Economic Stimulus Rebate Checks

[The Annoyed Man]

Where  does  the  money  come  from?

The  government  will  borrow  the  money  from  China  &  Saudi  Arabia  to  pay  for  the  rebate,  which  is  projected  to  cost  $117  billion  over  the  next  two  years,  adding  to  the  federal  deficit.

The Federal government owes $53.3 trillion in future obligations that it has no ability to pay. The Government Accountability Office has sounded the alarm, but neither the politicians nor the American people are listening.

[Standing Wolf]

Where  does  the  money  come  from?

It's our money in the oft-cited "first place." We earned it. We should never have granted government the power and authority to take it from us. I doubt we're courageous enough ever to take it back.

[Manedwolf]

Exactly. It's my money.

I see it as $600 of my money back for me to use. $600 less to be wasted on public art projects or welfare.

[taurusowner]

It was already ours.

If the .gov can afford to give us $$ back, they shouldn't have taken it in the first place.

And I love how the Libs are on board with this.  They are basically admitting that $$ in the hands of American people does more to stimulate the economy and national growth than $$ in the hands of government.  Too bad they'll forget that lesson next time they want to raise taxes.

As far as our deficit, there's a simply solution: Fire the IRS, the Dept of Education,the BATFE, and a few other agencies.  Eliminate all taxes everywhere except a new standardized sales tax of about 20-25%.  Anything that goes over that budget gets sent to the chopping block.

Problem solved.

[Manedwolf]

Eliminate all taxes everywhere except a new standardized sales tax of about 20-25%. 

Black market much? 

[HankB]

Where  does  the  money  come  from?

From people like me, who paid more in taxes during 2007 than we spent on food, clothing, shelter, and transportation combined. 

And I won't be getting my $600 . . . YOU will.

It would be polite to say "Thank You."

[MechAg94]

It just underscores the fact that we are overpaying in taxes.

[Firethorn]

Eliminate all taxes everywhere except a new standardized sales tax of about 20-25%. 

Black market much? 

In most ways it'll still be simpler to audit than the current income taxes.  After all, you don't have to worry about the 100 million or so working americans, just the businesses.  Heavy fines if you're caught doing it, of course. 

[Manedwolf]

People just never had a single class in how the economy works...

1. Huge sales tax implementation date is announced.
2. People buy and buy and buy and hoard up to that date. Stores move inventory, especially durable goods. Most durable goods are still made in the US. 
3. Day comes. Sales all but stop, supply chain full of dead inventory of durable goods. Collisions back to the factory levels, massive layoffs, etc. 
4. Black market trading among people who hoarded, to save 25% on items.
5. Economy, 2/3s dependent on consumer spending, goes poof.

[The Annoyed Man]

Most durable goods are still made in the US. 

Send me some of whatever you're smokin' please.

And of course the hoarded items will never be depleted, forcing consumers back to tax subject sources,right?



 

[K Frame]

This is more economics than politics...

[Manedwolf]

Many large appliances like washers, kitchen ranges, and refrigerators are still manufactured or at least assembled in the US. It's cheaper than shipping heavy units overseas. That is what is meant by durable goods. Not the Chinese toaster that you throw out, but the massive Whirlpool stainless refrigerator made in Arkansas.

Small appliances are almost entirely made overseas, but that's not the same thing. Durable goods orders are very important to US manufacturing.

[K Frame]

My new refrigerator, an Amana, era hecho en Mexico...

[The Annoyed Man]

"Exactly. It's my money.

I see it as $600 of my money back for me to use. $600 less to be wasted on public art projects or welfare."

You can see it any way you want to, but pay attention to what you are reading....

"It was already ours.

If the .gov can afford to give us $$ back, they shouldn't have taken it in the first place."

I suggest you all go back & re-read the original post. It is 3 simple sentences. But let me simplify it for you:

The government will borrow the money...why? Because they already spent YOUR money- the government can NOT afford to give you your money back because they no longer have it. It has already been spent on "public arts projects & welfare".

That is why they will "borrow the money".

"It's our money in the oft-cited "first place." We earned it. We should never have granted government the power and authority to take it from us. I doubt we're courageous enough ever to take it back."

First, even people who don't work or pay taxes are also getting the same rebate that you'll be getting 2. the American people are pussies & will never, even with the freedom to assemble & protest will never do what they did in East Germany or Poland ...where they faced secret police & a communist government.

[AZRedhawk44]

People just never had a single class in how the economy works...

1. Huge sales tax implementation date is announced.
2. People buy and buy and buy and hoard up to that date. Stores move inventory, especially durable goods. Most durable goods are still made in the US. 
3. Day comes. Sales all but stop, supply chain full of dead inventory of durable goods. Collisions back to the factory levels, massive layoffs, etc. 
4. Black market trading among people who hoarded, to save 25% on items.
5. Economy, 2/3s dependent on consumer spending, goes poof.

 

First thing I would do prior to the implementation of a sales tax in lieu of an income tax is buy a new car and a new motorcycle.  I'd also make sure that any "durable goods" in the house (A/C, fridge, washer/dryer, etc) are good to go for a good, long time.

Then, I don't have to pay sales tax on a car or other big purchases for at least 10 years.

It sure would stimulate a lot of saving and investing rather than spending though.

[roo_ster]

People just never had a single class in how the economy works...

