Author Topic: Doing Away With Flush Toilets  (Read 8625 times)

Ben

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Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« on: August 05, 2007, 02:26:37 PM »
They can have my flush toilet when they pry my cold dead butt from it, or else when they invent a Stark Trek Phaser toilet.

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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291885,00.html

Study: Flush Toilets May Need to Be Disposed Of

Friday , August 03, 2007
By Corey Binns

LS
ADVERTISEMENT

The Western World's dependence on flush toilets could be its environmental downfall.

Toilets that use less water, such as the "squat toilet" in which one squats over a hole in the ground, are prevalent in parts of Asia, Europe and Africa.

But a new historical study suggests that after decades of flushing, it will take radical innovations for the mainstream West to adopt any new system.

"Most people can hardly imagine that other ways of handling human waste have ever existed," said study author Maj-Britt Quitzau, an environmental sociologist with the National Environmental Research Institute of Denmark. "But actually, systems did exist prior to the flushing toilet where human waste was collected within the cities and re-used in farming areas."

" Click here to visit FOXNews.com's Human Body Center.

Scientists have long known that flushing away human waste comes with environmental consequences, such as using precious, potable water.

Each year, a typical person will use almost 4,000 gallons of drinking water to flush away 75 pounds of feces and 130 gallons of urine, according to a 2001 study by the Swedish International Development Cooperation Agency.

While drinking-water shortages plague millions in such places as India and in some African nations, Westerners continue to oppose alternatives to the flushing toilet.

'Earth toilets'

To understand the West's preference for flushing toilets, Quitzau surveyed historical research on attitudes toward human excrement and the technological development of water and sewage systems.

She then analyzed statistical data on current attempts to introduce alternative solutions.

The research suggests that in order to succeed, toilets designed to save water must hurdle our culture's long history of city planning and well-intentioned obsession with hygiene.

Westerners have not always been addicted to flushing toilets.

In the 1850s, for example, a recycling "earth toilet" was as American as apple pie.

It consisted of a seat placed over a container filled with dry earth. After use, more dry earth was piled into the container.

Instead of throwing away the waste in the container, farmers put it to use in agricultural fields as compost.

Convenience and city planners

However, with the introduction of sewer systems in major cities and new moral attitudes toward human waste products, the labor-intensive method lost out to the convenience of the flush, according to Quitzau's research, detailed in the August issue of the journal Technology in Society.

The flushing toilets required water and sewage system to facilitate easy and enclosed removal of waste.

Even with its added expense, Quitzau said, "city planners and health personnel became some of the principal spokesmen for flushing toilets. They were troubled about the problems that growing urbanization brought along in the Western cities at this time."

In the city of Stockholm alone, the number of water-flushing toilets rose from 127 to more than 80,000 between 1890 and 1925, according to a study reported in a Swedish Science Press journal.

At the same time, environmentally sound earth closets, considered less sanitary, went extinct.

Composting toilets

Although many Westerners would never consider turning in their flushing toilet for a night pot or a cesspool, some pioneers are thinking outside the bowl.

Composting toilets (which rely on bacteria to convert fecal matter into fertilized soil) require no water, and urine-separating toilets rely on a minimal amount of water to wash waste into one of two compartments in the bowl.

The technologies remain relatively unpopular because people in developed countries are programmed  and their houses and cities are built  to flush it all away.

"Perhaps sometime in the future," said Quitzau, "people in Western cities could accept the idea of using human urine and feces as resources instead of as wastes."

Until then, the unsanitary stigma will haunt some of the modern replacements for water-flushing toilets.

Quitzau says composting toilets are unfavorable because, although much improved technologically, they still remind people of ancient, unappetizing waterless technologies, such as the earth closet or outhouses.

Vacuum toilet

Building flush-free toilets to satisfy the masses will not be simple and, unlike the composting toilet, may require mimicking toilets that flush and must be user-friendly, Quitzau said.

"This is not something which can be suddenly changed," she said. "Houses are built with respect to flushing toilets, not with respect to composting toilets requiring a collection chamber in the basement. Urban planners are taught about sewage systems and not sustainable toilet systems, where human urine and feces are collected and transported to farming areas."

Currently, toilet technologies are focused on convenience, comfort and design, rather than sustainability, Quitzau says.

However, the vacuum toilet  familiar to airplane passengers  is one technique that has some potential for appealing to Westerners stuck in their old flushing ways. The noisy vacuum toilet functions similarly to a flushing toilet.

