Train derailment onto I-5 near Tacoma results in fatalities

[MillCreek]

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/18/571654675/amtrak-train-derails-on-overpass-in-washington-causing-multiple-fatalities?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=news

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/article190312794.html

Washington state just cut the ribbon on a new stretch of train tracks designed to alleviate rail congestion in the Tacoma area.  On the very first trip from Tacoma to Portland, the train derailed on a bridge over I-5 near JBLM with at least two cars falling onto the freeway and has completely blocked southbound I-5.  Multiple fatalities (number unknown) reported on the train so far.

[BobR]

I wonder how fast it was going? Isn't it supposed to be a "high speed"* rail line?


Bob

*knowing US high speed is nothing like high speed in other countries.

[Ben]

First off, condolences to the families of the dead.

If high speed rail, I'll be interested to see what the investigation finds and if there were, it being new, any construction defects. I'll assume WA built for similar reasons to why CA is building theirs. I just saw CA is already coming in at way over the original estimates for being way over budget. I can't help but think that might end up causing some construction shortcuts that lead to something similar on that train's first runs.

[Brad Johnson]

On-scene private social media feeds seem to indicate the train struck a vehicle. One report says a truck, but not what kind.

Brad

[Fly320s]

The photos on NPR show that the bridge is old construction.  I wonder how old the tracks are?

If this was the inaugural run, did they not do any proving runs?

[RocketMan]

Can you imagine the mess if that had been a freight train with a bunch of tank cars carrying hazardous chemicals and fuels?
Not to discount the fatalities, but the folks in that area may have dodged a large caliber bullet with that one.  That corridor is pretty heavily populated now, unlike thirty years ago.

[HankB]

. . . On the very first trip from Tacoma to Portland, the train derailed . . .

Disaster on the very first trip? 

Don't tell me the train was built in a Harland and Wolff facility . . .

[Northwoods]

On-scene private social media feeds seem to indicate the train struck a vehicle. One report says a truck, but not what kind.

Brad

There were definitely vehicles hit by the train after it jumped the tracks, including IIRC at least 1 semi-truck.  Heard some rumors the train an "obstruction" on the tracks, but nothing specifying what that obstruction was.

[Firethorn]

Disaster on the very first trip? 

Don't tell me the train was built in a Harland and Wolff facility . . .

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/12/hiding-something-antifa-website-deletes-article-sabotaging-train-tracks-concrete-washington-state-derailment/

There's rumors that Antifa might have done it, placing an obstruction.  Why, I don't know.  Newsweek is saying its false.

[Regolith]

It's starting to sound to me like the conductor took a curve a bit too fast. From what the news has been saying, the track goes from an ~80 mph straightway into a 30mph turn just before the bridge, and there's no active Positive Train Control system on that track.

[Hawkmoon]

Unlikely an object on the track. The locomotive and the first two or three cars stayed on the track -- it was the tail end of the train that got derailed.

[Northwoods]

That was the back engine and car or two still more or less on the track.  Front engine was off the track if not on the road.

[MillCreek]

In the local media, some of the rail transportation experts are saying that preliminary indications are the train took the curve too fast.  That curve is marked at 30 MPH, and the train was going almost 80 MPH before arriving at that curve.

[Fly320s]

In the local media, some of the rail transportation experts are saying that preliminary indications are the train took the curve too fast.  That curve is marked at 30 MPH, and the train was going almost 80 MPH before arriving at that curve.

NTSB spokesman said the same thing.

[RoadKingLarry]

Is this the NRA's fault or does Trump get the blame?

[Fly320s]

Is this the NRA's fault or does Trump get the blame?

Why not both?

[K Frame]

It may not be NRA's fault, but it's a perfect example of why we need assault weapon control.

[K Frame]

"There's rumors that Antifa might have done it, placing an obstruction.  Why, I don't know."

Why?

Because fighting fascism, of course!

[Hawkmoon]

It's starting to sound to me like the conductor took a curve a bit too fast. From what the news has been saying, the track goes from an ~80 mph straightway into a 30mph turn just before the bridge, and there's no active Positive Train Control system on that track.

It turns out there IS Positive Train Control on that route -- it was installed as part of the upgrades to the route. But ... it wasn't in use, they were still "testing" it. Given all the recent train crashes and the federal mandate for PTC, wouldn't you think they would have done the testing before they opened the route and put it into regular service? I think a couple of people need to lose their jobs over this.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/curve-where-amtrak-train-derailed-in-washington-has-speed-limit-of-30-mph/

[TommyGunn]

It turns out there IS Positive Train Control on that route -- it was installed as part of the upgrades to the route. But ... it wasn't in use, they were still "testing" it. Given all the recent train crashes and the federal mandate for PTC, wouldn't you think they would have done the testing before they opened the route and put it into regular service? I think a couple of people need to lose their jobs over this.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/curve-where-amtrak-train-derailed-in-washington-has-speed-limit-of-30-mph/

You never heard of beta testers?

[Firethorn]

It turns out there IS Positive Train Control on that route -- it was installed as part of the upgrades to the route. But ... it wasn't in use, they were still "testing" it. Given all the recent train crashes and the federal mandate for PTC, wouldn't you think they would have done the testing before they opened the route and put it into regular service? I think a couple of people need to lose their jobs over this.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/curve-where-amtrak-train-derailed-in-washington-has-speed-limit-of-30-mph/

Indeed.  This is a bit like releasing a car today with the airbags disconnected. 

And really, you have like 2 controls on a train.  How hard is it to remember to slow down for these curves?

[MillCreek]

The latest local scuttlebutt is that the NTSB is investigating if the train engineers were 'distracted', which is apparently a code word for someone texting or looking at a smartphone while operating the vehicle.

[Fly320s]

The latest local scuttlebutt is that the NTSB is investigating if the train engineers were 'distracted', which is apparently a code word for someone texting or looking at a smartphone while operating the vehicle.

Probably were.  That has to be a boring job.

[MechAg94]

Okay, given GPS technology and some version of Google Maps for train tracks, why doesn't excessive in the wrong area not only alert the engineer, but the central monitoring people who might be in contact with the train engineer?  Hell, make the engineers put an app on their phones that will interrupt anything they are doing.

[Regolith]

Probably were.  That has to be a boring job.

Talking from experience?    


ETA: I also caught the first part of the press conference with Amtrac's president. He said that they were "on track" to get the PTC system deployed in that area before the federal deadline.

Probably wasn't the best turn of phrase he could have used...