Author Topic: Health Care Pie-in-the-Sky meets Reality: Walgreens in WA won't accept Medicaid  (Read 11007 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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No, they generally do not.  And the numbers suggest it's not very smart for people in "worker's paradises" to do that, since the health outcomes, negligence, and error rates are (for most people) measurably better in socialist medicine systems.   

Saudi billionaires do go to the US, along with various other billionaires - that's because money is meaningless to them, and if you have an income of several million dollars plus, there is indeed very good care available in America.  Probably even the best in the world. 

But how relevant to 99 percent of the population is that?  You need to be on the Forbes 100 richest list to get that kind of care, literally.  Any income bracket below that, and you're dealing with a medical system that delivers poorer service at higher prices than most socialist systems.




'thats odd i'm 1/2 japanese. my mom had 14 brothers and sisters.  i have close to 100 first cousins. and we pretty regularly host them when they come here for medical treatment. we did send mom over there for cancer treatment but thats only cause the us gov /fda wouldn't approve the drug for cancer treatment.  never mind that the drug was used for decades here to treat tb.

in the 70's and early 80's i worked driving cab in bethesda md.  i hauled many patients to and from the airport that came here because they were dead meat in their own countries. and some of them came from the socialist paradises you are so enamoured of
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

roo_ster

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Medicaid/Medicare doesn't explain:

1. Why the price is insanely high for many services;

Docs & hospitals who take on medicare/medicaid patients must make up the losses that incur from treated them and being reimbursed for a fraction of hte cost to treat.

Illegal aliens MUST be treated at ERs for life-threatening illnesses and many public hospitals treat illegals beyond what is legally required.  For instance, Parkland (Dallas Co public hosptal) has 16,000 births per year, the majority to illegal aliens.  These folks are not even pursued for payment.

Other uninsured who flop down and get world-class treatment and then walk out on the bill.

2. Why there are shortages of doctors; or

Folks who are sharp enough to make it through med school have MANY options, many of which are more remunerative than doctoring,nowadays.  What with the crap I listed above, add in malpractice insurance and med school loans, and it is no wonder.

BTW, if you think there is a shortage now, just you wait until Obamacare is in place for a few years and the word-of-mouth commo trickles down to prospective doctors.  My BIL will not stand for that sort of foolishness.  He has long since paid off any debt and does not have to be a doctor to survive. 

3. Why quality isn't measurably higher than in socialist systems.

Uh, it is not.  The usual metric used here is mean age at death.  Well, when comparing say, Sweden with its 95% ethnic Swedish population to the USA [with 13% black, 13% latin (1/4-1/2 of which are illegals)] one is now comparing apples with naranjas. 

Those two minorities commit murder and are murdered all out of proportion relative to other components of the population.  Same thing with drug use, poor diet (remember, the USA is the country where more of the POOR are fat, not the rich), and all sorts of other social pathologies. 

Think that might have an effect on the mean age at death stat?

I find it amusing that statist types always point to lilly-white euro countries as exemplars of what we ought to be.  Maybe if we were all Swedes or Dutchmen, it might work, for a while.

Oh, also, the eurosocialists list as stillborn many newborn we count as live births...many of who we actually go on to save, but not all, dragging down the favorite "health care" stat of statists.

For health care stats that are comparable, things like survival rates after one is diagnosed with cancer, the USA blows the socialist systems out of the water.

As has been noted here, it isn't mandatory for docs to take medicare.  So why isn't the private system stepping up to the plate and supplying GPs, and other services, at a price that most people can actually afford?

They are, you're just not paying attention.

Freaking Wal-mart is bringing primary care to folks on the cheap:
http://www.walmart.com/cp/Clinics/554492
~$50 for a visit.

One of these guys opened up 1/4mi from my house:
http://www.careclubusa.com/
$55 if you aren't a member per visit, $30 if you join up and cough up $10 or $20 per month.

We sometimes use them, even though we have good insurance, because they are close & fast.

Both of the above are GP, primary care sorts of deals.



It's easy to bag out the socialist medicine systems around the world, but they tend to be more efficient by every measure, and the health outcomes for populations that live with those systems are measurably better than in the United States. 

