Author Topic: i must be having a nightmare  (Read 5874 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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i must be having a nightmare
« on: March 18, 2010, 01:12:38 PM »
By THE WASHINGTON TIMES

President Obama's judicial nominees are getting more dangerous with each White House announcement.

If you don't believe us, consider one judge's opinion that the "sexual sadism" of a multiple rapist-murderer was "clearly a mitigating factor" that argued against executing the murderer and perhaps even against convicting him in the first place. Or that a type of Megan's Law sex-offender registry should be overturned because it "stigmatizes nondangerous registrants." Even a child-porn convict should serve a sentence less than half as long as official guidelines suggest if his mental and emotional condition is fragile.

U.S. District Judge Robert N. Chatigny of Connecticut, appointed by President Clinton, thinks all of this crazy nonsense and has so ruled or argued. Yet on Feb. 24, Mr. Obama nominated Judge Chatigny for promotion to a seat on the U.S. 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals, and the Senate Judiciary Committee rushed to schedule his nomination hearing for March 10 before Republican objections delayed it.

Let's take these subjects in reverse order. First, as to the Senate Democrats' original plans to rush into a hearing just two weeks after the nomination was made: This would be unwise for any nominee, and it's especially outrageous for one so controversial. Judiciary Committee Republicans say the average wait for a hearing for President George W. Bush's appeals court nominees was 135 days - nearly 10 times as long.

Judge Chatigny's strange take on sex offenders has shadowed his time on the bench. In the 2007 child-porn case, the judge gave the lenient sentence even though prosecutors found "multiple images and videos" on the defendant's computer. In the case involving Connecticut's version of Megan's Law, Judge Chatigny relied not on the actual words of the "sex-offender registry" warning, but on the "implied allegation" that everybody listed was dangerous in order to rule that the law somehow violated the offender's constitutional rights. So wrongheaded was Judge Chatigny's ruling that the U.S. Supreme Court eventually reversed it, not by a split vote, but unanimously.

The worst case, though, was that of serial murderer Michael Ross, who abducted, sexually tortured and then killed women or girls ages 25, 23, 19, 16, 17 (two that age) and 14 (two victims). Shortly before Ross was to be executed with his own acquiescence in the punishment, Judge Chatigny held a phone conference, during which he berated Ross' attorney for failing to appeal the death penalty. The judge even threatened, "I'll have your law license" if the lawyer failed in this supposed duty.

The judge said he had been convinced that "sexual sadism" was a mental disorder that made Ross as much victim as criminal. Said the judge about Ross: "He's at Cornell, he had this classmate, this petite Asian girl who is sweet, and he likes her, and he winds up killing her because he has this affliction, this terrible disease ... this awful, uncontrollable impulse to sexually brutalize this person he liked and then kill her. ... Michael Ross may be the least culpable, the least, of the people on death row."

The Supreme Court eventually overruled Judge Chatigny on the Ross case, too, and Ross finally was put to death. As for the judge's nomination for a federal appeals court, Ross' eight victims have no comment.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Fjolnirsson

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2010, 02:08:48 PM »
Reminds me of an article I read yesterday. The British Government has decided burglars should only be given jail time if they hurt someone or damage property. We're headed that way, faster than I thought, it would appear.

You and I, we're having the same nightmare.
Hi.

Seenterman

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2010, 04:11:13 PM »
WTF??

Sometimes I don't think people can get any stupider until I read something like this.

Quote
If you don't believe us, consider one judge's opinion that the "sexual sadism" of a multiple rapist-murderer was "clearly a mitigating factor" that argued against executing the murderer and perhaps even against convicting him in the first place.

The judge said he had been convinced that "sexual sadism" was a mental disorder that made Ross as much victim as criminal.

 Yea why don't you legalize rape and murder! Can you be dismissed from a Judgeship for mental instability? If so this this guy needs to have his head examined before he gets appointed to anything. Ross is as much of victim as eight girls he tortured, and murdered??? I don't think the board rules allow me to really express how I feel about this view point the Judge holds.

Not to come across as a psycho, the Judge has ONE point, but fails at that as well.  A tiny minority of people on the Megan's law registry don't deserve to be there, but it does not need to be abolished!

