Noisy church creates neighborhood protests

[MillCreek]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015208785_noisychurch02m.html

This church is a mile away from me.  I am far enough away that I cannot hear them.  An interesting dilemma between their First Amendment rights versus courtesy for your neighbors.  Some interesting comments as well. 

[RevDisk]

Are sonic area denial weapons covered under the First Amendment?   Be a good way of teaching the church to turn down the volume.

[MechAg94]

Are we now debating whether or not rock concerts are considered religious expression? 

[lee n. field]

Much to be said, but I'm grumpy, growly, depressed and underslept.  Later.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i think i'd umleash a whole raft of stuff on the preacher.  audits by the irs being one

[brimic]

i think i'd umleash a whole raft of stuff on the preacher.  audits by the irs being one

Or have the BATFE burn it down- it might be a cult.

[vaskidmark]

Paging El Teon, Ned Hamford, Bridgerunner and the rest of the associates at APS Legal Group, LLC*.  I say we get a professional sound survey done, and then hit the church with the choice of staying within the legal sound limits (something about rendering Ceasar, IIRC) or facing damages for maintaining a common and/or attractive nuisance.  We've got a few folks scattered around APS who can provide diagnoses/assessments of how the neighbors have suffered both physically and psychologically since the music started.

Except for WBC I usually do not suggest suing the daylights out of churches who behave obnoxiously, but these folks seem to be asking for it.  Publically stating that your sound system is set higher than the legal limit is reckless endangerment as far as I'm concerned.

stay safe.

*LLC = Lucifer's Legal Crew

[roo_ster]

I'd have to go there to witness for myself to determine where I stand on this particular issue.  But, in general, I think it best to apply the "don't be an ass" policy and not be as loud as the law allows.  Pastor Rock Star might want to investigate such a policy.

I also live near a loud venue: a Texas public high school football stadium(1).  I don't mind it, except for the ridiculous volume they use on the PA system, which reverberates for 1/4 mile.  I don;t mind the occasional roar of the crowd or the half time bands, even though I can hear them, too.

Don;t get me started on the "rock & roll and gospel of self-help" style churches.


(1) Biggest waste of tax dollars you ever saw.  Freaking huge.

[MillCreek]

I am going to have to walk down there on Sunday, stand outside the sanctuary and hear for myself just how loud it is.

[Perd Hapley]

I am going to have to walk down there on Sunday, stand outside the sanctuary and hear for myself just how loud it is.

Let us know if it is loud enough to convert you from your wayward heatheness.

[Ned Hamford]

"Lovick believes the county's sound ordinance is difficult to interpret. On one hand, anything that disturbs someone can be considered a nuisance; and on the other, it sets the residential noise level at 55."
 
Does anyone actually have a problem understanding this?  Disturbing someone is a nuisance, if you're at 55 or over you are presumed to be disturbing someone.  

"You have said 'just turn it down,' but I want to worship in the way I want to worship and I don't want someone else to tell me how I can do it."
 
I hate to think of church members whose ethos reject the notion of harming others as being a bad thing... One thing to self harm, but loud noises causes hearing loss and lots of bass causes things to shake, well, damaging everything.  
We weren't here first, we are doing something new, but by golly, how dare you take offense at our blatant disturbing of the public peace and your right to quiet enjoyment.  

If it were me, I'd file a tort, and failing that, set up my own boom box set to 54 dB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-NOZU2iPA8

And a handy chart.  55Db is the point in which you've got to start raising your own voice to be heard.
http://www.asha.org/public/hearing/Noise/
My phone has an app that tells me how loud things are too  

And one more edit as I'm still killing time for dinner... the local ordinance
http://www.co.snohomish.wa.us/Documents/Departments/Council/county_code/CountyCodeTitle10.pdf
It is really straight forward, there is even a chart.  An amusing bit of small print, ice cream trucks are exempted from much of it :)

[bedlamite]

55dB as a noise limit is absurd. Normal conversation exceeds that at about 60dB, and a when the Garbage truck drives by once a week it's about 80-85dB. That said, since the cops are promptly doing nothing, I think I'd get all the neighbors together and have everyone put their stereo speakers in an upstairs window pointing toward this church and have everyone crank up a different radio station.

[MillCreek]

Let us know if it is loud enough to convert you from your wayward heatheness.