Some folks like to blame McDonald's.  Others like to pretend like insurance companies don't make you wait or are responsive to your needs as a consumer (ha!).  But the numbers are what they are.

Buddy, pass me what you are smoking.

For actual comparable health-care related metrics, the socialist systems suck hind teat:
Wait times to see doc/specialist
Wait times for diagnostic testing
Wait times for operations
Outcomes for people already sick, such as cancer survival rates

Pretty much everything except mean age at time of death.  Which would be in America's favor if we only compared the Northern European lily white proportion of the USA to the lily white Northern European euro-socilaist paradises.


Just for shiites & giggles, let us look at life expectancy.

Code: [Select]
             Date of Dat: 2009 est
Rank         Country                                     Years        Diff Rel to #1        Pct Diff Rel to #1        Diff Rel to USA        Pct Diff Rel to USA
  1          Macau                                       84.36             0.00                     0%                     6.25                      8%
  2          Andorra                                     82.51            -1.85                    -2%                     4.40                      6%
  3          Japan                                       82.12            -2.24                    -3%                     4.01                      5%
  4          Singapore                                   81.98            -2.38                    -3%                     3.87                      5%
  5          Hong Kong                                   81.86            -2.50                    -3%                     3.75                      5%
  6          Australia                                   81.63            -2.73                    -3%                     3.52                      5%
  7          Canada                                      81.23            -3.13                    -4%                     3.12                      4%
  8          France                                      80.98            -3.38                    -4%                     2.87                      4%
  9          Sweden                                      80.86            -3.50                    -4%                     2.75                      4%
 10          Switzerland                                 80.85            -3.51                    -4%                     2.74                      4%
 11          San Marino                                  80.81            -3.55                    -4%                     2.70                      3%
 12          Israel                                      80.73            -3.63                    -4%                     2.62                      3%
 13          Iceland                                     80.67            -3.69                    -5%                     2.56                      3%
 14          Anguilla                                    80.65            -3.71                    -5%                     2.54                      3%
 15          Cayman Islands                              80.44            -3.92                    -5%                     2.33                      3%
 16          Bermuda                                     80.43            -3.93                    -5%                     2.32                      3%
 17          New Zealand                                 80.36            -4.00                    -5%                     2.25                      3%
 18          Italy                                       80.20            -4.16                    -5%                     2.09                      3%
 19          Monaco                                      80.09            -4.27                    -5%                     1.98                      3%
 20          Liechtenstein                               80.06            -4.30                    -5%                     1.95                      2%
 21          Spain                                       80.05            -4.31                    -5%                     1.94                      2%
 22          Guernsey                                    80.00            -4.36                    -5%                     1.89                      2%
 23          Norway                                      79.95            -4.41                    -6%                     1.84                      2%
 24          Jordan                                      79.85            -4.51                    -6%                     1.74                      2%
 25          Jersey                                      79.75            -4.61                    -6%                     1.64                      2%
 26          Greece                                      79.66            -4.70                    -6%                     1.55                      2%
 27          Austria                                     79.50            -4.86                    -6%                     1.39                      2%
 28          Faroe Islands                               79.44            -4.92                    -6%                     1.33                      2%
 29          Malta                                       79.44            -4.92                    -6%                     1.33                      2%
 30          Netherlands                                 79.40            -4.96                    -6%                     1.29                      2%
 31          Luxembourg                                  79.33            -5.03                    -6%                     1.22                      2%
 32          Germany                                     79.26            -5.10                    -6%                     1.15                      1%
 33          Belgium                                     79.22            -5.14                    -6%                     1.11                      1%
 34          Saint Pierre and Miquelon                   79.08            -5.28                    -7%                     0.97                      1%
 35          Virgin Islands                              79.05            -5.31                    -7%                     0.94                      1%
 36          United Kingdom                              79.01            -5.35                    -7%                     0.90                      1%
 37          Finland                                     78.97            -5.39                    -7%                     0.86                      1%
 38          Isle of Man                                 78.82            -5.54                    -7%                     0.71                      1%
 39          Gibraltar                                   78.79            -5.57                    -7%                     0.68                      1%
 40          Korea, South                                78.72            -5.64                    -7%                     0.61                      1%
 41          European Union                              78.67            -5.69                    -7%                     0.56                      1%
 42          Puerto Rico                                 78.52            -5.84                    -7%                     0.41                      1%
 43          Bosnia and Herzegovina                      78.50            -5.86                    -7%                     0.39                      0%
 44          Saint Helena, Ascension, and Tristan da Cunh78.44            -5.92                    -8%                     0.33                      0%
 45          Denmark                                     78.30            -6.06                    -8%                     0.19                      0%
 46          Ireland                                     78.24            -6.12                    -8%                     0.13                      0%
 47          Portugal                                    78.21            -6.15                    -8%                     0.10                      0%
 48          Wallis and Futuna                           78.20            -6.16                    -8%                     0.09                      0%
 49          United States                               78.11            -6.25                    -8%                     0.00                      0%

