The Rings and the Lord Thereof

[Tallpine]

Tom Bombadil and Goldberry were my favorite characters - sadly they did not appear in the movie version.

I still dunno why the movie producer added crappy stuff of his own and took out good stuff from the books 

[MechAg94]

Maybe my memory is fading,  what major stuff did he add? 

[Ron]

Tom Bombadil and Goldberry were my favorite characters

Very important figures illustrating the "changing of the guard" so to speak.

As man was taking the lead the "magical" figures were diminishing.

Bombadil was a powerful figure but couldn't be bothered with the fight at hand. Not to take away from his help and support of our heroes.

 

[lee n. field]

I was surprised the world of LOTR was so detailed and so deep in background.  I had read long ago that he was a linguist and very concerned about having real languages for his characters to speak.  I didn't realize he would also have such a long and detailed history for his world, involving various races and kingdoms, multiple wars with Sauron, and the whole situation with the Undying Lands and Numenor.  I was also surprised to find that there is a single God, the One, and that he is so rarely mentioned.

So, read The Silmarillian yet?  It's the OT to the War of the Ring's NT.  There's back story that goes back to and before the creation of the world.

even though I read that Tolkien actually had Atlantis in mind.

Uh, yeah.  "but the exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desires of their hearts, spoke of ..... Atalante in the Eldarin tongue."

Watch the movies?  Yeah sure.  But there are some significant differences.  You don't get to see Grima Wormtongue slit Saruman's throat, fer one.  (Oh, but Brad Dourif was the absolute right! choice to play Wormtongue).

[Perd Hapley]

(Oh, but Brad Dourif was the absolute right! choice to play Wormtongue).

Well, I'm sure he'd like that quotation on his resume.   

Grampster, reading about Mordor and its minions was scary enough when I read it straight.  I think if I imbibed some "pipeweed" while reading it, I'd end up in a padded room. 

[Antibubba]

MechAg said: 

Later in front of the gates of Mordor, there were trolls again and I thought I saw sunlight also.  The trolls didn't turn to stone.

IIRC, Sauron bred some of them to tolerate sunlight, like he did the Uruk-hai (yes, I am a geek).

I second the Brad Dourif kudos.

I think what has to be kept in mind, when watching any film adaptation, is that literature and film are fundamentally different mediums.  Very few movies ever turn out to be "like the book".  you have to go into any such adaptation with fresh eyes.  That said, I think Jackson's vision was a very good one, and captured the heart of Tolkien's work. 

[Tallpine]

Maybe my memory is fading,  what major stuff did he add? 

It's been a while since I read the books, but ....

I don't think the whole falling off the cliff apparent death and survival scene was in the book.  That little scenario has been done to death in movies from the 1930's on ...    (though I did think getting "kissed" by his horse was funny)

And I don't remember the whole deal about Frodo not trusting Samwise from the book?

And all those dreamy scenes about Aragorn and Arwen.

Maybe those don't count as "major" stuff.  I can understand compressing timelines and taking shortcuts to make the trilogy fit into a movies, but why invent new stuff when you don't have enough time to begin with?

My complaint with most movies is that they spend millions and a lot of time to almost get it right, but then screw it up by adding the same old worn out "Hollyweirdisms" 

[Cromlech]

I was upset that Aragorn was placed more prominently in the scene of Boromir's final battle, at least the combat part of it. Boromir was the bad-ass, dammit, you just know how to lead, and wield the sword Mr Strider.

   

[Strings]

Did y'all read the same books I did?

 I started reading the Lord of the Rings when I was 13. EVERY year for the next ten, I'd reread it... Fellowship of the Ring would be the first book I'd pick up at the start of the new year. And I think I've read almost every bit of extra info on Middle Earth available before the movies came out...

 My feelings on the movies differ from those mentioned. While I thought Jackson did a wonderful epic fantasy, it just wasn't LOTR to me. The first issue was Arwen: she was NOT a major character in the books. Beloved of Aragorn, yes. Daughter of Elrond, yep. Major fighter? Nope... don't recall anything about her ever touching a weapon in the books. Although I didn't mind so much the scene with Elrond trying to talk her into leaving Middle Earth: Arwen was considered the reincarnation of Luthien Tenuvial, who also made the choice to remain in Middle Earth with her human husband. Beyond that, the amount of screen time Arwen had bothered me...

 Next issue: the Two Towers. There were more issues there for me than I really WANT to think about. The Two Towers (movie) is where I decided to treat the movies as just an epic fantasy, not LOTR. WAY too much time spent on Helm's Deep, which meant less time for other things. Oh... the elves helping at Helm's Deep? Didn't happen: the only elves there were Legolas and Elrond's sons. The battle shown at the begining of the movie where sauron fell and Isildur claimed the One Ring was called the Last Alliance of Elves and Men for a reason...

 Now, the biggest issue I had: the dropping of the Scouring of the Shire from Return of the King. Some here have said it was anticlimatic. You missed the point. The genesis of LOTR came about during WWI, where many British men (including Tolkien) went away to fight the Great Enemy and won... just to return home to major problems. This, to me, was THE biggest break from traditional fantasy: there really was no "and they lived happily ever after": they came home to a country that was ruined, the major "hero" was a wreck (Frodo had to sail to the Undying Lands with Bilbo to find any comfort), and LOTS of hard work was ahead of those who remained...

 And those were just the biggest problems I had...

 BTW: it wasn't Sauron who created the Uruk Hai, it was Saruman. Really, when you get right down to it, Sauron never really created anything BUT the One Ring: orcs were preversions of elves "created" by Sauron's old master Morgoth (and there was a suggestion that trolls might be preverted versions of ents), the Ringwraiths were (at least in part) created with the help of the elves (who taught Sauron how to make the Rings of Power). And there were a couple times where it was pointed  out that the Uruk Hai of Isengard were superior to the orcs of Mordor...

