Author Topic: Mobile homes are financial traps  (Read 8644 times)

MillCreek

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Mobile homes are financial traps
« on: April 05, 2015, 10:11:53 AM »
http://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/the-mobile-home-trap-how-a-warren-buffett-empire-preys-on-the-poor/

I had no idea about this. Mobile homes are not that common in this area since there is not much cheap land here.
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MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


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Jamisjockey

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2015, 10:16:59 AM »
Ignorance is curable.  I'm unsympathetic to people who make bad financial decisions without researching. 
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

230RN

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2015, 10:54:56 AM »
^ That  statement presumes the research is available.  I bought a mobile home in about 1986 as a temporary place after a divorce  --pre-net search engines, and indeed before the net was available to everyone.

Looked like a good deal, comfy, close to work, good neighbors... and the metal roof provided a good ground plane for my vertical antenna.(!)  

Stayed there four years, then moved out of supercilious and snotty Boulder CO.  By then the quality of neighbors had declined considerably and I got rid of it at a loss --dollar wise.  Yet, as an interim place, it was ideal --despite the rule about buying what appreciates, leasing what depreciates.  It was more like cheap rent in the interim, even with the dollar loss on re-sale.

It wasn't as if, at the time, you could walk into the library and thumb through the card index for "mobile home depreciation," after all.  And it wasn't as if you could predict that the city of Boulder would put so many restrictions on student rental properties that housing became so expensive that students were moving in to mobile homes in groups and trashing up the parks.

So your statement is only true "if the research is available" and all possible external variables remain the same.

Terry
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lupinus

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Re:
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2015, 10:58:46 AM »
It also assumes said company hasn't set itself up to *expletive deleted*ck as good and hard as humanly possible.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2015, 11:00:35 AM »
Phone calls to find better interest rates.  Visits to non profit credit counselors. Checking one's own credit before attempting to buy.  Walking away from a bad deal.  It ain't *expletive deleted*ing rocket science.
And these days, every special snow flake seems to think that "ownership" is a right.  

It also assumes said company hasn't set itself up to *expletive deleted*ck as good and hard as humanly possible.

Um, I thought that was always the assumption?  The lenders are in bed with the builders and the Realtors are in bed with the appraisers. 
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

Monkeyleg

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2015, 11:11:43 AM »
But I though Warren Buffet was looking out for the best interests of the little people.

Ben

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2015, 11:41:21 AM »
But I though Warren Buffet was looking out for the best interests of the little people.

Funny so many of the comments at the site are people making the immediate assumption about the rich conservatives screwing people.  ;/

I can see the system being amenable to catching "low information" buyers who might move into a mobile home park and who either have just not had any financial experience, or have been really bad at it.

I've actually been contemplating modular homes as a possibility in my retirement property search. Many properties I've seen already have them on site (often currently owned by retirees), and I've though a bit, given the current situation with my dad, about buying a piece of farmland with no structures on it, and just sticking a smaller modular on it to use for being there part of the year while still having to go back and forth. After my situation allows me to move fulltime, I could just keep it as a guest house, and build a regular home next to it.

Though from what I've researched (not extensively), outside of what looks like a mess regarding loans, which I wouldn't get, the modulars from reputable manufacturers are pretty well built, and while inferior to standard homes in some ways, are superior in others (such as energy efficiency). Certainly smaller homes can be a better choice for retirees. For those living somewhat in the sticks (Tallpine sticks versus 10 miles out of town), there is likely a bigger delta in cost differences between having a modular delivered, and the minimal construction prep needed, to having a boat load of different contractors charge extra for travel time and material transport.
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lee n. field

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2015, 12:54:50 PM »
Ignorance is curable.  I'm unsympathetic to people who make bad financial decisions without researching. 

Ignorance is curable.  Stupidity isn't. 
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2015, 12:59:00 PM »
Ignorance is curable.  Stupidity isn't. 

stupidity is usually a symptom of ignorance. 
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

MechAg94

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2015, 02:33:05 PM »
If I was selling a rifle that was worth $500 and I was able to find someone who would pay $700, should I turn that down or refuse to sell it at the higher price because that person is ignorant? 
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roo_ster

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2015, 04:11:07 PM »
I think folk need to do due diligence.  OTOH, I despise those who set up overly complex systems designed to ensnare the less-bright or less experienced.  Yes, it pretty much does become an unethical conspiracy to screw the left-hand side of the IQ bell curve.

Maybe the best compromise is to let unscrupulous lenders set up such complex systems, but also let locals beat the snot out of them when they become abusive and then run their families out of town with a nice slathering of tar and feathers?  Make it less attractive to hook up with such companies in some fashion.