How many of those above the USA are mono-ethnic states?
How many of those above the USA have lower murder/crime rates?
How many of those above the USA make personal autos unreachable to the average citizen, forcing them the walk a whole lot more?
How many of those above the USA are oriental states where the customary diet is something like: a little fish, a little rice, veggies, some vile fermented sauce*...repeat as necessary?




* Nam Pla. Look it up.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

roo_ster

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Let me tell y'all a story about a fellow with the pseudonym, "Juan Doe."

Mr. Doe was doing pretty well for himself, in that country south of the border.  He could afford an auto, had a good job, life was good.

Until, one day, Mr. Doe forgot to set the emergency brake on his auto and the front tire ended up rolling over his lower leg, crushing it.

Well, he was sent to the south of the border hospital, where they stabilized him with some pretty decent trauma surgery.  Mr. Doe still had his leg, but there was a problem.  There was no facility in that country* able to see to it that Mr. Doe was not crippled for life...for the money middle-class Mr. Doe could pay.  See, the medical system was "free," but rationed.   Anything beyond a certain level required cold, hard, cash.

Mr. Doe could expect a future amputation or severe dificulty in walking onhis crippled leg.

But, there was another option, his doctors told him.  Mr. Doe could:
1. Scrape up enough money for a one-way airplane ticket to DFW.
2. Land at DFW
3. Call 911 for an ambulance
4. Have the ambulance take him to the county hospital
5. Have the residents of that county in America pay for his numerous surgeries and weeks/months stay at the county hospital after he skipped out on the bill and went home.


So, for the price of a plane ticket to America, Mr. Doe got hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of world-class medical care.


* This country's citizens (let's call it "Exicomay") are more prosperous than 5 billion of the six billion people on Earth.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

AZRedhawk44

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As has been noted here, it isn't mandatory for docs to take medicare.  So why isn't the private system stepping up to the plate and supplying GPs, and other services, at a price that most people can actually afford?

I just went to an Urgent Care clinic about a month ago for an ankle injury.

I had insurance and ended up shelling about a $25 co-pay... but the fee schedule for my particular injury and treatment was right on the wall, almost like a freakin' McDonald's Meal Deal.  It was $180 for a visit, with X-rays, and initial treatment.

Frankly, that ain't too bad.  $180 for the combined resources of a nurse, doctor, X-ray machine and X-ray technician?

Illness visits were even less.  I don't remember exactly, but it was about $75 or so for a bacterial illness requiring antibiotic treatments.
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lupinus

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Freaking Wal-mart is bringing primary care to folks on the cheap:
http://www.walmart.com/cp/Clinics/554492
~$50 for a visit.
Walgreens has similar with their Take Care clinics. On site nurse practitioner and can do just about everything they can do as a NP right in the store. Kind of a scaled down urgent care type place. No locations with doctors but I frankly would be surprised to see it in coming years.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Jamisjockey

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Urgent cares are freaking cash cows.  They are springing up faster than Starbucks around here.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

KD5NRH

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Well, the solution is easy - just pass a law that providers must accept medicare/aid patients

Maybe it'll speed up the line at Whataburger when there are a couple MDs behind the counter.


