Author Topic: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways  (Read 7614 times)

RoadKingLarry

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Tallpine

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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2013, 10:04:23 AM »
WTF?  SLC has long runways.

Must be the altitude, but it was in the winter/spring so it wasn't that hot.

Scared the crap out of me - rotated and lifted off and there was dirt below.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2013, 11:00:19 AM »
Must be the altitude, but it was in the winter/spring so it wasn't that hot.

Scared the crap out of me - rotated and lifted off and there was dirt below.

I'm sure Tony can elaborate more on this, but I've seen planes that are clearly at speed stay on the runway while building more speed before rotating.  I'd imagine maybe it's to get a faster initial climb rate.
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Tallpine

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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2013, 11:34:36 AM »
I'm sure Tony can elaborate more on this, but I've seen planes that are clearly at speed stay on the runway while building more speed before rotating.  I'd imagine maybe it's to get a faster initial climb rate.

Well, it sure gets a faster heart rate  :lol:

Unlike most passengers, I actually pay attention to what the aircraft is doing.
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Gewehr98

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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2013, 07:53:38 PM »
Takeoff rotation is predicated on the flight data done prior to starting engines.  S1 airspeed is calculated, as is V1.  S1 is decision, V1 is rotate. V1 can be quite a ways down the runway, especially to somebody observing from the outside.  ;)
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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2013, 08:06:12 AM »
Takeoff rotation is predicated on the flight data done prior to starting engines.  S1 airspeed is calculated, as is V1.  S1 is decision, V1 is rotate. V1 can be quite a ways down the runway, especially to somebody observing from the outside.  ;)

That must be the military version, but it is close to the civilian version.

V1 is decision speed.  If everything is working right, keep going. If not, stop.
VR is rotation speed.  Time to rotate the nose upwards and takeoff.
V2 is engine-out climb speed.

The speeds are based on weight, density altitude, runway length, aircraft limitations, and initial climb requirements. Generally speaking, more speed is more better, but it has to be balanced with available runway to stop on. The speeds are planned for the worst case scenario: engine failure at V1, then continue the takeoff and climb. More speed on the ground equals more energy for the initial climb.

When I takeoff out of Ft Myers, FL (RSW) the V1 speed is usually pretty high because RSW has a 12,000 ft long runway. Lots of room to stop if needed.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2013, 08:46:27 AM »
That must be the military version, but it is close to the civilian version.

V1 is decision speed.  If everything is working right, keep going. If not, stop.
VR is rotation speed.  Time to rotate the nose upwards and takeoff.
V2 is engine-out climb speed.

The speeds are based on weight, density altitude, runway length, aircraft limitations, and initial climb requirements. Generally speaking, more speed is more better, but it has to be balanced with available runway to stop on. The speeds are planned for the worst case scenario: engine failure at V1, then continue the takeoff and climb. More speed on the ground equals more energy for the initial climb.

When I takeoff out of Ft Myers, FL (RSW) the V1 speed is usually pretty high because RSW has a 12,000 ft long runway. Lots of room to stop if needed.


I had to explain this to a co worker when a DC9 used most of the 9,000 footer the other day.  But she's a little dumb anyways.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2013, 05:14:14 PM »
I had to explain this to a co worker when a DC9 used most of the 9,000 footer the other day.  But she's a little dumb anyways.


If you really want to scramble her brain, ask her what powers the wheels on the ground.
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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2013, 07:42:46 PM »
If you really want to scramble her brain, ask her what powers the wheels on the ground.

