Post by: MicroBalrog on June 25, 2008, 12:05:27 AM
By ANNA M. TINSLEY
atinsley@star-telegram.com
If Duane Suddeth had his way, he could strap on a handgun and wear it anytime, anywhere without concealing it.
That day has not come in Texas, but the 42-year-old Bedford man is among thousands hoping it is on its way.
"This is the publics right," Suddeth said. "Whether they choose to exercise that or not is up to them."
Texas, despite its independence and frontier reputation, is one of only six states where handguns cannot in some form legally be worn in plain view.
Suddeth is among a group of residents wanting to change that who have joined a growing nationwide "open-carry" movement.
Some say it harks back to constitutional rights and frontier days when settlers carried their weapons where everyone could see them.
"It was considered part of everyday life back then," said John Pierce, co-founder of www.OpenCarry.org, a champion of the effort. "The concealed-carry part was what was looked at with disdain."
In Texas, where residents may carry concealed handguns if they have a permit, more than 3,500 people have signed an online petition asking Gov. Rick Perry and the Legislature to make Texas an open-carry state.
"Cowboys and Indians, and the Alamo and many just assumed that Texas was an open-carry state," wrote Gary Williams, one of many Texans advocating for gun law change. "Clearly, there are some changes that need to be made."
Gun safety advocates arent so sure.
"What are they trying to do? Go back to Texas gunslinger days?" asked Richard Leal, a board member of the Houston-based Texans for Gun Safety. "Things are bad enough as it is, with people 18 and older being authorized to carry guns."
The open-carry effort
Many states such as Texas do have concealed handgun rules and permits in place.
But many also have open-carry rules, unlike Texas, along with New York, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Florida, South Carolina and Washington, D.C., according to OpenCarry.org.
Dozens of states either issue licenses for open carry or allow the practice without any license, according to the Web site.
"The concealed-carry movement that swept the country in past decades has been a great benefit to law-abiding citizens to be able to protect themselves in an uncertain world," Pierce said. "But we are trying to re-educate people that open carry is . . . a basic gun right."
The Texas Citizens Defense League, of which Williams and Suddeth are members, is trying to get the word out.
Part of that is the petition that asks that all people who may legally buy a handgun also be allowed to carry it openly, except in places prohibited by law.
"I cant count the times I have been in some discussion about open carry in some Northern state . . . and somebody says, 'Hey, this is not . . . Texas, " said Mike Stollenwerk, co-founder of OpenCarry.org.
"And I respond, 'Thankfully you are correct, as open carry is banned in Texas. "
Texas reaction
Any change to the law would come from the Texas Legislature, which is why the petition is to lawmakers and Perry.
The issue is not on the governors plate yet, a spokeswoman said.
"The governor is very supportive of conceal and carry laws," said Kristi Piferrer, a Perry spokeswoman. "Expanding that to open carry probably will take a lot of public deliberation and legislative guidance."
Some law enforcers say they would be leery of an open-carry policy in Texas.
"I really think it would cause a lot of uneasiness in the community, with people seeing so many guns," Tarrant County Constable Sergio DeLeon said. "It could create more problems than it would solve."
Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson, who as a state senator helped make concealed-carry law in 1995, said he doesnt believe that open carry would create any problems.
While he never considered proposing an open-carry measure, Patterson said he has seen the practice in Arizona.
"I went into the bank, and a guy walked in with a .45 in his back pocket," he said. "I thought, 'Well, thats unusual. "
"You never know"
Suddeth, an IT professional who does some travel for work, said he would like to openly carry a loaded handgun. In the past year, Suddeth said there was an elderly woman attacked, cars broken into, a home broken into and several assaults in his Bedford neighborhood.
"You never know when crime is going to happen," he said. "I think eventually we will see open carry in Texas.
"Eventually, it will happen."
Online: www.petitiononline.com/texasoc/petition.html
Open-carry states Texas is one of six states that either do not allow or highly restrict the open carrying of handguns in public. The others are New York, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Florida and South Carolina, as well as Washington, D.C., according to OpenCarry.org.