Balog

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I caught MRSA from the VA hospital, twice. Both times it was misdiagnosed. If I hadn't went to an urgent care center I'd be dead. I hate the thought of all hospitals being like that VA hospital.  =|
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KD5NRH

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How many of those above the USA make personal autos unreachable to the average citizen, forcing them the walk a whole lot more?

You forgot the 40,000-50,000 deaths per year directly attributed to auto accidents.  Also 2-3 million injuries, some of which may lead to later deaths not included in the previous figure.  Considering the number of them that are teens and early twenties, that's likrly to have a significant impact on life expectancy.

roo_ster

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You forgot the 40,000-50,000 deaths per year directly attributed to auto accidents.  Also 2-3 million injuries, some of which may lead to later deaths not included in the previous figure.  Considering the number of them that are teens and early twenties, that's likrly to have a significant impact on life expectancy.

Good point.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Jamisjockey

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I caught MRSA from the VA hospital, twice. Both times it was misdiagnosed. If I hadn't went to an urgent care center I'd be dead. I hate the thought of all hospitals being like that VA hospital.  =|

Navy Doc at the BMC in Yuma did a hatchet job on my mouth to remove my wisdom teeth.  I had to go to Balboa to see the oral surgeon.  There, they did a fine job, but I woke up under IV drip anestesia. 
Also, at the BMC, they misdiagnosed my wife's Endimitriosis.  That cost us (and our very good insurance plan that we later had) alot of money down the road, pain, heartache, and misery.  We almost didn't have kids because of it.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

Inor

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About 5 years ago I was in San Diego on business when I had a tooth become infected and require a root canal.  Since I could not find a U.S. dentist that worked evenings, I went across the border to a Mexican dentist.  He was trained in Germany and did a magnificent job.  He charged me $100 for the root canal and 3 days later another $150 for the gold crown.  What surprised me the most was the pain killer and the antibiotic that would have required a prescription here, were over-the-counter in Mexico.

If I lived near the Mexican border, I would seriously consider using them for all of my healthcare needs. - Especially now.

AZRedhawk44

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Urgent cares are freaking cash cows.  They are springing up faster than Starbucks around here.

Good.  If you can see a doctor/nurse/x-ray tech on demand and get taken care of for less than $200, then the Invisible Hand is still working.

Anyone know what an old west doctor would charge for a house call to deliver a baby, or treat someone with an illness or injury?  And what fraction of a man's monthly income that was?
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Jamisjockey

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About 5 years ago I was in San Diego on business when I had a tooth become infected and require a root canal.  Since I could not find a U.S. dentist that worked evenings, I went across the border to a Mexican dentist.  He was trained in Germany and did a magnificent job.  He charged me $100 for the root canal and 3 days later another $150 for the gold crown.  What surprised me the most was the pain killer and the antibiotic that would have required a prescription here, were over-the-counter in Mexico.

If I lived near the Mexican border, I would seriously consider using them for all of my healthcare needs. - Especially now.


You should see the rush in the winter in Algadones (SP??)!  The snowbirds all flock to southern AZ and Calif, and they head across the border.  Well, it used to be that way, anyways, before the recent high crime rates in the border towns.
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Inor

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You should see the rush in the winter in Algadones (SP??)!  The snowbirds all flock to southern AZ and Calif, and they head across the border.  Well, it used to be that way, anyways, before the recent high crime rates in the border towns.

Mrs. Inor and I will soon be two of them (hopefully).  Two years ago we bought a chunk of land outside Sunsites, AZ.  Last year, I had a well drilled and presently I have an architect drawing plans for our house there.  I have always wanted to build my own house, so by the end of the summer I plan to be down there doing just that.  Given that it is doubtful that I will be able to keep my business up here going thanks to Pelosi, Reid and company, I may as well be doing something productive with my time eh?   =D

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Good.  If you can see a doctor/nurse/x-ray tech on demand and get taken care of for less than $200, then the Invisible Hand is still working.

