.A., I'll be curious to see how a court interprets 'reasonable accommodation" in this case.  I recall researching during law school that the feds had to provide a smaller handgun (single stack vs. double stack) to agents and officers who, because of small hand and/or hand strength were unable to qualify with the original issue handgun, finding that to be reasonable.  Wonder how they would treat a case with an absent hand, so to speak.

Anyone know how the guy operates his duty handgun with one hand?  I know there are emergency techniques for one hand operation, but don't know if a lot of those would be good for routine operation...

IIRC, Virgil Earp served as a sheriff in California after losing his arm in Tombstone 

[AZRedhawk44]

IIRC, Virgil Earp served as a sheriff in California after losing his arm in Tombstone 

Sheriff is an elected position.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

wasn't trhere a britt  Geoffrey something lost some pieces and went back to fighter pilot?  got captured?

[T.O.M.]

That's a thought, that giving him a non-special agent position may cover with the A.D.A.  Admin, forensics, or even one of the investigators that do background checks.

[AZRedhawk44]

That's a thought, that giving him a non-special agent position may cover with the A.D.A.  Admin, forensics, or even one of the investigators that do background checks.

Absolutely.  No one is saying he's mentally incompetent.

Similarly to being an FBI agent, I doubt he could be a Secret Service agent either.

There's certain jobs that nothing less than 100% functionality is allowed, and chosen among the very best candidate pools.

"Best" being certainly open to interpretation when it comes to Statist Agent Jackboots, but whatever.

[Fitz]

That's a thought, that giving him a non-special agent position may cover with the A.D.A.  Admin, forensics, or even one of the investigators that do background checks.

As I understand it, that's what they did

[brimic]

FBI and other federales  should be beaten soundly about hte head with the ADA every day of the week, and twice on Saturdays by commie midget cross-dressing lawyers.

Effing-A right.
The Federal Government needs to be held to the very letter of the law that they foist upon its citizens.

The trainers at the FBI were probably full of butthurt when Mr 'Cripple' Special Forces showed more skill than they possessed themselves- they obviously couldn't articulate any reason why he was unqualified for the job. Boofrickenhoo if their egos and peepees got slapped by the court.

[Viking]

wasn't trhere a britt  Geoffrey something lost some pieces and went back to fighter pilot?  got captured?

Douglas Bader
Both legs.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

reallity seems it wasn't an instructor issue as much as a management one
http://news.fredericksburg.com/newsdesk/2013/08/07/stafford-county-man-who-lost-hand-in-army-wins-suit-vs-fbi/

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Douglas Bader
Both legs.

thanks!  he wrote a book i read as a young man.  very impressive guy  quite humble all in all.  they arranged a temporary ceasefire to allow a new set of legs to be airdropped to him after capture,  he had to unstrap to escape the crash

[Fitz]

I'm glad he won. Hope the manager gets sacked

Won't happen though