Author Topic: Home Electric Question (Read 972 times)

Chester32141 · « **on:** August 18, 2012, 10:35:56 AM »

Background:
My house was built in 2011. As we begin to use our offices more we've been tripping the circuit breakers in both rooms, both are on their own 15amp circuits. I've never had a problem w/ tripping breakers in any house I own. All I have in my office is an energy efficient fan w/ 180 watt light, my laptop charger, Older 32" TV, and two 100 watt lights. Hardly enough to trip the breaker, but if I turn the TV on w/ the lights on, it trips. My wife's office takes a little less to trip the breaker.

My questions are ...

1. Is it possible that the two breakers trip at much less than 15 amps ?

2. Is there an easy way to test both circuits and determine if it is the breaker ?

3. Can I just change both offices to 20 amp breakers ?

4. Would this have something to do w/ the house being new and energy efficient ?

Thank you for any and all input ...

Ron · « **Reply #1 on:** August 18, 2012, 10:45:42 AM »

Something is definitely amiss.

Hate to say it, but call an electrician, one who has good references for being able to trouble shoot problems.

The house behind me lit on fire due to questionable wiring. What you describe is nothing to play around with unless you have some background.

Ron · « **Reply #2 on:** August 18, 2012, 10:51:28 AM »

1-It is likely that there is a short to ground or something is wired wrong. Are these standard breakers or GFI breakers?

2- Yes, you can measure the current draw at the breaker(s).

3- Do not switch to 20 amp breakers unless you are sure there are no shorts to ground and you have wiring to handle that current.

4- I doubt there is anything related to energy efficiency ratings causing tripped breakers.

Hawkmoon · « **Reply #3 on:** August 18, 2012, 10:55:24 AM »

Quote from: Chester32141 on August 18, 2012, 10:35:56 AM

1. Is it possible that the two breakers trip at much less than 15 amps ?

Possible, but in a house only a year old very unlikely.

Quote

2. Is there an easy way to test both circuits and determine if it is the breaker ?

Sure. 1800 watts is 120 volts x 15 amps. Get a portable electric heater or a hair drier. The high setting is usually 1500 watts. Plug that in and turn it on. If the circuit breaker doesn't trip, add 100-watt light bulbs until it does.

Quote

3. Can I just change both offices to 20 amp breakers ?

Probably not. 15-amp circuits are usually wired with 14-gauge wire. 20-amp circuits have to be wired with 12-gauge (heavier) wire.

Quote

4. Would this have something to do w/ the house being new and energy efficient ?

Are your "offices" intended as bedrooms? New houses are required by the electric codes to have something called "arc fault" protection. This is different from "ground fault protection" that's required near sinks. To be honest, I don't know just what arc fault protection is or protects against (arcs, I guess), but I have heard electricians complain that the arc fault breakers are a PITA. If you have them, they should be marked. Do the breakers that trip say anything about "arc fault"?

Many years ago my ex-wife and I moved into a new condo unit. About six months after we moved in, the breaker for the master bedroom began tripping at random. It took awhile, but I finally traced it to the outlet behind her bureau. "Production" electricians today don't use the screws on switches and receptacles. There are holes in the back and they just strip the end of the wire and "stab" it into the holes. There's a spring in there that's supposed to make contact.

If they strip the wire too small, or too short, there can be a bad contact. Or the spring can be too weak for reliable contact. I tossed the outlet, and used the screws to install the replacement. End of problem.

zxcvbob · « **Reply #4 on:** August 18, 2012, 10:55:39 AM »

Is the office in a bedroom? It may have an arc-fault interrupter instead of a normal breaker. Those are notorious for nuisance trips. You can switch it out with a regular 15A beaker (don't think it will be code-compliant but it'll be safe)

Do not put a 20A in there because you only have 14 gauge wires on that circuit, so that's a fire hazard. The builder did that to save about $2 on the wire.

ETA: dang it, Hawk beat me by just a few seconds.

Jamie B · « **Reply #5 on:** August 18, 2012, 10:57:53 AM »

Generally, 15 amp circuits use 14 gauge wire, and 20 amp circuits use 12 gauge wire.

Jim147 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 18, 2012, 11:03:20 AM »

I agree with Ron. And everyone else. I guess I'm typing too slow and getting a cup of coffee.

jim

RoadKingLarry · « **Reply #7 on:** August 18, 2012, 12:39:40 PM »

With the house only a year old do you still have any kind of warranty left?