This sort of unethical/abusive system has history going WAY back.  In a higher-trust, less diverse community, folks will look out for their less quick-witted neighbors and attenuate the worst of things (without completely eliminating them--horse/water).  The sort of people who set up and prosper from these sort of overly complex systems thrive in diverse, low-trust communities. 
Regards,

roo_ster

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vaskidmark

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2015, 06:35:27 PM »
I read and studied everything that has been written here and remain confused.

What can you buy, with the exception of a mobile home, that you can get replaced with a totally furnished new model every two or three years at the outside?

The only other possibility I can think of is an oceanfront home along the East Coast (well, up to NC for sure).

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lee n. field

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2015, 08:18:32 PM »
stupidity is usually a symptom of ignorance. 

One can be intelligent, but ignorant (lacking information).  In that case, ignorance can be fixed.

If one is both stupid and ignorant, piling on more information is less likely to help.

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Brad Johnson

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2015, 09:32:33 PM »
Not to be a Sour Sam, but someone suddenly "discovering" that mobile homes are a depreciating asset is like someone suddenly "discovering" that smoking contributes to cancer. Not a real big secret, that.

Brad
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2015, 09:40:57 PM »
Not to be a Sour Sam, but someone suddenly "discovering" that mobile homes are a depreciating asset is like someone suddenly "discovering" that smoking contributes to cancer. Not a real big secret, that.

Brad

my issue on the depreciation front is the fact that they will "reposes" a trailer by destroying it, rather than suck the "loss" or just make adjustments and keep getting at least some money.

I'm sorry, but if the thing isn't worth anything to take back, why bother? Yes, that means someone gets to default on what they owed and keep the thing, but the other way just seems wasteful. =|
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roo_ster

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2015, 10:01:17 PM »
my issue on the depreciation front is the fact that they will "reposes" a trailer by destroying it, rather than suck the "loss" or just make adjustments and keep getting at least some money.

I'm sorry, but if the thing isn't worth anything to take back, why bother? Yes, that means someone gets to default on what they owed and keep the thing, but the other way just seems wasteful. =|

From their point of view, they also get to displace someone and decrease the supply.  If you are vertically integrated in any way  (one or more of: MH builder, seller, financier, lease lots) it makes sense in a "destroy the grain to drive up the price of grain" way.

Yeah, not a nice thing to do, though.
Regards,

roo_ster

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lee n. field

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2015, 10:10:47 PM »
Not to be a Sour Sam, but someone suddenly "discovering" that mobile homes are a depreciating asset is like someone suddenly "discovering" that smoking contributes to cancer. Not a real big secret, that.

Brad

One would think it would be obvious.

We spent 1979-91 in two different mobile homes.  It never did strike me as that good of an option, especially for long term.  It was just what we could afford.  A regular house might last well over a century.  What I could see around me was trailers built in the 60s, beat to heck in the '80s.

(We got nothin' out of our doublewide when we left.   Paid someone to cut it up and junk it.)
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roo_ster

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2015, 10:42:05 PM »
When our church and school finally had the cash on hand to build a new brick & mortar building to replace the "modular" supplemental building, we lucked out and were able to freecycle it.  Would have cost us $15k to demo and haul it off.  Instead, some even poorer school/church with a mobile home delivery truck service parishioner solved both out problems.

Regards,

roo_ster

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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2015, 10:52:07 PM »
One would think it would be obvious.

We spent 1979-91 in two different mobile homes.  It never did strike me as that good of an option, especially for long term.  It was just what we could afford.  A regular house might last well over a century.  What I could see around me was trailers built in the 60s, beat to heck in the '80s.

(We got nothin' out of our doublewide when we left.   Paid someone to cut it up and junk it.)

weirdly enough, the ones built in the 70s are not as crappy as you'd think.

at least this one isn't.

The floor and the stuff over the frame is all crap, but the frame itself is better built than a lot of actual houses. It's sad, because the frame is finally starting to have weaknesses from neglect. If we had pulled out floors and fixed the roof ten years ago, I'm betting this thing would stand another 40 years.

Basically, the obvious stuff was built to completely desingrate and force the buyer to replace it, but they aren't as crappy as you think if you pull the crap off and replace it.
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Firethorn

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2015, 11:00:53 PM »
Lee, some of that depreciation is that you expect to do work on a traditional home.  Yes, even to the point of ripping out and replacing walls.

I have some philosophical differences with the way the market 'works', and I see the 'common way of thinking' sold by the real estate agents and everybody else as the reason behind the housing market collapse.