Yet the environmental costs of the energy-sucking suction may not be worth the tradeoff.

The most likely candidate to replace the flushing toilet will most likely incorporate the convenience of flushing toilets with the sustainability of composting toilets.

"The stability of flushing toilets is still strong, and it will take both technological advancements and changes in social and cultural patterns in order for more sustainable toilet solutions to gain a stronger foothold," Quitzau said.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

never_retreat

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2007, 02:58:45 PM »
Molon Labe
Thats all I have to say.

I think I'm going to pick up another non low water toilet next time I go to canada just to spite this guy.
I needed a mod to change my signature because the concept of "family friendly" eludes me.
Just noticed that a mod changed my signature. How long ago was that?
A few months-mods

MechAg94

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2007, 03:00:55 PM »
Quote
While drinking-water shortages plague millions in such places as India and in some African nations, Westerners continue to oppose alternatives to the flushing toilet.
And of course, every gallon of water we save will magically be transported to India and Africa for use.   rolleyes

The house I grew up in had a septic system in the back yard.  All waste water was put back into the ground.  Waste was recycled into the earth.  The water eventually made it back to the water table deeper under ground.  No waste there at all.

There is no way farmers would come close to using all the human waste generated.  
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2007, 03:02:48 PM »
Quote
The research suggests that in order to succeed, toilets designed to save water must hurdle our culture's long history of city planning and well-intentioned obsession with hygiene.
Obsession with hygiene?  Is he kidding? 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

grislyatoms

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2007, 03:02:51 PM »
Quote
There is no way farmers would come close to using all the human waste generated.  


Especially around places like Democratic Underground, PETA, Dianne Feinstein's house... grin
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MechAg94

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2007, 03:05:51 PM »
Don't the dates he is throwing around also happen to correspond to our developing knowledge of bacteria and viruses in relation to desease?  There was a reason cities started using flush toilets and sewage systems to handle waste.  Can you imagine what one of the top ten major cities would be like if everyone maintained essentially compost systems for their waste? 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

ilbob

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2007, 03:06:40 PM »
Quote
While drinking-water shortages plague millions in such places as India and in some African nations, Westerners continue to oppose alternatives to the flushing toilet.
And of course, every gallon of water we save will magically be transported to India and Africa for use.   rolleyes

The house I grew up in had a septic system in the back yard.  All waste water was put back into the ground.  Waste was recycled into the earth.  The water eventually made it back to the water table deeper under ground.  No waste there at all.

There is no way farmers would come close to using all the human waste generated.  

Septic systems are the most environmentally friendly way to deal with human waste. They are unpopular or impractical in urban areas because they require a fair amount of land area per user.

Farmers could use all the human waste they could get and more, but the problem is collecting it. The problem with modern sewer systems is that the human waste is commingled with industrial waste and thus is not usable as fertilizer.
bob

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Fjolnirsson

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2007, 03:14:33 PM »
I don't know, I rather like it when socialists admit they are working to return us to the Dark Ages.
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Standing Wolf

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2007, 03:29:20 PM »
Oh. I guess the sky is falling again. The end of civilization as we know it.
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280plus

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2007, 03:38:11 PM »
Pass the TP will ya?  grin
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wmenorr67

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2007, 03:39:24 PM »
But only one square. grin
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MechAg94

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2007, 04:19:14 PM »
Quote
While drinking-water shortages plague millions in such places as India and in some African nations, Westerners continue to oppose alternatives to the flushing toilet.
And of course, every gallon of water we save will magically be transported to India and Africa for use.   rolleyes

The house I grew up in had a septic system in the back yard.  All waste water was put back into the ground.  Waste was recycled into the earth.  The water eventually made it back to the water table deeper under ground.  No waste there at all.

There is no way farmers would come close to using all the human waste generated.  

Septic systems are the most environmentally friendly way to deal with human waste. They are unpopular or impractical in urban areas because they require a fair amount of land area per user.

Farmers could use all the human waste they could get and more, but the problem is collecting it. The problem with modern sewer systems is that the human waste is commingled with industrial waste and thus is not usable as fertilizer.
Okay, if they would focus on ways of changing the way waste is collected, that would be fine.  Sort of like working on recycling trash.  I think the article may have been trying point out that there are other ways of doing this, but the smug quotes and narrow minded historical references didn't do much for the argument.
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MechAg94

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2007, 04:19:41 PM »
Pass the TP will ya?  grin
You must use only your left hand. 
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Thor

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2007, 04:40:57 PM »
We had a Toto toilet installed in our house when it was built. It'll handle most anything that's dumped in it and it's low water, too. A lack of foresight and cost made us install regular low flow toilets in the other bathrooms. They just don't do the job. We also have our own well and septic.

