Author Topic: Saint Louis goes dark again  (Read 1680 times)

Perd Hapley

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Saint Louis goes dark again
« on: December 04, 2006, 10:26:57 AM »
You may recall that the Saint Louis area experienced a week-long power outage last summer - somewhere in the hundreds of thousands of houses without power.  Well, we had a beautiful ice-storm Thurs. night, and it's all happening again.  Only this time I own a house and I have pipes that could freeze up.  The temp in the house was actually holding steady in the mid-fifties until Sat. night.  The kerosene heater in the basement isn't having much effect on the overall temperature, but I hope it's keeping the pipes from freezing overnight.  Time will tell. 

Fortunately, the apartments where I work have been on since noon Friday, so that's a lot of weight off my mind.  And a friend of ours is letting us stay with her, including our doggie.  And it looks like we'll get above freezing the next two days, woo-hoo!   
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280plus

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2006, 10:29:33 AM »
If you're in real danger of freezing pipes I suggest you crack all your faucets and let the water trickle out of them, this SHOULD prevent frozen bursting pipes.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2006, 10:37:48 AM »
Yup, it definitely sounds like you oughta drain your pipes.  Save the kerosene heat for your family.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2006, 10:56:31 AM »
How does one do this drainage thingie?  I have been running water out of a couple of my faucets. 
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2006, 11:21:09 AM »
Go to the basement where the water meter is. Turn the valve off there. Then open all of the faucets in the house, including the faucets in the basement.

Once your heat is back on, and you're ready to fill the water pipes again, turn the water back on at the meter, and run around the house turning all of the faucets off. You're going to hear some clunking from the pipes, and you'll see rusty water coming out of the faucets for a minute or so. That's normal.

Bursting water pipes can really ruin your home.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2006, 12:42:05 PM »
Hmmm...

Would have been nice to get that advice a long time ago.  Thanks, folks.  In the past few days, ONE person has mentioned that to me, and then the conversation ran off in another direction and I forgot to ask about it. 
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wingnutx

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2006, 12:51:46 PM »
Bursting pipes took out the ceiling of my in-laws living room last week.

meinbruder

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2006, 03:22:28 PM »
Go to the basement where the water meter is. Turn the valve off there. Then open all of the faucets in the house, including the faucets in the basement.

If you're lucky, you might see a drain-cock not far from the meter in the basement, it should look like an ordinary hose bib.  The In-laws house in Rhode Island had one three feet from the meter, conveniently next to a floor drain.  Any standing water left in an exterior wall below a faucet could still freeze, you would find out the hard way after turning the water back on when you get power back.  If the pipes are in the interior walls it will need to get below freezing for a long time to effect them.  It would be a good idea to add one when the household budget allows.
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Sindawe

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2006, 03:49:37 PM »
Quote
Bursting water pipes can really ruin your home.
WATER can really ruin a home.  My neighbor had the water tank on the toilet in his place break just after he left for three weeks.  $23,000 damage on just the one level that took damage.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2006, 04:23:04 AM »
I indeed found a shut-off just below the meter.  I wasn't surprised that it started dripping as soon as I touched it.  Old shut-offs will often drip when you're handling them and seal off again once fully closed or opened.  But this guy kept dripping.  I trained the flashlight on it more fully, and saw that the bottom half of the bonnet nut (the side toward the floor) had rusted right off.  It was dripping pretty steadily, but I'm afraid any attempt to tighten the bonnet nut will result in it breaking off the valve entirely, letting the water gush out.  It looks like I'll have to shut off the water before it reaches the house, and then repair the valve.  I'll probably get a plumber to do that, especially since the floor drain needs cabling out anyway.  Of course, that wouldn't be a problem if I would get around to digging out that window well.  Smiley
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2006, 04:24:32 AM »
Yup, it definitely sounds like you oughta drain your pipes.  Save the kerosene heat for your family.
Thanks for the concern, but we're actually staying with someone.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

meinbruder

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2006, 07:37:50 AM »
I indeed found a shut-off just below the meter.  I wasn't surprised that it started dripping as soon as I touched it.  Old shut-offs will often drip when you're handling them and seal off again once fully closed or opened.  But this guy kept dripping.  I trained the flashlight on it more fully, and saw that the bottom half of the bonnet nut (the side toward the floor) had rusted right off. 

