Child abuse within a religious setting: now for the Witnesses

[MillCreek]

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/03/the-secret-jehovahs-witness-database-of-child-molesters/584311/

First the Catholics, then the Southern Baptists and now come the Jehovah Witnesses.

[makattak]

I didn't see the Southern Baptist scandal. Is this it?

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/Southern-Baptist-sexual-abuse-spreads-as-leaders-13588038.php

[MillCreek]

I didn't see the Southern Baptist scandal. Is this it?

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/Southern-Baptist-sexual-abuse-spreads-as-leaders-13588038.php

Yes, at least the one that I recall reading about earlier this year.

[makattak]

Yes, at least the one that I recall reading about earlier this year.

As a Southern Baptist, I'm probably too close to comment on that one, but I'll just note that while one victim is horrific and too many, 700 victims in a population of 15 million doesn't appear systemic to me. (Especially over 20 years.)

On the Jehovah's Witnesses, though, that looks unimaginably evil. An estimate of 1.5% of the group are molestors??!?? That's significantly above the average for the general population.

When you curtail people's social interaction to only those in the group, it makes people easier to control. (Which is why cults do that.)

[makattak]

When you curtail people's social interaction to only those in the group, it makes people easier to control. (Which is why cults do that.)

Related to this, I'm reminded of how the left seems to be doing everything it can to purge dissenters from their entire lives, not just from the movement.

Scary the parallels.

[Hawkmoon]

More proof that my decision to eschew organized religion was correct.

[BlueStarLizzard]

More proof that my decision to eschew organized religion was correct.

It's not so much organized religion as it is cult like behavior. I don't trust any of these "religions" that require isolation and secrecy from their followers. Scientology, JW's and Mormons (and yes, I know their are Mormon's on this board) are in that list.

If your religion can't take the true scrutiny of the outside world and survive, then you might as well not bother and if you're faith can't handle it, then your faith isn't really worth much, now is it?

[HeroHog]

People with "power" will abuse that "power". Applies to religious leaders, org leaders (Scouts, Camp, etc.) and the like.

Power corrupts.
Absolute Power corrupts absolutely.

[Perd Hapley]

More proof that my decision to eschew organized religion was correct.

Yeah, that's reasonable. 

[Hawkmoon]

Yeah, that's reasonable. 

It is to me. It's hardly the only time an organized religion (or official representatives thereof) has utterly failed me. I haven't led a service or given a sermon for more than twenty years, and if I were asked to do so today I don't think I would be interested.

[230RN]

More proof that my decision to eschew organized religion was correct.

Hear, hear !

(Except sub "evidence" for "proof.")

[Perd Hapley]

Am I to believe the world would be a better place if people didn't cooperate or coordinate or even meet with each other, over the subject of religion? Why?

[Hawkmoon]

Am I to believe the world would be a better place if people didn't cooperate or coordinate or even meet with each other, over the subject of religion? Why?

You are free to believe whatever you want. I believe the world would be a better place if leaders of major organized religions didn't cover up criminal activity by their members and their clergy.

[Pb]

It is my understanding the JW will shun anyone who leaves the church.

I heard a woman say her family cut off ties with her when she left.

[makattak]

It is my understanding the JW will shun anyone who leaves the church.

I heard a woman say her family cut off ties with her when she left.

That's in the article, in fact.

[MechAg94]

1.  Yes, it is bad when organizations cover up for bad things done by members.  That behavior is not unique to Religious organizations.  It bothers me that members are not more outraged and ticked off about this, but maybe I don't hear about that.  I wonder if part of it is they think it isn't their pastor or parish that is involved in this stuff, it is that other one over there.  I always wondered why we didn't see stories about angry parents and dead clergy.

2.  It is the responsibility of the parents to protect their kids.  They shouldn't make assumptions about anyone just because they are in a particular group.  Do parents put the group on a pedestal higher than their kids?  It appears so.

3.  I don't equate my Christian Faith to any particular Christian Religious Organization.  That might be because I never belonged to any of them.  The non-denominational Church I grew up with did not claim any special status.  I have heard that is not the case with some, but some of you may know more on that.

[Ron]

Do western nations that have abandoned their organized religious institutions, like Great Britain, have a lower incidence of sexual molestation coverups?

Do non-western nations with different organized religions have a lower incidence of sexual molestation coverups?

