Are you homophobic or Islamophobic?

[Angel Eyes]

https://www.theblaze.com/news/muslim-soccer-player-rainbow-jersey


TL;DR: French soccer player, who is Muslim, refuses to wear rainbow jersey in support of LGBTXYZEIEIO, sits out the game instead.  The usual suspects want him punished.

The money quote:  "Homophobia is not an opinion but a crime."

Is Islamophobia also a crime?

[kgbsquirrel]

Florida Nightclub shooting already showed that the progs rank muzzies higher than homos.  I expect it to follow accordingly.

[Pb]

In the USA Muslims rank higher on the victimhood scale than homosexuals.  It may be different in France.

[zxcvbob]

Florida Nightclub shooting already showed that the progs rank muzzies higher than homos.  I expect it to follow accordingly.

That's only because they are afraid of the muslims

[kgbsquirrel]

A group identity that is solely recruitment based is always going to be at a disadvantage to a group identity that expressly encourages multiple breeding partners and fecundity.

Islam just brings more bodies to the political table than homosexuality.  If you're a politician operating on identity politics it only makes sense to choose muslim over gay.

[K Frame]

Yes.

[WLJ]

Remember folks, it's racist to judge other cultures

[zahc]

In the USA Muslims rank higher on the victimhood scale than homosexuals.  It may be different in France.

France has a more or less regular cadence of Islamic terrorist beheadings in the street. So yes, I expect it's different there.

If you count catholicism and protestantism separately, lslam is now the most prevalent religion in France. So at some point it will flip

[Pb]

France has a more or less regular cadence of Islamic terrorist beheadings in the street. So yes, I expect it's different there.

That is why it is odd... you would expect the French pols to love Muslims more than homosexuals... and yet here they are berating a muslim for not loving homosexuals.

[MillCreek]

A group identity that is solely recruitment based is always going to be at a disadvantage to a group identity that expressly encourages multiple breeding partners and fecundity.

Recruitment based?  So people are gay because they dropped in at the gay recruitment center and signed the contract?

[cordex]

Recruitment based?  So people are gay because they dropped in at the gay recruitment center and signed the contract?

Do you think sexual preference is 100% unchangeable and never impacted by social pressure or abuse?

[MillCreek]

Do you think sexual preference is 100% unchangeable and never impacted by social pressure or abuse?

Do you think people choose to be gay or straight?

[cordex]

I'm more than happy to answer your question, but I'm curious as to why you didn't even attempt to answer mine.

Do you think people choose to be gay or straight?

I think that people are born with an innate preference (predominantly heterosexual and bisexual, and a few strictly homosexual).  I think that sexual preference (as well as other sexual behavior within a given preference) absolutely can be influenced in at least some children by learned social norms, social pressure, as well as by being victims of sexual abuse or violence.  As far as individual choice, I don't rule it out as a possibility but I think it is vastly more common that it is a confluence of factors both inherent and societal that take place well before a person is likely to make any sort of conscious choice in the matter.

I believe there are some people for whom there is never any option, and that others can be swayed one way or another depending on what they experience as children.

What about you?  Are you a genetic absolutist?

[kgbsquirrel]

I'm more than happy to answer your question, but I'm curious as to why you didn't even attempt to answer mine.I think that people are born with an innate preference (predominantly heterosexual and bisexual, and a few strictly homosexual).  I think that sexual preference (as well as other sexual behavior within a given preference) absolutely can be influenced in at least some children by learned social norms, social pressure, as well as by being victims of sexual abuse or violence.  As far as individual choice, I don't rule it out as a possibility but I think it is vastly more common that it is a confluence of factors both inherent and societal that take place well before a person is likely to make any sort of conscious choice in the matter.

I believe there are some people for whom there is never any option, and that others can be swayed one way or another depending on what they experience as children.

What about you?  Are you a genetic absolutist?

Very well put and spot on.

[MillCreek]

What about you?  Are you a genetic absolutist?

The latest data of which I am aware of suggests that a genetic component probably accounts for a relatively small proportion of orientation.  I am interested to see the continuing work on prenatal factors in the womb.  But at the end of the day, the etiology of orientation is irrelevant to me: I appreciate all orientations as friends, colleagues and relatives and I don't share the personal, political, or religious concerns that some very fine people have.  We agree to disagree.

[WLJ]

I use to try to be more of live and let live on these matters.
Unfortunately the left seems determined to ram this stuff down our throats 24/7 now.
That's what grinds my gears.