Teens "sexting" one another getting hit with child pornography charges even though the "children" they are photographing are themselves do not deserve to be labeled a sex offender.

Males urinating in parks have been hit with indecent exposure charges and wound up on the sex offender registry.

http://reason.com/blog/2009/10/08/warning-to-teens-sexting-will

http://www.theagitator.com/2010/01/29/ruining-kids-in-order-to-save-them-ctd/

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-536-Civil-Liberties-Examiner~y2009m2d17-Six-Massachusetts-kids-may-face-child-porn-charges-for-sexting

This crap is stupid, but does not warrant disbanding the sex offender registry over.

roo_ster

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2010, 04:18:44 PM »
Quote
Not to come across as a psycho, the Judge has ONE point, but fails at that as well.  A tiny minority of people on the Megan's law registry don't deserve to be there, but it does not need to be abolished!

I'd happily accept abolishing the SO registries if we could guarantee that murderers & such would get on a fast-track to the Big Shot and be put out of our misery in 5 years or less.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2010, 04:21:08 PM »
I'd happily accept abolishing the SO registries if we could guarantee that murderers & such would get on a fast-track to the Big Shot and be put out of our misery in 5 years or less.

Ditto.

SO registries do very little.  Besides, there's always the first-time offender who has yet to be on the registry.

Increase concealed carry, increase legal self defense protections, eliminate the SO registries and streamline death row.

Crime will drop.
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MechAg94

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2010, 04:50:28 PM »
Reminds me of an article I read yesterday. The British Government has decided burglars should only be given jail time if they hurt someone or damage property. We're headed that way, faster than I thought, it would appear.

You and I, we're having the same nightmare.
I don't know if I would say Texas is going that way, but it certainly does underscore of the dangers of electing people like Obama to office. 
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MicroBalrog

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2010, 05:13:57 PM »
Quote
Or that a type of Megan's Law sex-offender registry should be overturned because it "stigmatizes nondangerous registrants.

Gee, you don't think?
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230RN

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2010, 08:41:42 AM »
Makes me wonder what's on the judge's computer.
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HankB

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2010, 10:35:17 AM »
Quote
. . . the "sexual sadism" of a multiple rapist-murderer was "clearly a mitigating factor" that argued against executing the murderer and perhaps even against convicting him in the first place.
So if you're bad enough, you should get a pass?  ???

This judge not only doesn't belong on the bench, he belongs in a padded room.
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longeyes

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2010, 02:30:10 PM »
For reasons that need exploring there are a lot of very sick people in high places in this country.
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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2010, 02:39:35 PM »
Reminds me of an article I read yesterday. The British Government has decided burglars should only be given jail time if they hurt someone or damage property. We're headed that way, faster than I thought, it would appear.

You and I, we're having the same nightmare.
I'm living in a similar nightmare already. Sentencing over here is a joke. Just to mention one example, at the moment the police is looking for this scumbag after a guy had named him as the person who had kidnapped him. The scumbag in question is 23 years old, and has a previous conviction for a double homicide that he commited when he was 17. He walked out of the "treatment" several times, and was let out last year after a whooping 5 years of being occasionally locked up for letting two young girls freeze to death on a mountaintop. Prepare to get outraged at a regular basis in the future.
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De Selby

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2010, 09:18:03 PM »
Yeah, I'd like to see the transcripts of where all of this was said before judging.  There were probably technical points of law behind most of it.  The article wasn't exactly drafted in the most objective style. 

Judges get lots of crap for their decisions (from right and left), when in most cases they really are just trying to follow the law.  It's not an easy job.

In terms of sentencing trends in the United States, if you want to find a country that is harder on criminals, you need to look to places like North Korea or Saudi Arabia.  Everyone else is trailing way behind.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2010, 09:18:59 PM »
Yeah, I suspect the whole "sexual sadism" bit was in the contest of a discussion of the guy's sanity or something.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

RaspberrySurprise

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2010, 08:57:58 PM »
Quote
If you don't believe us, consider one judge's opinion that the "sexual sadism" of a multiple rapist-murderer was "clearly a mitigating factor" that argued against executing the murderer and perhaps even against convicting him in the first place.

