Oops, How did those get in there.

[never_retreat]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/24/authorities-old-west-show-uses-live-bullets-injures-three-tourists/?test=latestnews

Four spent casings and two unfired cartridges with lead bullets were located near the scene Friday afternoon, the sheriff said. The gun, the casings and the bullets will be sent the state crime lab in Pierre for testing,

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/24/authorities-old-west-show-uses-live-bullets-injures-three-tourists/#ixzz1QIxNV2yg

Test results after spending thousands of dollars.

Yep they are bullets.

[vaskidmark]

So they are hiring real cops to play the Sheriff and the Bad Guy(s)?

Seems so, based on their shooting skilz.

stay safe.

[MechAg94]

When I was a kid, we visited a place called Old Tuscon near (you guessed it) Tuscon, AZ.  They used black plastic bullets in the pistols.  I'm not even sure if the pistols were real firearms or not.  Have any of you heard of this one?  What do they use?  Do the blanks use brass and look like regular bullets unless you pull them out? 

If they found unfired rounds, then either they know who shot them or the guy unloaded and dropped them without fessing up. 

[Jim147]

When I was a kid, we visited a place called Old Tuscon near (you guessed it) Tuscon, AZ.  They used black plastic bullets in the pistols.  I'm not even sure if the pistols were real firearms or not.  Have any of you heard of this one?  What do they use?  Do the blanks use brass and look like regular bullets unless you pull them out? 

If they found unfired rounds, then either they know who shot them or the guy unloaded and dropped them without fessing up. 

Cactus fruit candy, a train ride and a gunfight. What more could you want from a place.

I'm guessing they are using the 5 in 1 blank brass. Someone forgot to change his carry ammo.

jim

[KD5NRH]

Knutson said she was glad to get confirmation from authorities that her leg wound was caused by a lead bullet. The hospital already had determined that a bullet had hit her, and lead residue was found in the wound, she said.

WTF?

[MechAg94]

WTF?

Yeah, cause having your leg broken by blanks would be way too much to take.  The genuine real McCoy is a comfort. 

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

WTF?

Probably because she can sue and win beaucoup money.

[230RN]

When I was a kid, we visited a place called Old Tuscon near (you guessed it) Tuscon, AZ.  They used black plastic bullets in the pistols.  I'm not even sure if the pistols were real firearms or not.  Have any of you heard of this one?  What do they use?  Do the blanks use brass and look like regular bullets unless you pull them out? 

If they found unfired rounds, then either they know who shot them or the guy unloaded and dropped them without fessing up. 

http://www.speer-bullets.com/products/components/plastic_training_bullets.aspx

I've used many of those in .38.  They're advertised as going 300-400 feet per second, suitable for 25-foot practice.

They do pack a bit of a wallop and I would not be using them in an old Wild West re-enactment.  Besides, they aren't loud enough or smoky enough.

Even the 5-in one blanks can be dangerous at close range.  Either the concussion (blast wave) or the wad impact or both killed a movie actor who was apparently ignorant enough of firearms to hold his blank-loaded pistol to his temple and fire it.





In the present South Dakota case, someone was either really really dumb or foolishly malicious or did a few too many reps of elbow-bending excercise at the bar.

Really weird, since the gun was left at the scene and the actor who apparently fired the shots took off.  I'm kind of interested that he didn't seem to notice any recoil difference after the first shot, although they were possibly Cowboy Action Loads, which don't kick as much as a full-house .45 Colt cartridge.  But they still kick.  And I really don't know if the 5-in-1 blanks kick much.

I'll bet the Dakota Wild Bunch re-enactors will triple-check their loadings next time.  If there is a next time.

It occurs to me that beyond determining, "Yep, they're bullets," the investigation would involve whether they were reloads or not.  If reloads, it would indicate that whoever loaded the gun (if it was the same guy who fired it) had a superior knowledge of firearms, since he was a reloader, and therefore really should have known better. I think this would possibly take it out of the "mere accident" category and make it a real crime.   

Terry, 230RN

REF (scroll down about halfway):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum

[KD5NRH]

The local reenactors use that flower-arranging foam over a light load of BP.  That way, everybody is using the same stuff whether they're shooting cartridge, cap and ball revolver, or muzzleloader.  AFAICT, the stuff is pretty much harmless beyond a few feet.  (I'd be surprised if it even cleared the barrel before disintegrating.)  I know I've seen them fire into hard dirt right at their feet and leave no more mark than an empty primed hull would.

[TechMan]

Probably because she can sue and win beaucoup money.

I have to agree with you on that assessment.

[CNYCacher]

WTF?

The author of the article seems to misunderstand what's happening here.  She is relieved that they had determined the bullets came from the re-enactor, which makes it a likely mistake.  She had previously feared that the bullets came from a malicious person shooting randomly into the crowd, using the re-enactment for cover.

The point of the acticle is that the authorities determined one of the re-enactors was shooting lead.  The fact that the people were hit with lead was already known, I think.

[MechAg94]

http://www.speer-bullets.com/products/components/plastic_training_bullets.aspx

I've used many of those in .38.  They're advertised as going 300-400 feet per second, suitable for 25-foot practice.

They do pack a bit of a wallop and I would not be using them in an old Wild West re-enactment.  Besides, they aren't loud enough or smoky enough.

