Author Topic: Who should be the next Pope?  (Read 3934 times)

armedcitizen

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Who should be the next Pope?
« on: April 06, 2005, 08:35:28 AM »
I heard that the only qualifications for Pope are to be male and Roman Catholic.  You don't need to be a Cardinal, Bishop or even a priest.

With that in mind, I nominate Ted Kennedy--we know he likes wine, the robes would fit him much more comfortably than a suit and tie, and since he'd never drive himself anywhere there wouldn't be a chance of him driving off a bridge somewhere and killing another staff member.

What do you think?  If not Teddy, who would be your nominee and why?

Phantom Warrior

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2005, 08:48:11 AM »
I just a Lutheran, but I always thought the pope was supposed to be sort of an authority on religious, spiritiual, and moral matters.  That would seem to disqualify Ted Kennedy.  

(I know it's just a joke, but after I forced the bile back down I had to say something.)

Honestly, I'm not sure.  I know there is pressure to elect a pope who will be more liberal on many issues.  I'm not going to get into doctrinal issues like priests marrying.  But I would like to see a pope with the same kind of spine as John Paul II when it comes to issues like abortion, same-sex marriage, and others.

Preacherman

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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2005, 09:23:21 AM »
Now why would you wish Ted Kennedy on poor innocent Catholics?
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grampster

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2005, 09:38:24 AM »
The Pope is the authoritive voice of the Roman Church when it comes to faith and morals.  Therefore whoever he is, he should be a spiritual man who understands and is commited to the fact that the faithful need to accomodate themselves to the Word of God, not try and alter it to suit their neo modernist, fadish desires or selfish beliefs.  

The Pope should be steadfast with respect to the doctrinal foundations of the church as spelled out biblicaly. Church customs if not foundational, of course can be revised, and have been: The Mass in the vernacular is one example.  If John Paul is to be called The Great, (and I believe he should, when looking at the body of his work) it is simply because he fit the mold that he was called to fill, to stand firm in the truth, not to accomodate himself to situational ethics and the denial of the immutability of the truth.  Truth is not some changing idiom.  It simply is what it is.  

If a thing is changeable, then, in fact, it never was a true thing to start with.  Black is always black.  It can never be white.  My 64 'Cuda was the fastest that I knew of, but one day I got beat, so it was not true that it was the fastest.  So, to alter the Word to accomodate some post modern thought is to deny that it was ever true in the first place.   That means that the faith that was established was futile and of no lasting value.  References in this vein were alluded to in the New Testament, I believe by Paul.  (Biblical scholars feel free to jump in, anytime.)
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Pebcac

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2005, 10:19:14 AM »
Quote
I heard that the only qualifications for Pope are to be male and Roman Catholic.  You don't need to be a Cardinal, Bishop or even a priest.
This is incorrect.  The Pope is the Bishop of Rome and is elected from within the College of Cardinals, and so must be an ordained member of the Catholic clergy.  Incidentally, there are three "levels" of Holy Orders, with the diaconate (deacons--who may be married) at the first, presbyterate (regular priests) at the second, and the episcopate (bishops) at the highest.  As far as ordination is concerned, the Pope is a bishop.
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Preacherman

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2005, 02:41:08 PM »
Pebcac, sorry, but you're wrong about that.  The only requirements for election to the Papacy are, indeed, that the candidate be male and baptized.  Obviously, he would be ordained immediately upon election, so ordination is not a pre-requisite.  It would be interesting if a married man were elected, as he would obviously have a problem with the requirement for celibacy:  but since there are married priests in the Catholic Church (e.g. the Eastern rites, as well as previously-married Protestant clergy who have converted), I'm sure there would be a way around the problem.

Nevertheless, for many centuries, Popes have come from the ranks of cardinals, who are already celibate and ordained.  These men are usually well-known to one another, and their leadership attributes, spiritual qualities, etc. can therefore be assessed without much fear of misjudgement.  I don't think we're likely to see a Pope elected from outside the College of Cardinals.
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horge

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2005, 03:16:20 PM »
Pebcac,

The ordinal requirement is directly linkable to the premise that the conclave is really electing the bishop of Rome,
who by default and association with the position, assumes leadership as the Pope.
The problem with the 'Roman premise' is that a local office is naturally filled on the basis of local votes.
If only Romans would be in conclave for the selection, then the Roman premise would hold water.
 
The larger and truer perception of the process is not a 'Roman succession', but a 'Petrine succession'.
It is in the latter sense that the process assumes a less rigid aspect, and is open to Divine
intervention and inspiration, wherefrom a non-Cardinal might be chosen

There is little argument that Peter was the first, nor that he tended a community in Rome.
Peter's successor Clement was deliberately NOT selected by the Apostle, but elected in roughly the same
way that our last Pope was, though with much fewer limitations and rules, relying much more
on inspiration from God, through reflection and prayer on the part of the electors.