Methodists are wayward heathens?   

[230RN]

Surely, someone can find a Biblical quote regarding the beauty of silence.

[Ned Hamford]

55dB as a noise limit is absurd. Normal conversation exceeds that at about 60dB, and a when the Garbage truck drives by once a week it's about 80-85dB. That said, since the cops are promptly doing nothing, I think I'd get all the neighbors together and have everyone put their stereo speakers in an upstairs window pointing toward this church and have everyone crank up a different radio station.

Unless I'm mistaken, its not the measure at point of origin, its at the nuisance point.  55dB over there is no problem, its when its 55dB inside the bedroom of the next house over, and that continuously. 

[Perd Hapley]

Methodists are wayward heathens?   

Heh. Depends on whom you ask. There are whole denominations that split off from the "heathen worldliness" of the wayward Methodist church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiness_movement


Of course, I was just joking. See?     

[Lee]

A friend of mine had the same issue for years...cept it was Rap not Rock.  The thump of the base was constant.  It was a losing battle and he ended up selling his house.

[lee n. field]

Surely, someone can find a Biblical quote regarding the beauty of silence.

Most I'm finding are pretty grim.

When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.

From John's Apocalypse.  And you know how that ends.

This one's pretty good:

But the LORD is in his holy temple;
let all the earth keep silence before him.

From Habakkuk, a contemporary of Jeremiah, more or less, which means he was prophesyin' scant decades before the Babylonian S*** was seriously going to hit the Judah-ite fan.

[KD5NRH]

"Gold Creek is a Christian Church and we believe our First Amendment right is freedom of religion," Ehoff wrote to Ronglien. "You have said 'just turn it down,' but I want to worship in the way I want to worship and I don't want someone else to tell me how I can do it."

Anybody else feeling a call from God to go worship in front of this guy's house with airhorns at 3AM?

[Viking]

Anybody else feeling a call from God to go worship in front of this guy's house with airhorns at 3AM?

Any laws about using blank-firing guns in public? If not, there are some full-auto versions to use .

[Jamisjockey]

55dB as a noise limit is absurd. Normal conversation exceeds that at about 60dB, and a when the Garbage truck drives by once a week it's about 80-85dB. That said, since the cops are promptly doing nothing, I think I'd get all the neighbors together and have everyone put their stereo speakers in an upstairs window pointing toward this church and have everyone crank up a different radio station.

Playing the sound from a good porn. Preferably Petrodactyl porn.

[41magsnub]

Anybody else feeling a call from God to go worship in front of this guy's house with airhorns at 3AM?

I like the idea from the article comments...  create a "Church of the Immaculate Air Raid Siren" next door!

[Hawkmoon]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015208785_noisychurch02m.html

This church is a mile away from me.  I am far enough away that I cannot hear them.  An interesting dilemma between their First Amendment rights versus courtesy for your neighbors.  Some interesting comments as well.  

I don't think the 1st Amendment in any way protects an imaginary "right" to disturb anyone with unwanted noise.

Here's what it actually says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Parsing that for freedom of speech only, it says:

Congress shall make no law respecting ... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; ...

The intent behind this was to ensure that the government would not punish people for expressing views opposed to the views espoused by said government. The 1st Amendment was never intended to provide carte blanche for some people to get in the faces of other people.

Parsing for freedom of religion (which the church seems to be claiming), it says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, ...

So ... how does a law that basically says, "Thou shalt not disturb thy neighbors with loud noises" in any way equate to establishing a state religion?

And as for "Would you seriously expect us to tone down 2000 people so you can sleep in on Sunday?" ... my answer is "Damn straight, Skippy!"

[MillCreek]

^^^ Actually, it is the 'or prohibiting the free exercise thereof' clause that applies.  Exactly what constitutes 'the free exercise of religion' has occupied many linear feet of appellate court opinions.

[Hawkmoon]

^^^ Actually, it is the 'or prohibiting the free exercise thereof' clause that applies.  Exactly what constitutes 'the free exercise of religion' has occupied many linear feet of appellate court opinions.

Well, they claim to be Christian. How does NOT disturbing the neighbors interfere with Christian doctrine? Where in the New Testament did Jesus instruct the disciples to "Go ye forth, and wake up the neighbors thrice on Sunday and again on Wednesday evening"?