It sounds like that valve could break if you handle it much more.  It might be a good idea to have the utility company turn off the valve coming into the house if it isnt bronze or brass, take a good hard look at it before turning the handle.  If its galvanized, which it sounds like the shut-off is, its likely to be in similar condition.  The water main let go under my place for the same reason, what a mess.   
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2006, 08:16:38 AM »
Meinbruder, I'm definitely not touching it again, unless I just have to turn my water on before I can get it fixed.  Now you've got me wondering if this equipment might belong to the water company.  But that's probably wishful thinking. 
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Bogie

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2006, 04:10:33 PM »
Just find where the water enters the house, and pack really well with dry ice. Then, while it's frozen, you can cut off the offending piece and replace it.

(learned from a guerilla plumber 10 years ago in Benton Park... the "freeze zone" was out at the street connection, and the "replace" was the line between the street and the basement. From "cut" to "here it comes" was maybe 15 minutes, and that was more than enough time to sweat the pre-cut fittings...)
 
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meinbruder

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2006, 05:30:28 PM »
Meinbruder, I'm definitely not touching it again, unless I just have to turn my water on before I can get it fixed.  Now you've got me wondering if this equipment might belong to the water company.  But that's probably wishful thinking. 

You might want to call the water company and ask that question.  My understanding is that anything from the meter to the house and in, belongs to the homeowner; anything from the meter out, is theirs.  Here on the west coast, the meter is at the curb so it's easy to see where the boundary is.  The failure of a fitting on "my" side of the meter is my problem, and vis-versa.  IIRC you said the meter was in the basement, if so the rules would be different so do call and ask.  Not paying for a potentially expense repair should make your Christmas a little brighter. 

If the meter is in the basement, how do they read it to asses the bill and usage?  In Portland, OR. the meter is read at the curb; flip up the top of the box and jot down the number.  Just like the electric meter on the side of the garage or the gas meter on the front of the house, the reader walks up, takes the number, and walks away.

BTW... that fitting could rupture and flood the building, with pressure on that side, if the nut is in the shape you described.  It would be a very good idea to turn off the water to the building if you can.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2006, 08:44:04 PM »
Ya know, it occurs to me now that I have family in St Louis who might be at risk for frozen pipes.  They know how to drain their plumbing, but that's not the problem.  Their house has a heating system that uses a boiler to heat water which is circulated through a series of pipes in the walls and floors all around the house.  With the power out the thermostat won't be able to control the gas boiler, so they won't have any heat.  If any of those froze, it would be Bad News.

Do any of our resident HVAC gurus know how to handle a situation like this?

Perd Hapley

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2006, 05:10:36 PM »
Nearly a week later, we are powerful once again.  Smiley  Unfortunately, the water problem remains unaddressed.  And the house smells very much like kerosene.   sad
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2006, 07:41:00 AM »
Two weeks later, and finally recovering from the effects of the power-outage.  The power was restored last Thursday morning, almost a week after things went dark on Thursday night.  This past Thursday, I finally got the water company to come out and shut off the water.  I couldn't get a plumber until Friday.  He replaced the main, but didn't have a key to turn the water back on.   rolleyes  "No, we don't have anybody else in the area with a key."  The water company won't turn on my water, as they tell me the stop-box outside belongs to me.   rolleyes  Like I wanted one of those.  So, Friday night - oh, wait, I forgot about the U-joint that failed on my old truck on Friday afternoon, grounding it.  Anyway, I borrowed a water key from a friend of mine on Friday night, and tried to turn things on.  No luck.  That thing is about three feet down, and covered in dirt.  I couldn't even tell if I got the tool in the right place.  So, I tried again this morning.  The guy from the water company had a handle on his key at least two feet long.  The handle on this one was about one foot.  Without an equal amount of leverage, I coudn't turn my water back on.  Finally, I found a piece of steel bed-frame downstairs, and duct-taped it on to the key to make a longer handle.  I had just about given up hope, when I happened to get the tool in the right spot, and with the extra leverage, the valve turned very smoothly.  So, we've got light, heat and water again.  Now to clean up the mess in here from one week in darkness, and from two days without water.  