[cordex]

The latest data of which I am aware of suggests that a genetic component probably accounts for a relatively small proportion of orientation.  I am interested to see the continuing work on prenatal factors in the womb.  But at the end of the day, the etiology of orientation is irrelevant to me: I appreciate all orientations as friends, colleagues and relatives and I don't share the personal, political, or religious concerns that some very fine people have.  We agree to disagree.

As a philosophical exercise, if you had the ability to choose a sexual orientation for someone you deeply love and care about - your children for instance - what would you choose for them, and why?

[Angel Eyes]

I appreciate all orientations as friends, colleagues and relatives

All orientations?  Does that include minor-attracted persons?


(and wow,  has this thread taken a turn ...)

[MillCreek]

As a philosophical exercise, if you had the ability to choose a sexual orientation for someone you deeply love and care about - your children for instance - what would you choose for them, and why?

Everyone on this board agrees that the very best person to be is a cis white male! 

[Ben]

The latest data of which I am aware of suggests that a genetic component probably accounts for a relatively small proportion of orientation.

It would have to be a small proportion. Genetics would mean it's a non-viable aberration detrimental to the continuation of a species. If it was purely genetic, evolution should have killed off most homosexuals by now so that it would be no more than a percent or so still randomly being born.

Yet now we have "50% of the population is LGBTQRXYZ"

[Pb]

Do you think people choose to be gay or straight?

1) I think some people are born with a strong predisposition towards homosexuality due to genetics or brain damage in the womb.

2) I think some people learn homosexuality due to sexual abuse...(sexual imprinting)

3) I think some people choose to engage in homosexuality like any other weird sexual fetish.  This can be learned through acquaintances, pornography, etc.

4) I think some people learn to engage in homosexuality because women are not available.  I think this why homosexuality is common in the Arab world.

I think the huge increase in homosexuality today is due to 2 & 3.  When society frowned on homosexuality, it was not common, being mainly people in group 1.  When society views it is wonderful, then we see an explosion of it.

[kgbsquirrel]

It would have to be a small proportion. Genetics would mean it's a non-viable aberration detrimental to the continuation of a species. If it was purely genetic, evolution should have killed off most homosexuals by now so that it would be no more than a percent or so still randomly being born.

Yet now we have "50% of the population is LGBTQRXYZ"

A species with a 96% successful genetic plan (2-4% become non-reproductive homosexuals, with 96-98% nominally reproductive-capable heterosexuals) will still successfully propagate itself, hence not "dying out."  There will always be a small % of genetic aberration in each generation of human while the species as a whole perpetuates.

Presently that natural aberration has been politically and culturally amplified and weaponized by other agendas.

[cordex]

Everyone on this board agrees that the very best person to be is a cis white male!

Okay, if you're not interested in discussing the topic you don't have to.

[MechAg94]

1) I think some people are born with a strong predisposition towards homosexuality due to genetics or brain damage in the womb.

2) I think some people learn homosexuality due to sexual abuse...(sexual imprinting)

3) I think some people choose to engage in homosexuality like any other weird sexual fetish.  This can be learned through acquaintances, pornography, etc.

4) I think some people learn to engage in homosexuality because women are not available.  I think this why homosexuality is common in the Arab world.

I think the huge increase in homosexuality today is due to 2 & 3.  When society frowned on homosexuality, it was not common, being mainly people in group 1.  When society views it is wonderful, then we see an explosion of it.

I am not sure if I would have worded it the same way, but that fits a lot of what I have thought about.  The reasons vary which is why "choice" versus "genetic" is hard to judge as people end up as they are for different reasons.  Those reasons play a large part in if that person's orientation can change or if they even want to change.

[Ben]

A species with a 96% successful genetic plan (2-4% become non-reproductive homosexuals, with 96-98% nominally reproductive-capable heterosexuals) will still successfully propagate itself, hence not "dying out."  There will always be a small % of genetic aberration in each generation of human while the species as a whole perpetuates.

Presently that natural aberration has been politically and culturally amplified and weaponized by other agendas.

For clarity. I wasn't talking about a species as a whole, I was talking about a genetically homosexual component. If it is a true genetic homosexual (whatever the species) it should become a smaller and smaller percentage of the species population over tens of thousands of years since it's not reproducing itself. But I'm not a geneticist. It just seems the intuitive answer to me.