Author Topic: Electrical wizards - could stun guns be lethal weapons if...  (Read 1045 times)

Stand_watie

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Electrical wizards - could stun guns be lethal weapons if...
« on: October 14, 2006, 07:25:36 PM »
Electrical wizards - could stun guns be lethal weapons if manufactured specifically with the intent to kill?

No particular reason for the question, except I just saw a video of "Chad Vader, day shift manager", and it made me question if we have current technology that is "light saber" equivalent in terms of lethality.

To restate the question, could you put the voltage/amperage in a "stun gun" of the size/weight of those on the market today, that would be generally lethal?
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Azrael256

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Electrical wizards - could stun guns be lethal weapons if...
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2006, 07:46:48 PM »
Nope.  Ain't enough juice in a battery that will fit in a stun gun to give enough voltage to push into the body, enough amperage to mess with nerve function, and enough duration to cause so much as a palpitation.

Beef it up in weight and size to something that would fit in a good backpack, and it might work.  Thing is, shot placement counts.  You have to interrupt the heart's nerve controls, or depolarize the brain.  Both require current to flow in certain places.

Stand_watie

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Electrical wizards - could stun guns be lethal weapons if...
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2006, 08:15:12 PM »
Quote from: Azrael256
Nope.  Ain't enough juice in a battery that will fit in a stun gun to give enough voltage to push into the body, enough amperage to mess with nerve function, andenough duration to cause so much as a palpitation.

Beef it up in weight and size to something that would fit in a good backpack, and it might work.  Thing is, shot placement counts.  You have to interrupt the heart's nerve controls, or depolarize the brain.  Both require current to flow in certain places.
So what would be your weight estimate of what you think would be required to make a portable, electrical device lethal?

I'll admit I don't entirely understand the whole voltage/amperage thing. I have an electric fence for my dogs that puts out 800+ volts that hurts like the dickens to get shocked by (and btw, my farmer neighbors, told me "Oh, noooo, you need way more than that to keep cows in") yet I understand it is more or less harmless, yet my 120 volt electric outlets could hypothetically kill me.
Yizkor. Lo Od Pa'am

"You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers"

"Never again"

"Malone Labe"

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Electrical wizards - could stun guns be lethal weapons if...
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2006, 08:19:32 PM »
Yup, location matters more than power.  It only takes a few miliamps through the heart to shut it down, but getting current to flow through the heart isn't easy.  You'd probably need to place the stun gun's electrodes on opposite sides of the body, so that current flows through the torso.  Conventional stun guns just wouldn't cut it, their electrodes are too close together.

A stun gun with a single electrode at a very high potential relative to earth gound might work.  Hit somebody with that electrode somewher high on the body and current might flow out of the stun gun, down the body, out the feet and into the ground.  With luck some of that current would pass through the heart and shut it down.  

I've no idea how you might build such a device, though.  The problem is that once that current exits the body it would need a return path back into the stun gun.  You'd have to walk around with your stun gun permantly plugged into a ground rod or dragging a big wire on the ground.  KCL is a real bitch sometimes.  

I'll stick with my 1911 and Benchmade for self defense, thanks.

280plus

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Electrical wizards - could stun guns be lethal weapons if...
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2006, 02:31:30 AM »
How about a plug in stun gun?

"Hold on a minute there beserk person while I plug in my stun gun. Anyone see an outlet around here?"

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Azrael256

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Electrical wizards - could stun guns be lethal weapons if...
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2006, 08:50:29 AM »
Quote
I'll admit I don't entirely understand the whole voltage/amperage thing.
Ok, here's the (oversimplified) way it works.  Voltage is pressure.  You need a certain amount of pressure to get through skin, clothing, etc. into the body.  We'll say a good 300kV should do nicely most of the time.  Then, you need current.  Current is volume of flow.  A taser or the like will only handle something like 3mA.  We need a bare minimum of ~150mA, but something on the order of 3-5A would pretty well ensure a kill.

So, under ideal conditions (which vary more for electrical devices than for firearms), we need to push 300kV with enough hoss to handle up to 3A.  That's roughly a megawatt.  For reference, you can run a small locomotive on a megawatt.

All devices used to put electrical current into the body use tricks to improve conductivity, thereby dramatically reducing voltage requirements.  Hence the blue goo on the defibrolator paddles.  It helps the shock penetrate the very high resistance of the skin.  If you were to design a taser with enough ballistic power to penetrate a couple inches into the body, preferably in the torso, you could probably get enough juice out of a car battery or three to do some real damage.  'Course, by that point, you've basically got an ordinary firearm with an unnecessarily complex electrical system.

Preacherman

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Electrical wizards - could stun guns be lethal weapons if...
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2006, 08:51:53 AM »
Hit someone hard enough with a stun gun and you'll kill him, all right . . .

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CAnnoneer

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Electrical wizards - could stun guns be lethal weapons if...
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2006, 09:43:39 AM »
If you want lethality in a "raygun", consider a microwave laser instead. Anyone microwaved a raw egg? Hehehehe...

BillBlank

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Electrical wizards - could stun guns be lethal weapons if...
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2006, 11:48:28 AM »
I'm waiting for the first man portable carbon arc laser. Fond memories of sitting on daddies knee watching Sci fi (dr Who methinks) and daddy talking about real death rays that were truck portable.
Just so happens Satan's behind the bar pulling the late shift for a buddy...