Author Topic: Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car  (Read 2892 times)

Ben

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« on: July 28, 2006, 07:40:39 AM »
Well, here's a bizzaro twist in the "customer satisfaction" arena. Any of our legal beagles want to comment on why this is a civil, rather than a criminal case? If the story is accurate, it seems like outright theft to me. If the dealership was really "ripped off" by the customer, they should have filed a civil case rather than taking the truck in the middle of the night:

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http://www.newschannel5.com/content/investigates/20762.asp?print=true

NewsChannel 5 Investigates:
Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Car Back
Posted: 7/17/2006 9:55:00 PM
Updated: 7/17/2006 11:23:17 PM

NewsChannel 5 Investigates:
Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Car Back
Car dealers are often the butt of jokes. But one local truck buyer is not laughing about the deal that he got -- and lost. Consumer advocates say this case raises lots of questions about how a well-known auto dealer does business.

Earl Kieselhorst thought he owned a 2003 Chevy Silverado -- a truck that he bought from Bill Heard Chevrolet in Antioch.

Kieselhorst says he "paid cash for it. Made the deal. Sales manager signed off on it. Signed all the paperwork. And drove off."

He traded in his car and gave the dealer a check for $8,100.

"I have the keys," Kieselhorst tells NewsChannel 5 investigative reporter Jennifer Kraus.

But he doesn't have his truck.

Bill Heard does.

"I can't see any reason why this wouldn't be my car," he adds.

Just one day after he bought the truck, a salesman from Bill Heard called to say the dealership was having second thoughts about the deal.

He told Kieselhorst that if he wanted to keep his truck, he needed to fork over another $10,000 -- something he refused to do. After all, he says, they had a signed deal.

But the next morning, when Kieselhorst woke up, his truck was gone.

"And I was like I can't believe it," he recalls.

The dealership had come and taken it in the middle of the night.

"I've got a contract. This is a legal contract. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say."

Metro police investigated and wanted to file charges against Bill Heard for stealing the truck.

Detective Ray Paris got a statement from Bill Heard, blaming a rookie salesman for what happened and calling it a mistake. (Read the statement given to police by Bill Heard.)

"They inadvertently sold the vehicle at a lower cost than what they should have," Paris says.

Kathleen Calligan says the Better Business Bureau has received literally hundreds and hundreds of similar complaints about the Bill Heard dealership -- more complaints by far than any other auto dealer in all of Middle Tennessee.

"Not only is this an unbelievable volume of complaints, most of them are unresolved," she adds.

Calligan says that, in this day and age, dealers know exactly how much a vehicle is worth.

And if a dealership truly does make a mistake, she says they'll take the loss -- rather than call the customer and demand he make up the difference.

"There is absolutely no reason for a sale not to be final when the customer walks out of the dealership," Calligan adds.

Yet even after Bill Heard had taken back the truck, the salesman called Kieselhorst again.

"He calls me back and offers to sell it to me for $11,000 more than I paid for it," Kieselhorst recalls.

Kieselhorst said no way.

And even though he still believes he is the rightful owner of the truck, when we went looking for it at Bill Heard, we found a customer checking it out.  It was for sale, the customer and a saleswoman told us.

"The whole thing has just gotten more and more ridiculous," Kieselhorst says.

And now the self-proclaimed largest Chevrolet dealership in the world is accusing Kieselhorst of "trying to pull a fast one" on them.

"This is the way this company does business," Calligan says. "They really thought they would be able to pull a fast one on their customer."

After we tried to get their side for days, Bill Heard faxed us a statement just before air time, saying that Kieselhorst "should have known" that the deal he got was too good to be true.

The company says:

"It is not reasonable or fair to expect for Bill Heard Chevrolet ... to be bound by a sale where a clear and material mistake was made, and the customer was aware that it was a mistake."

(Read Bill Heard's statement provided to NewsChannel 5.)

Kieselhort says he just thought Bill Heard was giving him the type of good deal they advertise.

As for the police investigation, the DA says this is a civil case, not a criminal case.  He says Kieselhorst is free to take the dealer to court -- something he's now seriously considering.
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K Frame

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2006, 07:57:03 AM »
Seems to me that the dealer contract is exactly that, a legally binding contract.

As a breach of contract case, it would go to civil court, I'd think.