 
 Oh... before I forget... the Silmarillion. Great chunk of backstory for the War of the Ring. However... go grab a bible, and start reading right at the begining. If you start to get bored, you want to skip through all the creation of the world and it's peoples in the Silmarillion: about half the book...

 Ok... i'll get off my soapbox now...

[Cromlech]

I totally understand, Hunter. I read the Silmarillion at a young age, and the level of background detail is incredible.

[Strings]

having reread my post, I realize I just outed myself as a total geek. I think there are things I know about LOTR and it's worlds that only Tolkien knew...

[bedlamite]

I realize I just outed myself as a total geek.

To some of us this is not news.

[Strings]

>To some of us this is not news.<

You can be replaced with a puppy. The puppy could be shot.

[bedlamite]

The puppy would piddle on your foot first.

[Strings]

You're probably right there!

[Perd Hapley]

The puppy could be shot.

  I knew you were a bad, bad man.   

[MillCreek]

Hmm, am I the only person here who has read the parody "Bored of the Rings" by the Harvard Lampoon?  Absolutely hilarious.  With or without the golden ale and pipeweed.

[Eleven Mike]

I should change my name to Elven Mike for this thread.   

I don't think the whole falling off the cliff apparent death and survival scene was in the book. 

You mean Gandalf?  Yes, he did fall to his apparent death in the book, while fighting the Balrog in Moria.  I don't know how the movie treated it. 

Thanks for all the comments folks.  Why didn't the elves help more?  That question never came to me while reading the book, but maybe it would have if I got into it more.  Somebody said there were few elves left, and that sounds right to me.  Another described the elves as useless elitists.  I don't think so.  They WERE different from men in certain ways.  They were immortal, far older than any living men.  They seem to have been wiser in certain ways.  I don't know if we can blame the elves for being less involved.  The books imply there was some wiser hand guiding events, and maybe the elves were held back. 

Hunter Rose, the Scouring might have been my favorite part of the books.  But nonetheless, it did not adhere to the simple pattern of build-up, climax and denoument that has worked so well for Hollywood.  I think I explained this better in my earlier post, so I won't repeat it. 

[Eleven Mike]

Hmm, am I the only person here who has read the parody "Bored of the Rings" by the Harvard Lampoon?  Absolutely hilarious.  With or without the golden ale and pipeweed.

Is this on the web, or is it a longer work? 

[Strings]

>Why didn't the elves help more?<

Hmmm... they had been fighting a "Great Enemy" (First Morgoth. Then, shortly after his fall, Sauron) for ages. By the time of the War of the Ring, many of the High Elves were heading back to Valinor, and even the Grey Elves had dwindled in number: Rivendell had a small number, as did Lothlorien. The Elven King in Mirkwood already had his hands full, with Sauron sending more of his creatures to his old keep as the Necromancer. Besides that, they had literally already gone through all this: during the Last Alliance, they had completely defeated Sauron, only to be thwarted at the last second by their allies, Men (and, in defeating Sauron, lost LOTS of people, up to and including their High King, Gil-Galad). I always figured the elves left in Middle Earth that COULD help didn't because of disgust ("we went through this already, and you stopped us. Clean up your own mess, we're leaving")...

 And yes... the Scouring might not fit with the Hollywood mold. Guess what? Star Wars didn't necessarily fit the mold at the time, and it was a smash hit. Maybe, when producing an adaption of a bestselling book, they should stick to the story?

[wingnutx]

Hmm, am I the only person here who has read the parody "Bored of the Rings" by the Harvard Lampoon?  Absolutely hilarious.  With or without the golden ale and pipeweed.

I read it in highschool. 'Twas good.

[Tallpine]

I don't think the whole falling off the cliff apparent death and survival scene was in the book. 

You mean Gandalf?  Yes, he did fall to his apparent death in the book, while fighting the Balrog in Moria.  I don't know how the movie treated it. 

No, no, no - I'm talking about where Aragorn and the people of Rohan were attacked by Orcs riding wolves on their flight to Helms Deep.  Aragorn and one of the wolves fall off a cliff into a river and he is given up for dead.  Later, he washes up on the riverbank and his horse revives him by licking his face.  But, Aragorn is dreaming that he is being kissed by Arwen instead, until he opens his eyes.


BTW, Bored of the Rings was fantastic - if you have a sense of humor:

Gandalf stopped talking in mid-sentence, and a shadow passed over his face.

"I cannot say more," Gandalf said gravely, "for a shadow has passed over my face."
 

[MillCreek]

Hmm, am I the only person here who has read the parody "Bored of the Rings" by the Harvard Lampoon?  Absolutely hilarious.  With or without the golden ale and pipeweed.

Is this on the web, or is it a longer work? 

It is not on the web, but it is available on Amazon.

[lee n. field]

Hmm, am I the only person here who has read the parody "Bored of the Rings" by the Harvard Lampoon?  Absolutely hilarious.  With or without the golden ale and pipeweed.

The only one?  Tee Hee.  No.

"This is indeed a queer river."

Tim Benzidrene.  Frito and Dildo. 

[Eleven Mike]

I'm talking about where Aragorn and the people of Rohan were attacked by Orcs riding wolves on their flight to Helms Deep.  Aragorn and one of the wolves fall off a cliff into a river and he is given up for dead.  Later, he washes up on the riverbank and his horse revives him by licking his face. 

Oh.  You're right.  That is not in the book.