On the bright side, I have found that Goof Off safely removes the paint from my newly uncovered hardwood floor.  Once we can get the molding around the doors and install and paint the baseboard, we can actually move into the house we've been camping in for months.  Not that I can haul any molding without my truck.  Smiley

I know what some of you are thinking.  "Shouldn't the plumber have had a key to turn the water on and off?  No need to wait for the water company."  You're right.  You see, this house came with a "home protection plan."  I call them, and they send out a local contractor.  They sent out County Plumbing, St. Charles, Missouri.  Remember that name, that you may hate it as I do.  One of these doofuses came out on Monday, while my wife was at home, and said they couldn't turn off the water without digging up the stop-box, which is located right in the roots of a large tree.  Their price was twelve-hundred dollars, and this would not be covered by my plan.  I think they actually were afraid something would break, and it would be their fault.  Or maybe they wanted to replace the whole main out to the stop-box.  Whatever.  At this point, I thought the stop-box belonged to the water company.  So, I called them thinking if they had to dig it up, it would be on their dime.  Of course, no digging was necessary, just a turn of the water key.  So, if they had sent out some other plumber to begin with, I might have gotten someone who would just turn off the water, replace the old valve in the basement, and turn things back on.  One hour, altogether, no time spent without water.  
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2006, 07:56:39 AM »
Ain't life grand?

Perd Hapley

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2006, 08:24:37 AM »
It sure is.  I forgot to mention that my wife's been nursing a tooth-ache this whole time, and will finally get her root canal on Monday.  Or that her car is having the same shimmy it developed a long time ago.  Or the flat tire I got last Saturday, which would be about the twelfth flat I've had in the past year-and-a-half.  Or that my job is pushing me toward a nervous break-down, but I don't expect to be able to look for a new one until we can get settled in the house sometime after Christmas.

Hey, at least Uncle Sam can't ship me off to Iraq anymore, since I got out.  Wait a minute, that might not be so bad.  I'm re-enlisting.   smiley
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2006, 11:54:31 AM »
When it rains it pours, Fistful. Sorry you're having so many problems.

Makes my life seem like a cakewalk.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2006, 12:18:13 PM »
Sheesh, leg, now you make me feel guilty.  We're not dealing with any major health or criminal problems in my family, so I guess we're doing alright.  Daddy, my mechanic, came out to look at my bum U-joint.  Which turned out to be loose lug-nuts.  Hee-hee. 

But, I now have a clogged drain.  Luckily, it's backing up out of a floor-drain outside of the house.  With any luck, it won't get into the basement before I can have it cabled out on Monday.
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2006, 12:53:50 PM »
Hey, if I had twelve flat tires in eighteen months, that alone would be enough to put me in a bad mood. Wink

Perd Hapley

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2006, 04:17:41 PM »
Believe me, it did nothing for my frame of mind.  I started a thread about it some time ago.  Looks like this might be tire number 11, or maybe I forgot about one of them.  This tire also popped loose from the aluminum rim (truck).  Poppa thinks it's because of the prolonged freezing temps we had. 

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=3545.msg52696#msg52696
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meinbruder

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Re: Saint Louis goes dark again
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2006, 04:27:09 PM »
I know what some of you are thinking.  "Shouldn't the plumber have had a key to turn the water on and off?  No need to wait for the water company."

Hmmm.  The stop box is a mystery to me; they must do these things very differently in the mid-west.  The meter at the curb, here in Portland, has a simple gate valve and a key can be purchased at the local hardware store.  I suppose the depth of your stop box is to protect it from freezing in winter, if so a three-foot key should be a common item at the local Ace Hardware.  When the water main broke under the house I improvised a key out of a 2x2, notching the sides to create a flat bladed screwdriver an inch and a half wide by three quarter thick at the end of the blade and it worked fine. 
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