I think I'd be filing, at a minimum, a multi-million dollar lawsuit, and see about getting it certified as a class action suit.
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BozemanMT

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2006, 07:58:20 AM »
That is unbelievable
why wouldn't that be theft?
amazing
why would anyone do business with this place.
Brian
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StopTheGrays

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2006, 08:09:52 AM »
If the buyer still has the keys, couldn't he just show up some day, sneak in and drive off in the truck? The police did not arrest the dealer for taking it back why would they arrest the owner?
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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2006, 08:11:23 AM »
It's breach of contract, sure, but it's also theft.

A contract was signed. He bought it. He paid for it. He took it home. Surely somewhere in that process it became his truck.

They came and took it back. They stole it.
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Car Knocker

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2006, 08:25:48 AM »
I believe I would go on their lot and drive *my* truck home.
Don

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2006, 08:31:24 AM »
Did they give him back his traded-in car?

What about the money he paid for the truck in the first place?  

Doesn't pass the sniff test to me, and I'd be more than happy to help pay for his attorney's fees to see that dealership find itself in front of a judge.
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Otherguy Overby

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2006, 08:42:33 AM »
The repo man is really lucky this didn't happen in Texas...

It would really be news if the owner had legally shot the repo man.
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Moondoggie

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2006, 08:42:41 AM »
I agree with other posts, I would go to the lot and drive my truck home.  Then I'd make sure I had the locks changed and kept it in a garage until all was said and done.

If the dealership thinks they were wronged, then they should initiate legal action against the customer.  They have no right to "reposses" the vehicle.

Everytime that another chapter was added to the sage, I'd hold a press conference.

Serreptitously taking the vehicle was a criminal act, absent a credit agreement and failure to make payments.

This dealership is trying to bully the customer by forcing him to initiate legal action, since they probably already have a lawyer on retainer (Ya think?) and don't have any hoops to jump through to obtain representation.  The dealer knows full well that civil action will take months/years.  In the meantime they not only have the vehicle in question, but the customer's trade-in AND his cash.  I don't know if I could keep myself out of prison if this happened to me!
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Matthew Carberry

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2006, 09:50:18 AM »
If he has the title to the vehicle in his name then that truck is stolen.  The sales contract provides the evidence the title transaction is valid.

If his local law won't help I'd start going up the LEO chain and I'd probably ask an officer to accompany me as I went to retrieve the truck with the VIN and description that matches my title.
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K Frame

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2006, 10:08:54 AM »
Probably wouldn't have the title by the next day, unfortunately.
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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2006, 10:44:26 AM »
The outrage, the injustice, the frothing at the mouth and rolling on the ground that I would be doing!:D

How is this not Auto Theft, Theft, and Criminal Conversion?  The DA takes a pass?!?!  So, if I sell a COP a truck and I then do the same thing will it still not be a crime (answer:  of course not, if it was a cop that got screwed over, it would be several felonies).

Someone check out how much money that car trader gave the DA during the last election RFN!  I can smell this two states away.

This guy should go screaming into civil court.  Can you get triple damages and attorney fees for Conversion in the Land of Orange?  Hope so, he deserves it.
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Iain

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2006, 12:09:39 PM »
Similar complaints according to the article. Just how many?

It's too stupid to be a scam. If it was little enough money that the average person would just quietly pay up and get their car back I can see it working, despicable as it is. $11,000 is a little too much for that to happen.
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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2006, 01:24:24 PM »
Hey, thats Bill Heard Chevrolet, Mr. Big Volume.
We hear their ads all the time.

Yes, once the contract is signed and the owner has possession (actually just signing the contract and delivering the money) the vehicle is his.  The seller cannot "take back" the deal.  Too late.  So it is no different than if Mr. Big Volume snuck into my driveway and took off with my Porsche (I dont have one, btw).  It isnt his.  period.
So we have a civil suit against Mr Big Volume by the buyer.  And we have a criminal suit against Mr Big Volume by the state.
This is not the first time I remember hearing about dirty dealing from Mr. Big Volume on the news.  I strongly suspect the workings of the old boy network.  If someone doesnt go to jail this is a major shanda.
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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2006, 01:53:01 PM »
Car sales are subject to the three day cooling off rule (some federal fair credit reporting act thing). It was designed to protect buyers but unscrupulous dealers use it too. They get your money. Then a day or two later they say they screwed up and need more. If you don't fork it over they can cancel the deal.

A now defunct Dodge dealer in OKC - Lyn Hickey dodge was famous for that here. Hell - he had those things on the entrances to his lot where if you tried to drive out you'd destroy your tires. But he's gone now - good riddance.
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Dean C

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2006, 02:33:07 PM »
The three day cooling off is for new cars only. You buy used, it't a done deal.
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brimic

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2006, 02:47:12 PM »
What probably happened was that a day later, another customer came in and was looking to buy a Z-71 with the same options, was willing to finance with the dealer and had a cherry trade-in. The dealer knew exactly where to find one Sad

Sounds like the sales manager had his head buried firmly up his rectum, it certainly wasn't the customer's fault- there is no law that says that you cannot sell property or merchandise below cost.

