Author Topic: What to do with the nice little goth kiddies? (Read 5867 times)

Bogie · « **on:** October 02, 2006, 07:38:14 PM »

The girlfriend's sister has a daughter (15) who's into the "let's be terminally depressed" scene... As in three suicide attempts, not to mention some really bad fashion...

Now, she's been talking to the girlfriend's daughter (11)... who's been checking out the "let's be terminally depressed" web sites, and has had her fashion sense go way down the tubes... One of the sites was vampirefreaks, ferinstance...

So... Short of playing the Evil Parent and taking away her toys, how to we explain to the eleven year old that emulating her older cousin is NOT a good idea, and that some of the people in the "scene," aren't really all that?

wingnutx · « **Reply #1 on:** October 02, 2006, 08:01:45 PM »

Most of the goth girls I've known were bright, literate, but just a bit overly dramatic.

I wouldn't worry about that fashion being more of a suicide risk than any other.

Bogie · « **Reply #2 on:** October 02, 2006, 08:28:20 PM »

The 11 year old is bright, literate, articulate, and pretty darn dramatic.

The 15 year old appears moderately intelligent, but is trending toward sullen... Has done pills, slit wrists, and the last one was a dive out of her mother's moving minivan onto an interstate (broken bones and road rash).

Guest · « **Reply #3 on:** October 03, 2006, 12:49:26 AM »

Being an evil parent and taking away their toys is underrated. Especially if she's putting herself at risk.

garrettwc · « **Reply #4 on:** October 03, 2006, 03:17:57 AM »

Quote

The 11 year old is bright, literate, articulate, and pretty darn dramatic.

Then sit down with her and discuss the things she is looking at with her and help her see it through something other than curious adolescent perspective. Also, explain to her that her cousin has a problem and that not everything she does is to be admired. If that doesn't work then Barbara is correct, old school discipline never hurts.

Quote

The 15 year old appears moderately intelligent, but is trending toward sullen... Has done pills, slit wrists, and the last one was a dive out of her mother's moving minivan onto an interstate (broken bones and road rash).

This girl has some serious internal issues. Goth is just the package it's wrapped up in. A trained professional needs to help her peel off the wrapping and take a good look at what's inside the box, before it's too late.

Standing Wolf · « **Reply #5 on:** October 03, 2006, 03:18:10 AM »

Taking dangerous toys away from children who don't comprehend them isn't necessarily fun, but nobody ever said the right thing to do is always the easiest.

BrokenPaw · « **Reply #6 on:** October 03, 2006, 04:13:13 AM »

Garrettwc is correct; the 15-year-old has issues, and the goth-dress is the symptom she's chosen to exhibit, rather than the cause of the issues. It could just as well have been some other counter-culture nonsense. There are plenty of goth kids out there with no problematical issues at all, and there are cheerleader-types who express their own problems through anorexia or some other avenue.

The 15-year-old needs help to resolve the issues. The 11-year-old needs help to understand (as garrett said) that the 15-year-old is not a good role model right now.

And Barbara's right; if the toys are too dangerous, they must be taken away.

-BP

HankB · « **Reply #7 on:** October 03, 2006, 04:37:01 AM »

OK, I'll say it - blood relative (cousin) or not, the wrist slitting, car-jumping, pill-popping 15 year old mental case needs to be kept away from the 11 year old - she's not just a bad influence, she's dangerous to that child!!

client32 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 03, 2006, 04:45:47 AM »

Quote from: HankB

OK, I'll say it - blood relative (cousin) or not, the wrist slitting, car-jumping, pill-popping 15 year old mental case needs to be kept away from the 11 year old - she's not just a bad influence, she's dangerous to that child!!

I tell my wife every time that one of here cousins does something stupid, that she needs to thank her dad for not allowing her to be around them. She agrees with me, she didn't understand it when she was younger, but now she gets it. In short, the 11 year old will be better off if you follow HankB's advice.