More than a dozen states require a license for open carry, from Utah to Mississippi to Massachusetts. Eleven more, from Vermont to Arizona, allow it but dont require licenses. Still more generally permit it but offer various restrictions. And two states, California and Illinois, allow loaded handguns to be carried in rural areas, according to the Web site.
"OpenCarry.org believes that 'a right unexercised is a right lost, and increasingly gun owners are agreeing," according to the Web site. "Its time gun carry comes out of the closet in America."
Source: www.OpenCarry.org
Post by: roo_ster on June 25, 2008, 06:14:10 AM
Post by: MicroBalrog on June 25, 2008, 06:20:01 AM
I am one of them.
I salute you for helping to make a world a better, freer place.
Post by: zahc on June 25, 2008, 07:39:03 AM
"Really, open carry is illegal? You mean without a permit?"
"No, it's illegal anyway. You can't even get a permit."
"Oh. Wow, this is Texas, I never would of thought that."
Post by: El Tejon on June 25, 2008, 07:45:03 AM
Fortunately last times I have been down cops are not so frightened as guns as they used to be.
I was at a gun shoppe in Kerrville during a Texas Sheriff Convention. The door opened and about a dozen cops walked in and there I was, printing badly.
They looked at me and heard me talk to the store owner and then asked me where I was from. I told them and they asked me about hunting in Indiana. That was all--whew!
Post by: El Tejon on June 25, 2008, 07:46:51 AM
Quote
I went into the bank, and a guy walked in with a .45 in his back pocket," he said. "I thought, 'Well, thats unusual.
You people carry guns in your back pockets down there (in GWR)
Post by: seeker_two on June 25, 2008, 07:47:23 AM
This may help make CCW legal for all w/o the steenkin' permits....
Post by: K Frame on June 25, 2008, 08:22:19 AM
OLD WEST!
BLOOD IN THE STREETS!
CHAOS! MAYHEM! MURDER! PERFIDY!
Post by: old school on June 25, 2008, 10:08:14 AM
Post by: Brad Johnson on June 25, 2008, 10:18:19 AM
Brad
Post by: MechAg94 on June 25, 2008, 10:49:38 AM
I have an IWB holster for my Sig P220 that is fairly comfortable and fits nicely under a T-shirt and shorts. I wore an undershirt though to keep it off my skin and dry. I just had to be sure the T-shirt didn't ride up on the holster after sitting down. My P225 fits in the holster, but it is loose and falls out easily.
Post by: El Tejon on June 25, 2008, 10:54:36 AM
Post by: seeker_two on June 25, 2008, 11:14:24 AM
I thought it was the general ban on carrying firearms that Tejas imposed in 1874. In '95 you just allowed carrying hidden firearms.
1874: No handgun carry at all.
1995: CCW with permit.
2007: Carry pistol in car w/o permit.
2009: Carry open or concealed w/ no permit required.....
One can dream.......
Post by: Balog on June 25, 2008, 11:23:22 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on June 25, 2008, 11:26:05 AM
So was that "No carry at all" law actually enforced?
Where, in the middle of nowhere?
"Sir, you can't carry that shot..." *click* "...have a good day, now!"
Post by: seeker_two on June 25, 2008, 11:31:45 AM
So was that "No carry at all" law actually enforced?
Depends on who you were and who you knew....
Post by: El Tejon on June 25, 2008, 12:36:21 PM
Gee, wonder who that was enforced against back then?
Post by: Matthew Carberry on June 26, 2008, 07:37:28 PM
Forgot that I had already signed it. Number 51, in fact.
Brad
Brad
Where is it written you can only vote once?
Post by: LAK on June 26, 2008, 10:10:06 PM
It is still a real shame that the legislature did not back Suzanna Gratia-Hupp when she tried to get a Vermont style carry Bill passed in Texas years ago.
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http://ssunitedstates.org
Post by: seeker_two on June 27, 2008, 01:49:25 AM
This is some good news.
It is still a real shame that the legislature did not back Suzanna Gratia-Hupp when she tried to get a Vermont style carry Bill passed in Texas years ago.
It is still a real shame that the legislature did not back Suzanna Gratia-Hupp when she tried to get a Vermont style carry Bill passed in Texas years ago.
Considering that the legislature is meeting in January and that 2010 is an upcoming election year for the Governor, the proposal may come back....