Boomhauer · « **Reply #8 on:** August 18, 2012, 12:57:28 PM »

Somebody *expletive deleted*ed up when wiring the house...

Marnoot · « **Reply #9 on:** August 18, 2012, 01:05:59 PM »

Agreed on checking to see if it's an arc fault circuit interrupter. I know initially those had tons of nuisance trips, I thought they'd worked out the kinks on more recent ones though; maybe not.

Scout26 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 18, 2012, 03:52:57 PM »

Poltergeists and gremlins.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #11 on:** August 18, 2012, 03:55:18 PM »

arc fault fail. my favorite used to be gfi on sump pump circuits. gfi's will sometimes trip if lightening hits near by. like in a driving storm as the water starts to create an indoor pool

280plus · « **Reply #12 on:** August 18, 2012, 04:40:42 PM »

Are you sure it wasn't built on top of an old Indian burial ground?

HankB · « **Reply #13 on:** August 18, 2012, 06:05:23 PM »

Are the outlets wired correctly? For under $10 you can get a tester from a place like Lowe's or Home Depot which you can plug into each outlet to check for proper wiring. http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=292761-12704-61-501&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=3128411&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

If you're even a little bit handy, you can pop off the wallplates for your outlets and switches and just do a quick visual scan to see if everything looks OK - when one of my switches began malfunctioning, I found out the "professional electrician" who'd installed it had cracked part of the switch case.

Lee · « **Reply #14 on:** August 18, 2012, 06:37:55 PM »

Don't know much about electrical stuff...but I had a similar problem. I checked the outlets on the circuit with a voltage meter, and one was real low. A connection was loose in it.
that was in my bathroom- the beaker would trip when my daughter turned on her hair dryer in her bathroom. The dryer and her lights would stay on,while my bathroom would go dark.

Waitone · « **Reply #15 on:** August 18, 2012, 07:06:11 PM »

You most likely need to get an electrician out to figger out why it started tripping. Once a breaker starts tripping the set point will wander around. Any more than a couple of trips and the breaker should be replaced.

Big_R · « **Reply #16 on:** August 18, 2012, 10:52:36 PM »

If you have arc fault breakers, they sometimes don't play nicely with older surge protectors. If you're using a surge protector, try plugging items directly into the outlets and see if the breaker trips.

R

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #17 on:** August 19, 2012, 10:57:55 AM »

Quote from: Big_R on August 18, 2012, 10:52:36 PM

If you have arc fault breakers, they sometimes don't play nicely with older surge protectors. If you're using a surge protector, try plugging items directly into the outlets and see if the breaker trips.

R

thank you! i learned something today

Chester32141 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 19, 2012, 12:01:34 PM »

They are the latest and greatest arc fault breakers ... in my office replacing three 60 watt bulbs w/ 42 watts of CFLs now allows the TV to be on w/ everything else. Not sure about the wife's office at this point.

Thanks to all for your input ...

Hawkmoon · « **Reply #19 on:** August 19, 2012, 12:03:37 PM »

You are, perhaps, familiar with the expression, "Damned by faint praise"?

Quote from: Chester32141 on August 19, 2012, 12:01:34 PM

They are the latest and greatest arc fault breakers ...

That ain't sayin' much, Mate.

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #20 on:** August 19, 2012, 01:28:05 PM »

If the house was built in 2011 there should be a builder's warranty in place. Look for it in your closing paperwork or in the paperwork from your builder. Many builders use a third party warranty provider and you have to contact the provider for service to be arranged rather than calling in an electrician yourself (most won't pay for services you ordered independently unless it was an emergency situation).

Brad

never_retreat · « **Reply #21 on:** August 19, 2012, 08:41:47 PM »

You would need an amp meter to accurately tell if the breaker was bad.
There could be a multitude of problems. Check to see if you have arc fault breakers. They are a pta.
Not code but you could remove and replace with a standard CB. Just leave the old one in the bottom of the panel so you can find it when you sell the house.
They are easily tripped by universal type motors for one thing. (anything with brushes and little sparks inside)
Never put a bigger breaker in. If they only put a 15 in there is only 14ga wire, not sufficient for 20a.
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware/h_d1/N-25ecodZ5yc1vZc1xy/R-202565778/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=amp+meter&storeId=10051#.UDGHqHq3zwc

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Author Topic: Home Electric Question (Read 972 times)