Fortress safe recall

[WLJ]

Fortress Safe has recalled 61,000 biometric gun safes which use fingerprint technology to unlock after a child managed to open one and kill himself.

The US Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) and Fortress ordered the withdrawal of the safes from the market because the biometric reader on the lock can be opened by unauthorized users.

It is unclear how or why the glitch has occured. 

In their recall, the government agency said they are aware of a lawsuit against Fortress alleging a 12-year-old died after obtaining a firearm from one of these safes and shot himself. Further details on the tragic incident - including the boy's identity - have not been disclosed.

CPSC said there have been 39 incidents of consumers reporting that their safes have been accessed by unpaired fingerprints.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12650811/Fortress-recalls-biometric-gun-safes.html

[HeroHog]

Cheap biometrics, just say "No." Watch all the hacking vids out there on the subject.

[dogmush]

Cheap biometrics, just say "No." Watch all the hacking vids out there on the subject.

I'll bet that's what the 12 Year Old did.

[K Frame]

No biometrics, no electronics as far as I'm concerned. I'm not even a huge fan of Simplex locks.

[cordex]

No biometrics, no electronics as far as I'm concerned. I'm not even a huge fan of Simplex locks.

Just stick them in a box and weld it shut.  Anything else is bound to fail.

[MechAg94]

Just stick them in a box and weld it shut.  Anything else is bound to fail.

That would at least give you some flood protection.   

[K Frame]

Just stick them in a box and weld it shut.  Anything else is bound to fail.

 


S&G spin dial lock or a tubular pin tumbler lock.

One of the multi-dial combination locks is also sort of acceptable, although I've found most of those to be fairly easy to defeat.

I've yet to see an S&G spin dial lock fail so thoroughly that it has required drilling. I've seen 4 or 5 electronic "locks" that have failed so completely that the only way to override them was by destructive means. Most of those have been cheap Chinese, but at least one was an S&G electronic lock.

[cordex]

S&G spin dial lock or a tubular pin tumbler lock.

I don't disagree that electronic locks are currently much more likely to fail.

S&G makes good locks, but according to my safe guy, the people who like to spin them like they are on Wheel of Fortune are going to have problems at some point.

Tubular pin tumbler?  No thanks.  Maybe if you're just trying to keep kids out of a pistol cabinet.  And you don't love the gun inside.  You can buy impressioning tools for dirt cheap on Amazon that will not just open the lock without any skill in two or three seconds, but in the process give you the exact code you need to have a new key cut.

[K Frame]

I doubt if a 12-year-old, as described in the original story that kicked this off, is going to get himself an impression kit on Amazon...

[dogmush]

https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-tool-designed-boys-practically/dp/ 

I just grabbed that one because I liked the name.  There are plenty more.  If you think 12 year olds don't use Amazon, you're on crack.

[K Frame]

I never said that kids don't use Amazon. 

I said I really doubt that many are going to go looking for a keying set in the same manner that they're likely to see one either play with a combination lock or a biometrics pad.

And your page link is dead. So... security!

[dogmush]

And your page link is dead. So... security!

Trimmed too much off the URL when I dropped the search parameters.

https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-tool-designed-boys-practically/dp/B0CBDM2LSG/

[cordex]

I doubt if a 12-year-old, as described in the original story that kicked this off, is going to get himself an impression kit on Amazon...

Sure, like I said, if the reason you own a safe is to keep a child out it might work okay.

So is that why you choose tubular locks?

[K Frame]

As I noted, I've found many multi-dial combo locks to be relatively easy to defeat. I don't see them as being particularly secure.

Tubular pin locks are more difficult to pick than standard straight key locks, so they provide an additional layer of security in a quick access cabinet or a car vault.

Tubular pin locks are more difficult to pick by hand or by bumping them. Impossible? No. But I've never been able to open a tubular pin lock with an Xacto knife the way I have been able to do with a traditional pin or wafer straight key lock.

[cordex]

As I noted, I've found many multi-dial combo locks to be relatively easy to defeat. I don't see them as being particularly secure.

Agreed.  Not a good choice.

Tubular pin locks are more difficult to pick than standard straight key locks, so they provide an additional layer of security in a quick access cabinet or a car vault.

If it comes down to picking, no tubular locks aren't more difficult.  Heck, when I was younger we'd impression them with appropriately sized ballpoint pens.  The newer tools are better and faster but tubular locks are not in any way an "additional layer of security" over any but the absolute worst pin tumbler or wafer locks.

If you're strictly talking about a quick access cabinet or car vault then sure, tubular locks would be fine.  But so would any halfway decent pin tumbler.  There are a variety of other lock designs out there (dimple keys, disk tumblers, etc) that would work in that application as well.  Hell, in that application an electronic/biometric option could be just fine.

Tubular pin locks are more difficult to pick by hand or by bumping them. Impossible? No. But I've never been able to open a tubular pin lock with an Xacto knife the way I have been able to do with a traditional pin or wafer straight key lock.

There are absolutely some total crap pin/tumbler locks out there, but that doesn't make tubular locks inherently better.

[K Frame]

IF you have a lock pick specifically for tubular pin locks, no, they are not particularly difficult to pick.

Otherwise, yes, they are considered to be more difficult to pick. Are they a huge jump in security? No. But they do provide a jump.

[cordex]

IF you have a lock pick specifically for tubular pin locks, no, they are not particularly difficult to pick.

You mean a specialty tool like a ballpoint pen?

[K Frame]

I've never seen one picked with a ball point pen.

Just for grins, I entered "are tubular pin locks more difficult to pick" as a general google question.

A variety of lock smith/lock shop websites came up, with most agreeing that yes, they are more difficult to pick and provide additional security.

Similar results come up for "are tubular pin locks more secure".

Whatever.

[K Frame]

Oh, and let's not lose sight of the concept that locks aren't secure, they just provide additional levels of security, from very little to a lot, depending on their quality and complexity.

The quality is the biggest rub, I think. I've seen some absolute CRAP locks on security cabinets and small hotel-style safes, to the point that it would probably be more secure to hide what you have in your "safe" under your mattress.

[cordex]

I should probably distinguish between bypassing the lock and true picking which certainly can require special turning tools and skills.  But a bypass is sort of more to the point.

I've never seen one picked with a ball point pen.

I'm not at all surprised, but here you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF1KF_nyCCw
https://youtu.be/egtn7swD_Jg?t=44
https://youtu.be/9Eky9yZfZFQ?t=126

[K Frame]

Well isn't that a nifty little trick. I'll admit, that was not what I was thinking when you said "ballpoint pen."

I'm going to have to try that on my Kryptonite when I get home.

Basically a circular Xacto knife.

[dogmush]

^^^

That's how my friends and I used to get free sodas from the machines.  That and a dollar bill with about 12" of clear tape on it.

[K Frame]

^^^

That's how my friends and I used to get free sodas from the machines.  That and a dollar bill with about 12" of clear tape on it.

Reprobate

[HeroHog]

Strange, I'm getting an error trying to post something here:

Internal Server Error
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Please contact the server administrator at webmaster@armedpolitesociety.com to inform them of the time this error occurred, and the actions you performed just before this error.

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[HeroHog]

My small safe has both a combination lock and a 4 bladed key. The combo is a bit strange and even with the combo in hand, it can take a few tries to get right.