The judge said he had been convinced that "sexual sadism" was a mental disorder that made Ross as much victim as criminal.

You may not blame a rabid dog for biting you but you still take it out back. Yes I know people are not dogs but the concept still does have validity.
Look, tiny text!

MicroBalrog

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2010, 09:06:00 PM »
There exist facilities for the criminally insane. It's in these facilities these people belong.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

SteveS

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2010, 09:46:21 PM »
The judge said he had been convinced that "sexual sadism" was a mental disorder that made Ross as much victim as criminal.

I have no doubt that sexual sadism is a mental disorder, but that doesn't mean that this person didn't know right from wrong.  There are many mentally ill criminals that are still culpable.  While their disorder does likely contribute to their behavior, many still know what they are doing is wrong and take no steps to control their behavior.  In those cases, their mental illness is an explanation, not a justification.  Ross may be a victim, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is a dangerous individual and this judge has a duty to society to protect people from him.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2010, 09:56:15 PM »
Again, the question is, what context was it said in. It's possible the guy's behavior was a symptom of some horrible mental illness. I don't see a problem with replacing prison with compulsory treatment. Some of those guys can be treated.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Boomhauer

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2010, 10:13:47 PM »
Quote
It's possible the guy's behavior was a symptom of some horrible mental illness

I really don't give two shits if Ross had a possible mental illness. The deed was done by his physical hands, and I'm glad they gave that scumbag the needle, which is a kindness in my book.


We're hosting judicial circuses these days instead of getting the job done. That crap needs to stop now.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 10:17:37 PM by Avenger29 »
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Strings

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2010, 10:41:26 PM »
>Again, the question is, what context was it said in. It's possible the guy's behavior was a symptom of some horrible mental illness. I don't see a problem with replacing prison with compulsory treatment. Some of those guys can be treated.<

I hate to say this, but I will.

Great, so he gets treated, and is "all better". Then he's turned loose in society, and ten years down the road goes off his meds.

Sorry. You've shown yourself to be a clear and present danger to society, you get put down. No torture or messing around, but as quickly and humanely as possible.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2010, 10:44:55 PM »
Maybe. I don't know what the rules should be. What I'm saying is, the judge's opinion is probably not as outlandish as the article tries to make it out to be.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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roo_ster

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2010, 11:21:52 PM »
There exist facilities for the criminally insane. It's in these facilities these people belong.

I have come to the point where I really don;t care much what is going on in people's heads.  I do;t care if folk hate me due to my race/religion/whatever as long as they act  civil.  Same thing WRT crime.  I don;t care if someone has homicidal fantasies as long as they stay inside their mind.  This dude was nuts or off his meds, he did the crime.  Let him reap the just consequences and be put out of our misery.

Sorry. You've shown yourself to be a clear and present danger to society, you get put down. No torture or messing around, but as quickly and humanely as possible.

This.
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roo_ster

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KD5NRH

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2010, 11:51:43 PM »
Even a child-porn convict should serve a sentence less than half as long as official guidelines suggest if his mental and emotional condition is fragile.

If the official guidelines suggest that he be shot in the head, hanged, drawn and quartered, dipped in liquid nitrogen, shattered, burned to ashes, and the ashes used to keep the smell down in an outhouse, then yes, I'll settle for half.  I'll even let them pick which half.


Strings

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2010, 04:17:24 AM »
again: removed from society, quickly and humanely.

Get convicted, have one year to mount an appeal. No appeal (or whatever you've mounted has been defeated), you walk out into a yard and receive a bullet to the head. No fuss, quick and painless (so no "cruel and unusual punishment")

It's the same thing we do for rabid dogs...
No Child Should Live In Fear

What was that about a pearl handled revolver and someone from New Orleans again?

Screw it: just autoclave the planet (thanks Birdman)

MicroBalrog

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2010, 05:50:14 AM »
Quote
Even a child-porn convict should serve a sentence less than half as long as official guidelines suggest if his mental and emotional condition is fragile.

Given we have fifteen-year-olds convicted of child porn charges for posting pictures of themselves?

Hell yes.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

KD5NRH

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Re: i must be having a nightmare
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2010, 09:10:18 AM »
It's the same thing we do for rabid dogs...

You have an appeal process for rabid dogs?