AJ Dual · « **Reply #9 on:** October 03, 2006, 04:55:12 AM »

Yep.

Keep her away from that cousin. Check computer logs, browser history obsessively.

Get a spy program if you have to.

If she's not already, (a little late, school's started) make sure she's in some extracirricular activites such as sports, scouts etc., and spending as much time as possible with her normal friends her own age.

Don't make a big deal out of how your doing this, just "make it so". If you turn the goth cousin into "forbidden fruit", the attraction to follow her could be even greater. If the sister is a realistic parent who is struggling to do everything she can to help the goth daughter, enlisting her to keep goth cousin away from the 11 year old can help too.

roo_ster · « **Reply #10 on:** October 03, 2006, 05:53:55 AM »

Quote from: Barbara

Being an evil parent and taking away their toys is underrated. Especially if she's putting herself at risk.

Quote from: Standing Wolf

Taking dangerous toys away from children who don't comprehend them isn't necessarily fun, but nobody ever said the right thing to do is always the easiest.

Quote from: HankB

OK, I'll say it - blood relative (cousin) or not, the wrist slitting, car-jumping, pill-popping 15 year old mental case needs to be kept away from the 11 year old - she's not just a bad influence, she's dangerous to that child!!

Barbara, SW, & HankB have the right idea(s). We, as parents, are to parent, not befriend, our minor children. Sometimes that means being the hardazz & stirring the ire of our kids.

Nobody would be so foolish as to allow a minor child unsupervised access to a computer with internet connectivity in her own room? Access ought to only be in the open (like a living room) with a splitter in the video cable. One cable goes to the monitor in front of the keyboard & one cable goes to the monitor mounted higher up for Gawd & all to see.

Also, a firewall/logger tool is indicated. When objectionable sites are discovered, the person with admin authority blocks incoming packets from that site.

Chris · « **Reply #11 on:** October 03, 2006, 07:02:42 AM »

Bravo. All too often, I see parents who are more concerned with being a friend to the \ir children rahter than being a parent. the funny thing is that I had strict parents, but I came to know and follow the rules, and found that I actually did have a good relationship with my parents, even friendly. Not that Mom didn't bust my backside a few times, but we're still close.

As to the goth thing, I'd worry less about the goth thing than the suicidal behaviors. Goth clothing and style can be actually very iteresting. Well, at least to me. Wanting to emulate a romanticized vision of vampires, forever young, dress in black, etc., is understandable. To be honest, I dated a goth type for a while in college. She was more of a witch than a vampire, dressing like Stevie Nicks. Very interesting parties. And I enjoyed being the outsider, dressed like a "normal" person. And, well, she was kinky, and I was young and dumb... Wink

I would agree that the suicidal/self-destructive behavior warrants professional intervention. And, it may be wise to keep the two seperated until such intervention is in place and having some positive effects.

CAnnoneer · « **Reply #12 on:** October 03, 2006, 08:25:49 AM »

1) Terminate the bad influence.
2) Provide a healthy alternative.
3) Openly ridicule and expose the fake lifestyle.
4) Be a parent, not a friend, or you'll end up being neither.
5) Take the kid to a hospital for terminally ill people. Let her see people that desperately want to live, but can't. A dose of reality.

People that are into the gothic tend to be emotionally self-indulgent and use self-pity and the garnered attention as a drug. They certainly are vampires but of the emotional and financial rather than porphyric type.

SomeKid · « **Reply #13 on:** October 03, 2006, 08:57:37 AM »

This page has some good parenting advice. (Some may disagree, but I think so.)

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=beat

Conversely, you could try a different tack. Say, hand the 11 year old a very sharp big knife, and ask her if she wants to emulate the 15. If she does, she needs to cut her wrists and kill herself. $5 says she gets the idea, and suicide becomes a lot less glamorous.