Anyone know what an old west doctor would charge for a house call to deliver a baby, or treat someone with an illness or injury?  And what fraction of a man's monthly income that was?
I found a really good walk-in doctors office that take patients for cash.  They're somewhat above the typical urgent care joint, but not quite as heavy handed and bureaucratic as the GP offices are around here.  \

The result is that I can pay cash for the services I want, no need to bother with my insurance or <spit> with the government.  I go in, chat with the doc about what's wrong and what services I might want/need and the benefits/costs associated with them, we reach an agreement and away we go.  Easy.  It's the way all doctors should operate.

I hope he doesn't retire and close shop due to this new crap they just passed.

Balog

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Navy Doc at the BMC in Yuma did a hatchet job on my mouth to remove my wisdom teeth.  I had to go to Balboa to see the oral surgeon.  There, they did a fine job, but I woke up under IV drip anestesia. 
Also, at the BMC, they misdiagnosed my wife's Endimitriosis.  That cost us (and our very good insurance plan that we later had) alot of money down the road, pain, heartache, and misery.  We almost didn't have kids because of it.

Oh God, don't even get me started on the butchery they did on my teeth in boot camp. I've spent probably $2k and they still aren't fixed yet.
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Oh God, don't even get me started on the butchery they did on my teeth in boot camp. I've spent probably $2k and they still aren't fixed yet.

It sounds like it hasn't improved much since I was in.  Ouch.
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sanglant

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I found a really good walk-in doctors office that take patients for cash.  They're somewhat above the typical urgent care joint, but not quite as heavy handed and bureaucratic as the GP offices are around here.  \

The result is that I can pay cash for the services I want, no need to bother with my insurance or <spit> with the government.  I go in, chat with the doc about what's wrong and what services I might want/need and the benefits/costs associated with them, we reach an agreement and away we go.  Easy.  It's the way all doctors should operate.

I hope he doesn't retire and close shop due to this new crap they just passed.
i just had to add, if a patient can't afford to pay cash the doctor should be allowed to negotiate with them and take whatever they can pay the doctor wants. if the doctor will see them free and they want to pay a few bucks so it ain't charity so be it, if they have eggs, pigs, or something fine. it shouldn't affect the doctor's billing for insurance or the government machine. [popcorn] much less the current system where if a patient has medicaid and a doctor(that hasn't been accepted to see medicaid patients) sees them for nothing he can't ever see Medicaid patients. :facepalm:

De Selby

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About 5 years ago I was in San Diego on business when I had a tooth become infected and require a root canal.  Since I could not find a U.S. dentist that worked evenings, I went across the border to a Mexican dentist.  He was trained in Germany and did a magnificent job.  He charged me $100 for the root canal and 3 days later another $150 for the gold crown.  What surprised me the most was the pain killer and the antibiotic that would have required a prescription here, were over-the-counter in Mexico.

If I lived near the Mexican border, I would seriously consider using them for all of my healthcare needs. - Especially now.

There's that socialist medicine for you - even third world countries sometimes give a decent job.

Jamis, you need to weight the numbers of US medical tourists seeking treatment abroad against those (primarily Latin American and Arab - ie, extremely wealthy, as the poor in those places can't even afford a plane ticket here) tourists coming to the US. 

http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34175_20070917.pdf

There's one study that's been posted before.

It isn't just in lifespan the US falls behind, which is important to considering jfruser's point.

Pretty much every measure (ie, infant mortality, death from treatable illness, cancer, etc) has the US behind the "socialist paradises", lily white or not.  The reason is that health care costs way more, and is therefore far less available to most of the population. 

The US medical system delivers an inferior product (if health outcomes are the relevant measure, anyway) at an extremely inflated price (that one is beyond dispute - more dollars per service are spent in the US than in any other industrialised country.)
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Inor

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There's that socialist medicine for you - even third world countries sometimes give a decent job.

It appears you misunderstood the point of my post.  I paid in cash, no insurance, no government forms, etc.  It was the most "capitalist" transaction I have ever engaged in for medical services and I was quite happy with it.

If you are saying socialized medicine would be a good thing because it would allow for a "black market" to arise for medical services?  I guess you have a point.   ???