Fission engine.
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Tallpine

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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2013, 10:11:10 AM »
Looking back on it, I'm thinking that after taxing at SLC for thirty or forty minutes, the pilots just forgot how to fly and were going to drive all the way to California - right up until they saw the end of the runway and decided maybe they better do something else  =D

Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2013, 11:51:16 AM »
Looking back on it, I'm thinking that after taxing at SLC for thirty or forty minutes, the pilots just forgot how to fly and were going to drive all the way to California - right up until they saw the end of the runway and decided maybe they better do something else  =D



Not to pick nits but the way SLC is laid out I'm pretty sure you didn't taxi that long.  Probably just felt like it.
 Not that I wasn't ATC there for over 6 years or anything. ;)
Terminals sit between the parallel runways this drops taxi time.  SLC is always at the top for on time service in the nation.
DFW, IAH, DEN, ATL those kind of taxi times wouldn't surprise me at all.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

Tallpine

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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2013, 12:14:28 PM »
Not to pick nits but the way SLC is laid out I'm pretty sure you didn't taxi that long.  Probably just felt like it.
 Not that I wasn't ATC there for over 6 years or anything. ;)
Terminals sit between the parallel runways this drops taxi time.  SLC is always at the top for on time service in the nation.
DFW, IAH, DEN, ATL those kind of taxi times wouldn't surprise me at all.

I guess I know how it's laid out.  I have no clue why it takes so long.

My daughter said that folks on her plane we saying that they guessed the pilot was going to drive all the way to Billings  :lol:
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Ben

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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2013, 12:24:26 PM »
I had to explain this to a co worker when a DC9 used most of the 9,000 footer the other day.  But she's a little dumb anyways.


Man oh man, I hope by "coworker" you mean the janitor that was changing the trash can liners, and not the person sitting at the station next to yours!
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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2013, 12:26:19 PM »
Man oh man, I hope by "coworker" you mean the janitor that was changing the trash can liners, and not the person sitting at the station next to yours!

You wish. : p
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Hawkmoon - Never underestimate another person's capacity for stupidity. Any time you think someone can't possibly be that dumb ... they'll prove you wrong.

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Bad decisions make good stories.

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Jamisjockey

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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2013, 01:12:17 AM »
Man oh man, I hope by "coworker" you mean the janitor that was changing the trash can liners, and not the person sitting at the station next to yours!

Yeah no. 
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

geronimotwo

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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2013, 07:42:39 PM »
the op reminds me of the time when i was a kid and a guy and his girl landed a cessna 172 in our back yard.  we had a 750 ft strip and an aeronca champ in the backyard, so he mistook us for a small airfield about 5 miles up the road.  the first question he asked when he got out of his plane was "how long is that runway?".   we ended up with about 3/4ths of a 55 gallon drum of avgas, and he waited until evening to try and get out of there solo.   :lol:
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Tallpine

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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2013, 07:51:49 PM »
the op reminds me of the time when i was a kid and a guy and his girl landed a cessna 172 in our back yard.  we had a 750 ft strip and an aeronca champ in the backyard, so he mistook us for a small airfield about 5 miles up the road.  the first question he asked when he got out of his plane was "how long is that runway?".   we ended up with about 3/4ths of a 55 gallon drum of avgas, and he waited until evening to try and get out of there solo.   :lol:

Wow - I know some folks with a 182 and a 1200' grass strip, and they use just about the whole thing  :O

I did some odd jobs for the folks next door, and she comes in barely over the road and fence when landing.  She must have to watch for traffic along with everything else.

They also have a J-3 and of course it takes practically no room at all to takeoff/land  =)
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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2013, 11:46:29 AM »
When I lived in AK, we used to go see the STOL competitions.  Nothing like watching a Super Cub take off in 50'.

Tallpine

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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2013, 01:17:06 PM »
When I lived in AK, we used to go see the STOL competitions.  Nothing like watching a Super Cub take off in 50'.

Yeah, seen that at -30 of Fire Lake near Chugiak  =)
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

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Re: 747 Freighter lands at wrong airport with too-short runways
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2013, 04:32:43 PM »
When I lived in AK, we used to go see the STOL competitions.  Nothing like watching a Super Cub take off in 50'.

I like the videos of the Cubs and Huskys practically landing on water on tundra tires.
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