Bits

[kgbsquirrel]

Hey, I can read Welsh now!   

Crud, the secret's out. Now I can't use welsh to pass coded messages. 

[sanglant]

Crud, the secret's out. Now I can't use welsh to pass coded messages. 

and all your old messages, are now open.

[230RN]

Y'know, dang it, it does look Welshish.... Welshic... Welshly...?


And this makes total sense:

-----------------------------------------------

Burns on turnin' up a wee mousie's home
 
Wee, sleekit, cowrin, tim'rous beastie,
O, what a panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty
Wi bickering brattle!
I wad be laith to rin an' chase thee,
Wi' murdering pattle.

I'm truly sorry man's dominion
Has broken Nature's social union,
An' justifies that ill opinion
Which makes thee startle
At me, thy poor, earth born companion
An' fellow mortal!

I doubt na, whyles, but thou may thieve;
What then? poor beastie, thou maun live!
A daimen icker in a thrave
'S a sma' request;
I'll get a blessin wi' the lave,
An' never miss't.

Thy wee-bit housie, too, in ruin!
It's silly wa's the win's are strewin!
An' naething, now, to big a new ane,
O' foggage green!
An' bleak December's win's ensuin,
Baith snell an' keen!

Thou saw the fields laid bare an' waste,
An' weary winter comin fast,
An' cozie here, beneath the blast,
Thou thought to dwell,
Till crash! the cruel coulter past
Out thro' thy cell.

That wee bit heap o' leaves an' stibble,
Has cost thee monie a weary nibble!
Now thou's turned out, for a' thy trouble,
But house or hald,
To thole the winter's sleety dribble,
An' cranreuch cauld.

But Mousie, thou art no thy lane,
In proving foresight may be vain:
The best laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft agley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
For promis'd joy!

Still thou are blest, compared wi' me!
The present only toucheth thee:
But och! I backward cast my e'e,
On prospects drear!
An' forward, tho' I canna see,
I guess an' fear!

-----------------------------------------------


I can nae read that wi out thinkin' of a drear November day wi a threatenin' wind an' clouds scudding along hurryin' tae bring the blasts o' winter.

"An' forward, tho' I canna see,
I guess an' fear!"

Terry, 230RN

Ref:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_a_Mouse

[Tallpine]

Drear rainy August day today here - even got a fire going in the woodstove.

Ah well, the fire danger should be low for a while...

[Iain]

Y'know, dang it, it does look Welshish.... Welshic... Welshly...?

Brythonic is the term he wants isn't it Tallpine?

I laughed out loud by the way. (I did not lol)

[Tallpine]

Brythonic is the term he wants isn't it Tallpine?

Tha.

Ach, chan eil Cymreag agam.

[230RN]

"Brythonic" sounds like a new gee-whiz cell phone thingie beastie.

[kgbsquirrel]

Reminds me of this...  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM45TACI4H4   

[Perd Hapley]

I just found it interesting that this:

Crud, the secret's out. Now I can't use welsh to pass coded messages. 

was followed by this apt quotation from Burns:

The best laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft agley,

[Tallpine]

"Brythonic" sounds like a new gee-whiz cell phone thingie beastie.

Describes the native people of Britain (and their language) before the Romans, Angles, Saxons, Normans, etc arrived.

Nearest surviving tongue in wide use today is Welsh.

Somewhat related to Gaelic (Irish/Scots).  Welsh is "P-Celtic" and Gaelic is "Q-Celtic."

Now, there's a bit of information for you 

[230RN]

Actually, that's interesting.  Where'd the "P" and the "Q" come from?

I'm thinking of the expression, "Mind your Ps and Qs."

[Perd Hapley]

I doubt there's a connection. In the phrase you're talking about, P and Q stand for peace and quiet.

So how did this thread go from bits to Brits? 

[Tallpine]

Actually, that's interesting.  Where'd the "P" and the "Q" come from?

I'm thinking of the expression, "Mind your Ps and Qs."

It's a phonetic morphing.

I dunno why it isn't P and K ... 

For example:  ceann == pen  (as in "Pendragon")

[230RN]

Fistful, my impression of the meaning of "minding your Ps and Qs" was similar to "crossing your Ts and dotting your Is." 

... maybe it's because of the symmetry in the lower case:  p   q  ?

Anyhow, Tallpine, I still don't see why it should be "Welsh is 'P-Celtic' and Gaelic is 'Q-Celtic.'"  I can see Q being used as a "K," so okay, that's enough to keep my etymological neurons happy, but what would the "P" stand for?

Terry, 230RN

[Regolith]

The etymology I heard of for "Mind your p's and q's" was "mind your pints and quarts" and originated in pubs in England.

Here's wikipedia's take:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_your_p%27s_and_q%27s

One origin story of "mind your Ps and Qs" comes from English pubs and taverns of the seventeenth century. Bartenders would keep a watch on the alcohol consumption of the patrons; keeping an eye on the pints and quarts that were consumed. As a reminder to the patrons, the bartender would recommend they "mind their Ps and Qs".[1] This may also have been a reminder to bartenders not to confuse the two units, written as "p" and "q" on the tally slate.[2]

A second origin story comes from early printing presses. Printers placed individual letters on a typeset to print a page of text. The letters were reversed, making it easy to mistake lowercase p's and q's in setting the type. A reminder to stay watchful of the details could have come from this time as well.[1] In a similar setting, this expression has been attributed as an adage for teaching children to spell.[2]

[Tallpine]

Anyhow, Tallpine, I still don't see why it should be "Welsh is 'P-Celtic' and Gaelic is 'Q-Celtic.'"  I can see Q being used as a "K," so okay, that's enough to keep my etymological neurons happy, but what would the "P" stand for?

Sorry I didn't make myself clear...

The P sound in many Brythonic words migrated to a K sound in Gaelic (or maybe the other way around - I forget...).  In other words, many words are basically the same in the two language families, except a K (c) is substituted for a P, or vice-versa.

For instance, the word for "head" is ceann in Gaelic, but pen in Welsh.

Does that make any sense 

[Perd Hapley]

It makes sense if you've seen consonants shift like that in other languages.  For example, the "s" in school or state becomes an "e" in the French ecole (school) or etat (state).  Or perhaps it happened the other way around. 

Regardless, Jim was right.  All them Frenchmen ought to just talk like men. 

[Tallpine]

It makes sense if you've seen consonants shift like that in other languages.  For example, the "s" in school or state becomes an "e" in the French ecole (school) or etat (state).  Or perhaps it happened the other way around. 

Regardless, Jim was right.  All them Frenchmen ought to just talk like men. 

Like in American English - where all the R's have migrated from New England to Texas ? 


French seems to have some distant connection to Welsh/Gaelic.  Supposedly, French is a combination (collision!) of the Celtic Gaul tongue and Latin.  There is also a theory that of the compund negation (ne **** pa or however you spell it), the first part landed ni in Eirinn, and the second part cha landed in Alba with the consonant shift.

[CNYCacher]

All them Frenchmen ought to just talk like men. 

You gonna take an bus' em over da head?

[230RN]

Video clip reminds me of a story.

It's kind of an auditory joke, but I'll try it here in text:

American in a bar hears the guy next to him ordering a drink in a very heavy English accent.  He turns and asks, "Oh, are you British?"

Man replies, in a very heavy upper-class "peerage" accent:  "Are yew seh-dious?  Fye were any maw Br-tish, I wouldn't be able to speak at awl."

Meh.  I don't think it works in writing.

Forget it.

I'm not signing this one so nobody will know who posted it.