So I'll list some points:
1.  Houses do NOT actually 'appreciate' in value in most cases.  What they actually do is depreciate slower than inflation.
2.  Houses can maintain and increase their value through renovation and maintenance work.  IE you put more resources into the home, it becomes worth more.
3.  What generally appreciates is the land the house is on.  But this is only true when the population is increasing, or an area is 'popular'.  See Detroit for were the land can't even keep it's value.
4.  You are generally far safer viewing your home as a capital investment for the most economical means of shelter of a given quality.  IE 'it's cheaper than renting', than you are viewing it as part of your retirement 'nest egg' with the intent of moving to a cheaper place when you retire and the kids are out of the home.

Now, consider a mobile home.  
1.  Generally speaking, the owner doesn't own the land underneath the mobile home, so any appreciation the land doesn't help them.
2.  Because it's viewed as a depreciating asset and is generally owned by poorer people, the maintenance doesn't get done.
3.  Because they're generally purchased by poorer people, not only does the maintenance not get done, but it's built cheaper in the first place.  Not necessarily true today - look up 'manufactured home' vs 'mobile home'.
4.  The better constructed homes of today tend to retain mobility better - so moving one from a trailer park to a permanent spot that you actually own is more possible.

So yeah, trailer homes* can be a trap.  But if you're aware of their quirks, they can be a worthy choice over a traditional home in certain circumstances.

That being said, you could and CAN purchase a mobile home that is as well or better constructed than your standard on-site built house today, but perception is a thing.

*I'm not sure of the terminology, but here's my take, and why I consider 'mobile home' something of a misnomer.
Mobile home:  To me, these are the 'homes' that are actually built to be moved while occupied.  Some have engine, driver's seats and all that, some are designed to be towed.  They're built so you can put at least tens of thousands of miles on them.  Due to this they're more limited in size, and appliances have to be special built to take the vibration and such.  Cabinets will have locks or 'strong' magnets to keep them from flying open while being moved.  They'll have a septic tank and water supply 'built in'.
Trailer home:  A step closer in construction to a normal home, they'll actually have drywall, more normal appliances, and are designed to be hooked up to a water and septic system on a continuous basis.  Generally not worth the effort to move once they've been in place for a few years, though the better constructed modern ones may be.  Moving is much more of a pain, because while they've been left on the 'trailer', the trailer itself was probably cheap, the tires and maybe even the axles need to be replaced, the utility lines removed and secured, everything inside secured or removed, etc...  Can also be a 'double wide' in that you match 2 trailer sized segments together.  Otherwise they tend to be rather small for a modern family.

Manufactured home:  Yet another step up in quality, these homes can count as the same as a on-site built home, and are often actually built 'tougher'.  These ones are taken OFF their trailer at the install site, and placed on a permanent foundation.  Moving one after the fact would only be a shade easier than moving a traditional house(which can be done). They often have basements, garages are built along one side, etc...

brimic

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2015, 08:39:36 AM »
Quote
I have some philosophical differences with the way the market 'works', and I see the 'common way of thinking' sold by the real estate agents and everybody else as the reason behind the housing market collapse.

So I'll list some points:
1.  Houses do NOT actually 'appreciate' in value in most cases.  What they actually do is depreciate slower than inflation.
2.  Houses can maintain and increase their value through renovation and maintenance work.  IE you put more resources into the home, it becomes worth more.
3.  What generally appreciates is the land the house is on.  But this is only true when the population is increasing, or an area is 'popular'.  See Detroit for were the land can't even keep it's value.
4.  You are generally far safer viewing your home as a capital investment for the most economical means of shelter of a given quality.  IE 'it's cheaper than renting', than you are viewing it as part of your retirement 'nest egg' with the intent of moving to a cheaper place when you retire and the kids are out of the home.

+1, #4 is spot on.
I view a house as a long term rental where I'll get some of my rent money back when I sell it. A house is about the worst 'investment' there is, and the word 'investment' is a real stretch of the word as applied to home 'ownership.' (Another misnomer).
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2015, 09:40:13 AM »
A fool and his money are soon parted.  Nothing new about that, and it has very little to do with mobile homes.



brimic

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2015, 09:55:28 AM »
A fool and his money are soon parted.  Nothing new about that, and it has very little to do with mobile homes.




Or pay day loans, or title loans....
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tokugawa

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2015, 12:27:16 PM »
A cheap mobile can be a useful thing to live in when money is tight- I spent years in one, saving to pay off property. Kept the rain off.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Mobile homes are financial traps
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2015, 12:38:35 PM »
It can certainly be done right. 
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”