De Selby

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It appears you misunderstood the point of my post.  I paid in cash, no insurance, no government forms, etc.  It was the most "capitalist" transaction I have ever engaged in for medical services and I was quite happy with it.

If you are saying socialized medicine would be a good thing because it would allow for a "black market" to arise for medical services?  I guess you have a point.   ???

Yeah, but you got those prices and that level service because of the socialist medical system in place there - I've had the same experience in every "socialist paradise"* where I've had the need to see a doctor.  Walk in, pay my money, get good service at a price that is generally 1/10 of what I'd have paid in the United States.  It can't be coincidence that the only places in the world where you can have that experience are places with socialist medicine.

The reason it works is that, if private practitioners charge too much, customers just go to the public system, which already provides many basic services at a price that is far lower than what you'd pay in the US, even considering all the administrative overhead.  

So you get private shops that offer people more convenience and speed than the government shop, but at a reasonable price.  

What happens when it's all private? Well, that's how it is in the US.  You tell me if you think you could've gotten that deal at anywhere near the same price on the northern side of the border.

*thought I'd list them: Mexico (stomach, unsurprising), Thailand (travel doc), Singapore (family planning), and Australia (all kinds of tests/crap for legal reasons).
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

makattak

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There's that socialist medicine for you - even third world countries sometimes give a decent job.

Jamis, you need to weight the numbers of US medical tourists seeking treatment abroad against those (primarily Latin American and Arab - ie, extremely wealthy, as the poor in those places can't even afford a plane ticket here) tourists coming to the US. 

http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34175_20070917.pdf

There's one study that's been posted before.

It isn't just in lifespan the US falls behind, which is important to considering jfruser's point.

Pretty much every measure (ie, infant mortality, death from treatable illness, cancer, etc) has the US behind the "socialist paradises", lily white or not.  The reason is that health care costs way more, and is therefore far less available to most of the population. 

The US medical system delivers an inferior product (if health outcomes are the relevant measure, anyway) at an extremely inflated price (that one is beyond dispute - more dollars per service are spent in the US than in any other industrialised country.)

Infant mortality statistics are skewed by countries that don't count babies born too early as "infant deaths". We do. Secondly, the demographics of the United States means we have far more early teen pregnancies which cause more pre-term infants.

I will note for you that an infant born pre-term has the best chance of survival in the United States than in any other country. NPR liked to highlight the infant mortality statistic, but here's what a good statistician should have noticed:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2009/11/us_falls_further_behind_europe.html

Quote
So why does a prosperous nation like ours come up so short? The high number of American preterm births-- those before 37 weeks--is the biggest reason.

The U.S. actually compares favorably with Europe in survival of preemies, according to the CDC research. The problem is, there are so many more infants being born too early in the U.S. One in every eight babies born in America is born too early.

In other words, our demographics cause higher numbers of pre-term births. However, our medical care is superior and we save more of those babies than Europe does.

Next, cancer survival rates and the BEST in the United States versus any other country: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/561737

Quote
New reports from EUROCARE suggest that cancer care in Europe is improving and that the gaps between countries are narrowing. However, comparisons with US statistics suggest that cancer survival in Europe is still lagging behind the United States. The reports are published online August 21 in Lancet Oncology and scheduled for the September issue .


I don't know what "survivable illness" is, so I'm not going to try to find those rates.
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So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

makattak

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What happens when it's all private? Well, that's how it is in the US.  You tell me if you think you could've gotten that deal at anywhere near the same price on the northern side of the border.



 :lol:

Yeah, the government already pays for 40% of our healthcare, but "it's all private!".

Pull the other one.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

De Selby

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Mak,

The Government pays, but no one is required to take it.  That's the point - it's still a private business making a decision about what it's going to accept, which is the point of this article.

Also, instead of summary articles, try to post an article with stats (like the one I posted) on your measures - I think you'll have a very hard time finding any hard data sets that show the US ahead in either infant mortality or general cancer survival.  For example, here's some data that says the opposite of what your articles claim:

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Performance-Snapshots/International-Comparisons/International-Comparison--Effectiveness.aspx
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 09:34:44 AM by De Selby »
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."