Even the 5-in one blanks can be dangerous at close range.  Either the concussion (blast wave) or the wad impact or both killed a movie actor who was apparently ignorant enough of firearms to hold his blank-loaded pistol to his temple and fire it.





In the present South Dakota case, someone was either really really dumb or foolishly malicious or did a few too many reps of elbow-bending excercise at the bar.

Really weird, since the gun was left at the scene and the actor who apparently fired the shots took off.  I'm kind of interested that he didn't seem to notice any recoil difference after the first shot, although they were possibly Cowboy Action Loads, which don't kick as much as a full-house .45 Colt cartridge.  But they still kick.  And I really don't know if the 5-in-1 blanks kick much.

I'll bet the Dakota Wild Bunch re-enactors will triple-check their loadings next time.  If there is a next time.

It occurs to me that beyond determining, "Yep, they're bullets," the investigation would involve whether they were reloads or not.  If reloads, it would indicate that whoever loaded the gun (if it was the same guy who fired it) had a superior knowledge of firearms, since he was a reloader, and therefore really should have known better. I think this would possibly take it out of the "mere accident" category and make it a real crime.  

Terry, 230RN

REF (scroll down about halfway):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum

Pardon my bad word choice, but when I said plastic bullets, I meant all plastic cartridges.  The end where a bullet would be was a rounded bullet shaped cap with an X pattern cut in the top to vent burnt powder or whatever they loaded.  They used to let the kids grab them as they dumped them out to reload.  My parents used to have one or two, but probably not anymore.  They were not brass or metal at all and were just made to contain some kind of powder charge for the noise.

[230RN]

"Pardon my bad word choice, but when I said plastic bullets, I meant all plastic cartridges."

The Speer black plastic bullets I referred to were loaded into red all-plastic cases also available from Speer.  From my link op cit.:



I seem to recall there was a slight step in the plastic bullets to mate the inside diameter of the plastic case on one end, and the bore of the gun on the other.  I think this step is hidden behind the plastic case in the above picture.

Exhibition shooters such as Bill Jordan used to load wax bullets into regular brass cases for their demonstration shooting.  These were also powered only by the primers.

[MicroBalrog]

Probably because she can sue and win beaucoup money.

Me, I'm of the view that this is one case where a massive lawsuit is justified.

[AZRedhawk44]

These were also powered only by the primers.

I'll readily admit to being less experienced than Bill Jordan or any other exhibition gunslinger, but every time that any of us here in AZ (in my community of shooters) have shot a primed-only cartridge in a revolver, the primer backs out of the pocket and imprints hard enough against the recess for the firing pin that it binds up the weapon.  Takes several minutes of fiddling to get it to open up or advance the cylinder.

I imagine that any revolver-oriented blank or noisemaker round has to have some propellant in the case, so that the case is forced back against the revolver recoil shield and firing pin housing and re-seats the primer back into the pocket again.

[Jim147]

You need to enlarge the flash hole to keep the primer from backing out. But then you don't want to use them for regular loads.

jim

[White Horseradish]

Why would a primer-only load push out a primer when a normal load wouldn't? The pressure inside the casing would be much higher with an actual powder charge.

I have shot wax bullets in my Nagant. Worked like a charm.  Did not enlarge flash holes and did not have any primers back out.

[Jim147]

Most loads push the primer back, to some extent. But then any normal pressure load will push the case back against the face and reseat the primer in the next instant.

The unique design of the Nagant may have made a difference. Or I can only make up so much when it's this hot. :)

jim

[Hawkmoon]

I'll readily admit to being less experienced than Bill Jordan or any other exhibition gunslinger, but every time that any of us here in AZ (in my community of shooters) have shot a primed-only cartridge in a revolver, the primer backs out of the pocket and imprints hard enough against the recess for the firing pin that it binds up the weapon.  Takes several minutes of fiddling to get it to open up or advance the cylinder.

I imagine that any revolver-oriented blank or noisemaker round has to have some propellant in the case, so that the case is forced back against the revolver recoil shield and firing pin housing and re-seats the primer back into the pocket again.

A friend uses those Speer plastic bullets in .45 Colt to practice in his garage. The .45 version uses standard brass. He's never mentioned having a primer back out, and I know he has reused the same cases probably hundreds of times.

[AJ Dual]

I have a supply of the Speer "Target .38" and have used them to shoot into rag-filled cardboard boxes with a S&W Model 36 with 1.875" barrel , 66, and 686 with 3" barrels and experienced no primer back-out or binding.

[Hawkmoon]

duplicate - sorry

[Stetson]

When I used to to the re-enactments/gunfighting shows we used BP covered with floral foam for our loads.  The foam will burn and you can see it on videotape if you put it in slow motion.  We never actually pointed our guns at anyone.  When you are watching a show you can't see the horizontal angles we used so it looked like the guns were lined up but we were 5 or so degrees left or right of the person. We would fire before the gun was on the target vertically, but it looked like we were shooting at them.

The blanks we used would tear an aluminum can apart at 4 feet and we showed this in the safety show before the actual exhibitions.  Even our quickdraw competitions didnt have people facing each other.  We had a light that initiated the draw and whoever popped their balloon first won.

This group should never have had this "accident".  Every bit of it was negligence.