War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....

[Perd Hapley]

Perhaps a clue why the Russians are doing so poorly if this was actually said by Shamanov
https://www.youtube.com/post/Ugkx-K0r0MtuRzpMNgqBJekkHboh64qGRnau

About that.......

Maybe this explains it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Shamanov

I'm trying to think which American politician would say something that stupid. It's stupider than Sharpton accusing Republicans of thinking we won the Civil War, but less stupid than Hank Johnson's concerns about Guam.

Would Kamala Harris say something that dumb?

Wait, I got it. Joe Biden. That's Biden-level confusion.

[Lennyjoe]

I’m wondering if Putin sent in his second string into Ukraine in case something happened and NATO got involved.  Either that or his military really does suck…

[AZRedhawk44]

While I'm perfectly willing to believe the Russians are torturing people and executing people. (I've seen them do it live) Let's also remember that manipulation is still happening on both sides.  Remain skeptical of everything posted online.  A body in a grave in Ukraine may be just that, Or it may not be a body, a grave, or in Ukraine, or any combination.




Side note:  Honestly, this is what a war looks like.  The US doesn't play by these rules, mostly because we are strong enough we don't have to, but when you have near-peer foes, fighting in cities and towns, this is what happens.  This or worse.  My quip a couple pages ago about not wanting to have to shoot "allies" because of war crimes is based on knowing folks that have had to do exactly that.  Or be complicit.  And that's a shitty decision to make.

Disinformation and propaganda certainly do happen, but I think it's ultimately important to remember who invaded who.

I will grant any defending populace and its Armed Forces, when faced with an offensive invasion of their territory, broad clemency from any asserted "war crimes."  That's how entire nations declare loudly, "get off my lawn."

[De Selby]

Disinformation and propaganda certainly do happen, but I think it's ultimately important to remember who invaded who.

I will grant any defending populace and its Armed Forces, when faced with an offensive invasion of their territory, broad clemency from any asserted "war crimes."  That's how entire nations declare loudly, "get off my lawn."

Palestinians and Iraqis included?

[Perd Hapley]

Palestinians and Iraqis included?

Nope

[RoadKingLarry]

I’m wondering if Putin sent in his second string into Ukraine in case something happened and NATO got involved.  Either that or his military really does suck…

Not mutually exclusive conditions.

[Perd Hapley]

Question: now that Putin is throwing the n-word at anything that moves, does that mean American Leftists will have to stop doing it?

[AZRedhawk44]

Palestinians and Iraqis included?

Yes.  And Afghans, too.

But when the population actively supports aircraft hijacking and mass casualty events and celebrates them, it's also time to clean the ideology pool.  The US and Allies did this with widespread indiscriminate blanket urban bombing in Germany in WWII, and nuclear bombs in Japan.  Those attacks were upon general industrial infrastructure to break the war machine in those countries; in the case of the Middle East, the war machine was a populace and ideology rather than an industrial base.  The war machine was never destroyed.

There will be another ideological war with the Middle East, because it was never resolved in the last one.

[charby]

Yes.  And Afghans, too.

But when the population actively supports aircraft hijacking and mass casualty events and celebrates them, it's also time to clean the ideology pool.  The US and Allies did this with widespread indiscriminate blanket urban bombing in Germany in WWII, and nuclear bombs in Japan.  Those attacks were upon general industrial infrastructure to break the war machine in those countries; in the case of the Middle East, the war machine was a populace and ideology rather than an industrial base.  The war machine was never destroyed.

There will be another ideological war with the Middle East, because it was never resolved in the last one.

Palestine, Iraqi, Afghanistan, et. al. All problems created by western empire builders.

[dogmush]

Palestine, Iraqi, Afghanistan, et. al. All problems created by western empire builders.

Ehh....added to more like.  Empire building certainly didn't help, but it also didn't start the tribalisim and violence in those regions.

[charby]

Ehh....added to more like.  Empire building certainly didn't help, but it also didn't start the tribalisim and violence in those regions.

Tribalism there has been going on forever, didn't help when empire building shoved the tribes into borders and with folks they don't like.

Violence amongst humans is always going to be present when there is a fight for resources, culture and religion. Sometimes it is an everyday thing sometimes it is once a generation or even further, but it will happen.

[Brad Johnson]

There will be another ideological war with the Middle East, because it was never resolved in the last one.