I think that folks are forgetting about the myriad if diseases that come with human waste biosolids. That spinach e-coli outbreak was pretty much tracked back to human and bovine waste being dumped on the spinach. These eco-Nazis really need to get a clue!! I'm all for being ecologically friendly whenever possible, but this idea is just absurd and will cause illnesses that we haven't experienced in ages!!
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2007, 05:19:01 PM »
Molon Labe
Thats all I have to say.

I think I'm going to pick up another non low water toilet next time I go to canada just to spite this guy.

The 1.6 gallons per flush toilets are a disaster. They work okay for #1, but for #2 they require a minimum of two flush cycles to clear the bowl, thereby negating the whole purpose of limiting the flush cycle to 1.6 gallons.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2007, 05:37:55 PM »
Quote
The research suggests that in order to succeed, toilets designed to save water must hurdle our culture's long history of city planning and well-intentioned obsession with hygiene.

So the author's French?   rolleyes
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Bigjake

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2007, 05:43:16 PM »
ilbob  said:

Quote
Farmers could use all the human waste they could get and more, but the problem is collecting it. The problem with modern sewer systems is that the human waste is commingled with industrial waste and thus is not usable as fertilizer.

Wrong. 

We currently have enough animal waste that money has to be spent putting lime down to neutralize too much dairy cow/horse *expletive deleted*it.  nice try though.

edited to cite quoted member

Ben

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2007, 06:07:10 PM »
Quote
We currently have enough animal waste that money has to be spent putting lime down to neutralize too much dairy cow/horse *expletive deleted*it.

This may vary depending on the part of the country you're in. I can say that for CA, my folks get prime dollars leasing some of their land out to a local dairy farmer. The bonus money is for letting him use cow manure to fertilize the land. Otherwise his cows produce so much he can't get rid of it, and in CA it's considered some kind of HAZMAT apparently, and his only other option for the manure he can't use, store (there's a set limit) on his farm, or otherwise get rid of locally is having it shipped out of state (cheaper than taking to the dump here).

Both my parents grew up in small villages in Germany, that when the US probably had 90% of households on sewer or septic, were still using outhouses. My dad's family actually had the outhouse in the house. It was on the second floor, and everything dropped into a "compost closet" on the first floor that had an outside access door for getting rid of the waste. He said no matter how you sealed it, the smell was still there. I told him about this story, and he just laughed and said nobody who ever lived it would ever think of going back.  laugh
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K Frame

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2007, 06:40:51 PM »
My coworkers can't even hit the flush toilets at the office.

I can't even imagine what kind of hideous fiasco "squat" toilets would bring about.
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Marnoot

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2007, 06:43:16 PM »
My coworkers can't even hit the flush toilets at the office.

I can't even imagine what kind of hideous fiasco "squat" toilets would bring about.

QFT

Office squat toilets would cause me to drive home from work any time nature called. I have no desire to squat in someone else's failed attempts to get it all in the hole.

Fjolnirsson

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2007, 06:47:44 PM »
Holy Hell! I hadn't even considered public restrooms with squat toilets.  Look at the shape they get into now, with seats...Eww.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2007, 07:05:30 PM »
Quote
"Most people can hardly imagine that other ways of handling human waste have ever existed," said study author Maj-Britt Quitzau, an environmental sociologist with the National Environmental Research Institute of Denmark.


Cause no one's ever heard of an outhouse, right?  Idiot. 
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RocketMan

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2007, 09:17:26 PM »
I used squat toilets on a few of my business trips to Japan. Ain't no way I'm doing it here.
They can't make me do squat!  grin
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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2007, 09:33:23 PM »
Wouldn't mind so much myself, if they also installed for the next 100 years superheated water hoses to decon/clean the surrounding area while people got used to it.  (as much for myself as for everyone else)

At least there will be plenty of floor drains.   laugh
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El Tejon

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Re: Doing Away With Flush Toilets
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2007, 02:37:22 AM »
Well, squat toilets would keep people stretched out.  People sit too much as it is.

The author needs a trip to rural China and find out the pleasures of nightsoil use, especially it hot and humid rural Chinese countryside.

I have read Mao to George Lincoln Rockwell and there were all fixated on human waste.  What is it with authoritarian/fascist types and *expletive deleted*it?
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