For the record, I have a bunch of friends who went through that stupid goth phase. When they started acting all whiny and loathing in self-pity, I told them to go get fu*****. No pity came from me, ever, and they learned not to even try. Big shock, around me they actually acted normal. Don't give the 15 any sympathy at all, and make it obvious why. She will either straighten up, or do the world a favor and die.

Headless Thompson Gunner · « **Reply #14 on:** October 03, 2006, 08:57:49 AM »

Being goth doesn't make you suicidal or depressed. I know far too many happy and well adjusted goths to believe that black clothing and pink hair dye makes you want to kill yourself.

If your cousin is a "terminally depressing and suicidal goth chick" then perhaps you should expend more energy figuring out why she wants to kill herself and less time worrying about her goth interests. Her being goth is NOT the cause of her depression. Trying to purge her of those interests will not magically cure her.

The fact that the younger girl is starting to like the goth thing won't maker her suicidal either.

Headless Thompson Gunner · « **Reply #15 on:** October 03, 2006, 09:01:26 AM »

Quote from: CAnnoneer

People that are into the gothic tend to be emotionally self-indulgent and use self-pity and the garnered attention as a drug. They certainly are vampires but of the emotional and financial rather than porphyric type.

You must be a goth expert, eh?

rolleyes

Bogie · « **Reply #16 on:** October 03, 2006, 09:36:07 AM »

Well, when the 11 year old announces that they wanna be like their friends, and kill themselves, I don't give a damn if they're wearing clown suits...

Personally, I think that it's just one way of conforming - They don't wanna be part of a group, so they become part of a group... Silly, but true.

What's some good internet logging software? Yeah, we're gonna spy on her.

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #17 on:** October 03, 2006, 09:40:27 AM »

Quote

Has done pills, slit wrists, and the last one was a dive out of her mother's moving minivan onto an interstate (broken bones and road rash)

Sounds like the kid is screaming for attention and this is the only way he thinks he can get it. I would guess there is probably more to the story. A nasty divorce, maybe? Possibly some family troubles at home? Absentee or overly critical parent?

Brad

wingnutx · « **Reply #18 on:** October 03, 2006, 09:57:55 AM »

Quote from: Headless Thompson Gunner

Quote from: CAnnoneer

People that are into the gothic tend to be emotionally self-indulgent and use self-pity and the garnered attention as a drug. They certainly are vampires but of the emotional and financial rather than porphyric type.

You must be a goth expert, eh?

rolleyes

He's so goth he poops bats.

CAnnoneer · « **Reply #19 on:** October 03, 2006, 10:01:56 AM »

Quote from: wingnutx

Quote from: Headless Thompson Gunner

You must be a goth expert, eh?

rolleyes

He's so goth he poops bats.

Both of you, pray tell.

wingnutx · « **Reply #20 on:** October 03, 2006, 10:06:41 AM »

I hear you have a nice firm buttress.

CAnnoneer · « **Reply #21 on:** October 03, 2006, 10:11:09 AM »

Quote from: wingnutx

I hear you have a nice firm buttress.

I have a nice firm "mass of stone used to support a tall wall"?

Bogie · « **Reply #22 on:** October 03, 2006, 10:11:36 AM »

Back to the point at hand... How the heck can I keep an eye on her (one computer in the house, by the way) to make sure she's not getting fed bad craziness?

Gonna try to keep her away from her cousin, but that's gonna be hard since the whole damn family is VERY close...

wingnutx · « **Reply #23 on:** October 03, 2006, 10:12:14 AM »

I'd curtail all unsupervised contact with the cousin.

BrokenPaw · « **Reply #24 on:** October 03, 2006, 10:14:17 AM »

Bogie,

Where is that one computer? If it's not in a public area, it should be. If that's not possible, then require supervised-only use.

What do the parents of the cousin think about the whole thing?

-BP

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Author Topic: What to do with the nice little goth kiddies? (Read 5867 times)

Guest

Chris