1. Huge sales tax implementation date is announced.
2. People buy and buy and buy and hoard up to that date. Stores move inventory, especially durable goods. Most durable goods are still made in the US. 
3. Day comes. Sales all but stop, supply chain full of dead inventory of durable goods. Collisions back to the factory levels, massive layoffs, etc. 
4. Black market trading among people who hoarded, to save 25% on items.
5. Economy, 2/3s dependent on consumer spending, goes poof.

Sure, there would be short-term effects.

But, not everybody has the disposable cash to make 10+ years of future purchases in one year.  Or the space to store the extra washer & dryer & auto.  That stuff eventually wears out, anyway, and they will have to purchase it at a later date.

Enforcement would be a whole lot easier & cheaper on retailers than on 300 million citizens.

And if a robust black market develops, depriving Leviathan of some of its sustenance...how is that a bad thing?

[lupinus]

Prices go up, but so does your take home income after they slash income taxes.  And if the income tax were 20% a good number of Americans would be seeing a net increase in what they actually get to spend/save/whatever.  It's simpler, it's less cumbersome, and you could very easily still work it so that returns would be possible if you so desired (or just make net taxes lower to begin with).

Oh, and thanks HankB, that 600 bucks is going to play a big part in my summer vacation with my girlfriend and her twin sister 

[Firethorn]

5. Economy, 2/3s dependent on consumer spending, goes poof.

Ah, you mean with post-income tax money?  I don't see how that'd be a real problem.

All more or less solvable by making the transition gradual, though it'd increase  the cost.

Let's say the final figure we need is 25% for the sales tax.  Do something like drop income tax by 5% for the year by either reducing rates or increasing deductables or whatever and increase the sales tax by 5%.  Do that each year until income taxes are gone and the sales tax is fully in place.

While it would spur spending during the lead-up to an increase, and result in a dearth afterwards, it'll be a more gradual affair.

[Manedwolf]

And I'd never buy anything in a "legitimate" store unless there was no other alternative.

25% is a hell of a lot of money. Buying and selling under the table would become the way of life here, just like it is in the third world.

[taurusowner]

Buying and selling under the table is already what goes on.  Go to your local "bad part of town" and take a look at the people driving $150,000 cars who claim to make less than $10,000 on their income taxes, if they even file taxes at all.  We already have a shadow economy of stolen good and drugs.  But even the thieves still need to buy things for real at some point.  A sales tax would be a way to get the free loaders and black marketeers to pay like the rest of us.

[Firethorn]

An income tax would never work.  People will work under the table left and right, the government will get no money, and we won't have any means of tracking people's work and ensure that they're reporting their wages as required.

Buying and selling under the table is already what goes on.  Go to your local "bad part of town" and take a look at the people driving $150,000 cars who claim to make less than $10,000 on their income taxes, if they even file taxes at all.  We already have a shadow economy of stolen good and drugs.  But even the thieves still need to buy things for real at some point.  A sales tax would be a way to get the free loaders and black marketeers to pay like the rest of us.

Agreed.  At some point there needs to be a legitimate business.  Even with a 25% tax, legitimate businesses will still dominate the market.  The simplest method I can think to do that would be to require a federal business license in order to buy goods without the tax.  In exchange you're subject to collecting sales tax and audits to make sure you do it right.

The implementations I've seen exempt used goods from sales tax, so YES, we would probably see a dramatic increase in durable vs throw away goods.  That good refrigerator might cost more than the cheap one, but I see major used goods markets popping up - and there's nothing wrong with that.

It would also help stop outsourcing by reducing operating costs(payroll taxes) in the USA.

[RevDisk]

People just never had a single class in how the economy works...

1. Huge sales tax implementation date is announced.
2. People buy and buy and buy and hoard up to that date. Stores move inventory, especially durable goods. Most durable goods are still made in the US. 
3. Day comes. Sales all but stop, supply chain full of dead inventory of durable goods. Collisions back to the factory levels, massive layoffs, etc. 
4. Black market trading among people who hoarded, to save 25% on items.
5. Economy, 2/3s dependent on consumer spending, goes poof.

Ayep. 

6. And the federales will then enact an income tax a couple years later.  In addition to the crushing sales tax.

[MrRezister]

It sure would stimulate a lot of saving and investing rather than spending though.

And as we all know, that's the WORST thing that can happen to the US economy.

Also, to hank - thanks, your "extra" taxes will go a long way to getting my kid's braces OFF, since they went on before our ortho realized that my insurance doesn't cover braces!  Big oops on my part...

[Sergeant Bob]

People just never had a single class in how the economy works...

1. Huge sales tax implementation date is announced.
2. People buy and buy and buy and hoard up to that date. Stores move inventory, especially durable goods. Most durable goods are still made in the US. 
3. Day comes. Sales all but stop, supply chain full of dead inventory of durable goods. Collisions back to the factory levels, massive layoffs, etc. 
4. Black market trading among people who hoarded, to save 25% on items.
5. Economy, 2/3s dependent on consumer spending, goes poof.

Ayep. 

6. And the federales will then enact an income tax a couple years later.  In addition to the crushing sales tax.

Zackly. The goobermint is gonna get our money one way or another.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Sure, the government will get their money one way or another.  But I'd much prefer the sales tax system, where I'd be able to invest and grow my money before the goobermint takes its cut.  They can have their share of my money after I'm done using it.