Post by: anygunanywhere on June 27, 2008, 03:14:03 AM
This is some good news.
It is still a real shame that the legislature did not back Suzanna Gratia-Hupp when she tried to get a Vermont style carry Bill passed in Texas years ago.
It is still a real shame that the legislature did not back Suzanna Gratia-Hupp when she tried to get a Vermont style carry Bill passed in Texas years ago.
Considering that the legislature is meeting in January and that 2010 is an upcoming election year for the Governor, the proposal may come back....
Texas' Gov. Perry is not the issue. He advocates carry on schools, pretty much anywhere LEO can carry. If it hits his desk, he will sign it.
The problem, as usual are the democrat panty wetters, a large number of them minorities.
Anygunanywhere
Post by: MicroBalrog on June 27, 2008, 03:38:46 AM
Quote
The problem, as usual are the democrat panty wetters, a large number of them minorities.
[/b]What do you mean?
Post by: Nitrogen on June 27, 2008, 04:10:03 AM
I am one of them.
As am I.
I probably wouldn't open carry that often, but I'd like the option.
Post by: Nitrogen on June 27, 2008, 04:17:09 AM
Quote
The problem, as usual are the democrat panty wetters, a large number of them minorities.
What do you mean?
I can't speak to MicroBalrog, I can explain something I learned while talking to some black activists.
Although gun control was a racist means to keep blacks and other minorities down, and under the thumb of others, there's a common belief these days that the LACK of gun control is racist now. The way the thinking goes, "the white man" makes guns commonly available so that blacks will kill themselves.
I know. I actually heard this from multiple people, one, from Sirius' Left's host Mark Thompson.
Much along the lines of what Bill Cosby said here people want to blame others for their shortcomings.
"It's not OUR fault our kids shoot each other up! It's the white man's fault for flooding our streets with guns!"
Post by: MicroBalrog on June 27, 2008, 04:18:39 AM
Post by: roo_ster on June 27, 2008, 06:28:51 AM
I thought people like that were rightfully restricted to the fringe?
The fringe of what?
Those sorts of fringers have been elected to the US Congress, thanks to racially gerrymandered districts: Cythia McKinney, Kieth Ellison, Berniece Johnson, others.
Explicitly black culture is rife with conspiracy theories. The closer one gets to the poverty-ridden inner-cities, the more so, but it can be found even in the college educated. An Army buddy of mine had no problem with white folks, but he did not like asians in the least. His college-educated self held firmly to the belief that asian immigrant store owners in the inner city were not legally bound to pay taxes and thus had an unfair advantage vis a vis black store owners. I am not making this up.
Another fellow I worked with doing landscaping (not college-educated) was certain Arkansas had a law back in the 1800s and early 1900s that said the only part of the pig a black person could eat were the ears and feet. Again, I am not making this up. [He also asked to borrow $25 from me after declaring, "The white man is a MF." I wonder why I didn't loan him the cash?]
Think of, say, Russian peasants back in the 1800s and how they would get all up in arms and blame the "Joos" for all sorts of things. Or today, how native Indonesians have their own set of conspiracy theories (and riots!) with regard to the overseas chinese living in Indonesia.
Post by: MicroBalrog on June 27, 2008, 06:30:22 AM
Your MicroBalrog unit has shut down in the realization of just how stupid some people are. Please take it in for repair.
Post by: roo_ster on June 27, 2008, 07:05:40 AM
I'm sure if we look back in my family history, at some time, back in the Old World, one of them was participating in the same sort of foolishness.
Post by: seeker_two on June 27, 2008, 08:05:47 AM
I thought people like that were rightfully restricted to the fringe?
Yep......if you consider the "spiritual leaders" of the leading Presidential candidate fringe-y......
Post by: Nitrogen on June 28, 2008, 04:34:29 AM
...wait... but this is the 21st century...
Your MicroBalrog unit has shut down in the realization of just how stupid some people are. Please take it in for repair.
Your MicroBalrog unit has shut down in the realization of just how stupid some people are. Please take it in for repair.
This is a great explanation on how I felt when I heard that garbage.
I had said that the circuit breaker in my brain protecting me from the dumb had tripped.