Yeah. With three millennia of entrenched beliefs and ingrained hatred, they won't stop killing each other any time soon.

Brad

[HankB]

Yeah. With three millennia of entrenched beliefs and ingrained hatred, they won't stop killing each other any time soon.

Brad

And of course about 1400 or so years ago Islam came along (probably evolving from earlier beliefs of the desert nomads), and the various factions that it split into don't play well together at all - yet more reason above and beyond the grudges that already existed that helps keep them perpetually cranky.

And anyway, didn't the Moorish invasion of Europe pre-date the West's involvement (beginning with the Crusades) in North Africa and the Middle East?

[charby]

And of course about 1400 or so years ago Islam came along (probably evolving from earlier beliefs of the desert nomads), and the various factions that it split into don't play well together at all - yet more reason above and beyond the grudges that already existed that helps keep them perpetually cranky.

And anyway, didn't the Moorish invasion of Europe pre-date the West's involvement (beginning with the Crusades) in North Africa and the Middle East?

Moors invaded Spain in 711 AD

Alexander the Great 334 BC

[WLJ]

Moors invaded Spain in 711 AD

Alexander the Great 334 BC

And how many times did Persia invade Greece before that

[charby]

And how many times did Persia invade Greece before that

IIRC Persia tried to invade mainland Greece twice.

[dogmush]

IIRC Persia tried to invade mainland Greece twice.

As I recall Persia was beating up on Greece from about 500 BCE to like 450BCE.

Thermopylae was 480 BCE.

[French G.]

When they reach Vienna again will we still blame western adventurism?

[dogmush]

Yes.

We enjoy blaming ourselves.

[Perd Hapley]

Yes.

We enjoy blaming ourselves.

One reason I could never warm up to Ron Paul.

[Hawkmoon]

There will be another ideological war with the Middle East, because it was never resolved in the last one.

I agree.

But I'm not certain the next round will be fought in the Middle East.

[AZRedhawk44]

I agree.

But I'm not certain the next round will be fought in the Middle East.

Which comes around to the point I'm not doing very good at making, and I will try again.

"Rules of war" are ridiculous.

War is the means of resolving conflict when the rules are thrown out the window.  War crimes are just a means of singling out behavior that the victor doesn't like about the loser.  If Muslims won a war with the West, they would re-write War Crimes so that it was a War Crime to be Jewish, Christian, or Atheist.  It would also be a War Crime for a woman to take up arms against a man.  But we Westerners are eager for things like hot Jewish IDF soldiers or that Kurd all-female unit.  Partly because hawt chicks, and partly because we KNOW it absolutely infuriates the Muslims to think of being killed by a woman.

The "rules of war" we think are in effect now are not going to be the same if the West ever loses a war with the Middle East, or China, or Space Aliens.  Those factions won't take it easy on uniformed soldiers vs un-uniformed irregulars/spies.  They will wipe the Western ideology off the map the second they have victory and Allah or The Party or The Hive Mind will become the entity which takes offense at the actions of the losers.  Geneva Conventions?  Geneva was nuked, or hit with an asteroid, or Allah burned it in His holy wrath (peace be upon His name). 

I don't care about rules of war.  I care about who is right.

If party A is on party B's lawn, actively trying to take *expletive deleted*it and kill people... party B can pull out the Garand and get to work.  I don't care about the uniform or the rules, and I'm going to take a lackadaisical disinterest in ethics complaints from party A after the fact.

[WLJ]

Could be more to this don't know. But on the surface it looks like YT bowing to the Chinese.

Wang Jixian, a resident of Odesa for the past four years, said he had been posting videos of the Russian invasion to counter China's narrative of what was happening in the country. He says he had received multiple messages not to "provoke" Beijing.

YouTube suspends channel of Chinese vlogger reporting on Ukraine
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60991746?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=624d00ea4f71af55b4616dac%26YouTube%20suspends%20channel%20of%20Chinese%20vlogger%20reporting%20on%20Ukraine%262022-04-06T03%3A30%3A51.703Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:6d02f5df-d81f-4849-baeb-83b9991f92f8&pinned_post_asset_id=624d00ea4f71af55b4616dac&pinned_post_type=share

[WLJ]

Drone video of trenches excavated by #Russia`ns in the #Chernobyl radiation area.
https://twitter.com/eskelinen_antti/status/1511604470286675974

[WLJ]