Do nations that have no organized religions and have opposed organized religion have a better track record regarding molestation and subsequent coverups? China, old USSR other communist countries?

There are always wolves among the sheep and there are always those who hold protecting their institution as being more important than protecting actual people.

[Perd Hapley]

You are free to believe whatever you want. I believe the world would be a better place if leaders of major organized religions didn't cover up criminal activity by their members and their clergy.

I'm pretty sure it would be a better place if we didn't try to blame religion for the fact that people can be monsters.

[Hawkmoon]

I don't blame religion for the existence of monsters. I do blame religion for protecting the monsters in their midst ... to the point that they (the religious leaders) enable the monsters to continue their nefarious activities.

[dogmush]

Do western nations that have abandoned their organized religious institutions, like Great Britain, have a lower incidence of sexual molestation coverups?

Do non-western nations with different organized religions have a lower incidence of sexual molestation coverups?

Do nations that have no organized religions and have opposed organized religion have a better track record regarding molestation and subsequent coverups? China, old USSR other communist countries?

There are always wolves among the sheep and there are always those who hold protecting their institution as being more important than protecting actual people.

That's a lot of variables.  A more relevant question would be do children in the United States that don't attend organized religious services have a higher or lower incidence of being molested than children in the United States that do attend organized religious services.  That is a question I admit I have no idea the answer to, and I'm not sure it's ever been rigorously studied.

However, Hawkmoon's other statement is really the crux of the matter.  It's not that there are monsters in religious institutions, indeed there are monsters everywhere.  It's that it sure seems like Religious institutions are pretty likely to protect themselves (and the monsters) at the expense of children.  The organization shouldn't be condemned just because some folks in it are bad, but at some point (and, for example, the Catholic Church is well past that point) enough of the hierarchy of an institution is involved in aiding and abetting abuse that it becomes fair to condemn the institution as a whole. 

Everyone has their own experiences and stories, but institutionalized predation of children, and the covering up of same in several different denominations across large swaths of the US, is part of what drove me from Christianity in my 20's. 

[JN01]

More proof that my decision to eschew organized religion was correct.

Are you a proponent of disorganized religion?

[Jamisjockey]

As a Southern Baptist, I'm probably too close to comment on that one, but I'll just note that while one victim is horrific and too many, 700 victims in a population of 15 million doesn't appear systemic to me. (Especially over 20 years.)

If the molestation is done by clergy and covered up by the organization, one is systemic.

[JN01]

I would submit that there are organizations of many types that cover up sexual and other types of misconduct to protect their members and/or image.  The bigger the institution, the more examples there are likely to be, which in turn, makes it seem even more horrific.  Some are worse than others, of course.

[dogmush]

I would submit that there are organizations of many types that cover up sexual and other types of misconduct to protect their members and/or image.  The bigger the institution, the more examples there are likely to be, which in turn, makes it seem even more horrific.  Some are worse than others, of course.

I would submit that those organizations should all be called out, and if they don't reform, should be dismantled.  If you are a member of, and contribute to the success of, an organization of any type that covers up and enables child abuse, what does that make you?

I'm not calling people specifically out, but shouldn't people ask themselves that question?

[grampster]

I was raised Catholic.  Went to Catholic school from 1 to 8.  Altar boy.  We had two priests, one grumpy, old Irishman with one lung, and the other, we were told, was a boxer.  He was a bombastic guy and all of boys admired him.  Neither of them laid a hand on any of us, even though many of us wound up doing work around the church, and the priest's residence.  The teachers were nuns.  I spent a good deal of time doing chores in the convent because I was cough, ahem, a bit rowdy and needed an unpaid side job to burn some energy.  Nuns didn't molest me or anyone else that I know of.

I went to the public high school because we couldn't afford the $35.00 a year that had to be paid to continue the Catholic high school.  While I was there, one of the teachers suddenly disappeared, and a couple days later we found out he'd been arrested for molesting one of the high school girls.  That didn't surprise me at all.  When I was in 8th grade at the catholic school, the public high school teacher took admittance money for high school football and track events.  He let some of us grade school kids from the area into the shack to help with that.  With me, he stood behind me and put his hands in my front pant pockets and started groping me.  I jumped away and punched him and ran out of the shack.  I never told anyone till later when we found out about the public high school girl.  Seems I wasn't the only kid he groped in that shack.