It really does sound like this dealer has a lot of the local law and politicians firmly in his pocket.
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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2006, 03:55:47 PM »
I used to work for the largest automotive retailer in the country (won't take you too long to figure out who...just Google).  I have never encountered as much underhanded, sneaky, backstabbing in my whole life as I did in the 10 years I worked there.

Oh, and for those wondering, "Why did you stay then?"  I had a cherry deal and it was worth putting up with the BS for.  Car people, as a rule, suck.  Sorry if you take that personally.

Greg

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2006, 04:54:29 PM »
I have a request. When you post a story like ythis please indicatre where it took place. Thereis a Bill Heard dealership in Houston,butr no Channel 5.

Bob

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2006, 07:45:47 PM »
I'd like to see the "contract" that was signed.  Some of them are so one-sided that the customer may have actually agreed to allow the dealer to retake possession of the car if certain circumstances unfavorable to the dealer exist.

Occasionally dealers will take a trade-in, hand over the keys to a new car, sell the trade-in, then turn around and tell the customer with the new car that it will cost $5000 more because they didn't qualify for the financing that they initially expected.  When the customer asks for their trade-in vehicle back, it's long gone.  A few months go by, they can't make the new higher payments on the new car and the dealer repos it.  They then sell that car at much lower used car price and pursue the customer for the balance on the new car price.

As much as new cars cost and as sneaky as many dealers are, if I wasn't a lawyer I'd hire one to handle new car purchases for me.  Sadly, no "new" car purchases are in my near future.
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mfree

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2006, 07:57:19 PM »
So, what you're saying is that one should go wrangle a sweety deal with these oxygen thieves at the dealership and then hide the vehicle for a week or two where nobody can find it?

Ben

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2006, 07:59:24 PM »
Bob -- the story notes that this is in TN.

The "he should have known it was too good to be true" thing just doesn't wash. The local dealership that I bought my truck from is a pretty square dealing place. But if I go get a newspaper tomorrow morning, their ad will have something like, "Manufacturer+Dealer Incentive+Rebate+Special Deal -- $9,000 off MSRP!!!!!!"

When dealers start throwing big numbers like that around as a discount, how the hell is anybody supposed to know what the "real" cost is??
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brimic

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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2006, 08:15:57 PM »
Hmmm. On the last truck we bought, we ended up paying $11,000 less than the sticker price,  and that was without a trade-in. Sure there were a lot of incentives, discounts, GM credit card points, etc, but I had a pitbull of a negotiator scratching for every penny. My wife makes a living by negotiating prices, having her haggle with the dealers is fun to watch and educational. With some of the lies she told one dealer and the demands she made, I had a very hard time keeping a straight face. Cheesy
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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2006, 02:33:32 PM »
brimic:

SOunds like you married a wonderful woman!
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Dealership Doesn't Like Deal, Takes Back Car
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2006, 04:33:03 PM »
Quote from: BenW
The "he should have known it was too good to be true" thing just doesn't wash. The local dealership that I bought my truck from is a pretty square dealing place. But if I go get a newspaper tomorrow morning, their ad will have something like, "Manufacturer+Dealer Incentive+Rebate+Special Deal -- $9,000 off MSRP!!!!!!"

When dealers start throwing big numbers like that around as a discount, how the hell is anybody supposed to know what the "real" cost is??
And lets keep in mind that the 'real' cost is further muddled by dealer incentives.  At the end of the season they get cash bonuses for cars sold and whatnot.  With such a framework, how could we ever know the real cost?  Arn't sales 'at cost' a willfull mistruth?  


I just finished a summer with an AG's office 'fighting' consumer fraud.  
Quote from: Moondoggie
This dealership is trying to bully the customer by forcing him to initiate legal action, since they probably already have a lawyer on retainer (Ya think?) and don't have any hoops to jump through to obtain representation.  The dealer knows full well that civil action will take months/years.  In the meantime they not only have the vehicle in question, but the customer's trade-in AND his cash.
This is happens quite frequently and I would have hoped it would need only happen once to have a business shut down, boycotted, sued, perhaps a couple imprisonments; made an example of.  Why don't we see scams like that exposed by our television news reporters more consistantly?  The Fourth Estate has long since abandoned the little people if it ever was on their side in the first place.