Unfortunately, any politician can claim Divine inspiration to promote selfish ends,
and many Popes were periodically challenged from without by political superpowers,
pushing their own 'divinely-elected pontiffs' : the rival antipopes

The emergence in 767 A.D. of yet another usurper, the antipope Constantine
--precisely the 'male and Roman Catholic'* minimum, who was hastily ordained for the purpose--  
is what finally led to the canon council of 769 A.D. that thenceforth REQUIRED
that a pope be selected only from among the college of cardinals.
In the end, that requirement is a human artefact of politics, rather than one born of the Divine.

Since it is today unlikely that a rival conclave can be assembled, or that the canon conclave itself
be corrupted to reconvene and elect a usurper, that cardinal restriction is quite obsolete,
although if we really go way back to the Twelve, the ordinal restriction certainly stands.


Father Preacherman (Hi, father! Hope you're feeling better.) is quite right.
I believe that if it ever, on some occasion, becomes clear to a conclave, through prayer and meditation,
that the will of God is at odds with any mortal constructs such as electoral rules and traditions,
the Cardinals will have the faith and sense to choose God,

....and elect a true man of God.



We mourn, we pray, and we wait for God's will to be shown.



horge







PS: *minimum being 'male and Christian', actually. Protestantism had yet to fracture Christianity at the time Smiley

PPS: A virtual layman actually WAS chosen as Pope back in 1294 (Clementine V), but he was
soon overwhelmed by the political machinations brought to bear on him, and abdicated/resigned
but five months later.
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jefnvk

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2005, 03:43:54 PM »
Heck, elect me, if all that is required is that I be baptised and male (yes, and I think so Wink )
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The Rabbi

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2005, 04:27:27 PM »
Wouldnt the Pope have to be celibate?  That would knock out Ted Kennedy for sure.

My money is on Cardinal Lustiger, the archbishop of Paris.  As mentioned before, I think a Jewish Pope is a neat idea.  It would in any case continue John Paul's quest for cooperation among the different religions.
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horge

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2005, 04:44:39 PM »
Rabbi, that might spark fears of the third Petrine prophecy Smiley
Cardinal Lustiger found great favor with the last pope.
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Azrael256

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2005, 05:42:43 PM »
Just a couple of thoughts of mine on the subject.

Everybody said that the Cardinals will pray and reflect and such to pick the best Pope.  Do you suppose it's a really intensive "this is real important, so I'd better ask the big guy a whole bunch," kind of thing, or is it more of a "this is so big, the big guy will make it abundantly clear," sort of thing?

Also, what do you guys think about the celibacy thing?  I think it's a bit outdated, but I can understand the desire to maintain a tradition.

Warren

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2005, 08:44:35 PM »
How about someone who would repudiate Vatican 2 and bring back the Latin Mass?

Bring back the old school church. Not this pansy-ass thing that exists now.

Guest

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2005, 09:34:50 PM »
Quote
Wouldnt the Pope have to be celibate?
You know, i don't know if he actually does have to be celibate. Maybe during his tenure he would have to be, but prior activity is irrelevant (widowers become Priests fairly often). And the celibacy rule is administrative/traditional in nature (rather than doctrinal) and exceptions can easily be made.

Pebcac

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2005, 06:31:55 AM »
Preacherman and horge:  I stand corrected, good sirs.  I was under the impression that there was a requirement that the pope be elected only from within the College's membership.  Thank you for enlightening me!  You learn something new every day.  Wink
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Werewolf

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2005, 07:42:19 AM »
Quote
Rabbi, that might spark fears of the third Petrine prophecy.
What is the prophecy?
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horge

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2005, 02:08:18 PM »
Werewolf Smiley

I should provide warning that the 'Petrine' prophecies originate not from the Apostle, nor even deal with him.

They are heretic/occult and concern not 'THE' Peter, but 'A' Peter.
To be specific, supposedly, the last pope to serve before the Antichrist befouls this earth.
Again, supposedly, the last pope will be a Jew, and will take the name Peter II.

Treat such as idle and misleading -if ancient-  rumour,
along with all that Merovingian/Magdalenan BS that finds so much currency these days,
and the humor that Ted Kennedy is even close to thirteenth-rate, reject papal material.
Indeed, I was merely trying to inject more of the same humor as started the thread.
Smiley


-----------------

Pebcac Smiley

I pray you will help me out when it is inevitably my turn to have questions!


-----------------


Who do I/ think should/will be Pope?
Not a clue.

I suspect that he won't be who I might want, in the same way John Paul II wasn't who many wanted;
in the same way that much of what the Catholic Christian faith demands ISN'T what we want,
But then God likes to show us that what we want and what is good are often two different things.

As God wills!
Smiley




horge
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Andrew Wyatt

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2005, 07:33:54 PM »
Preacherman should be the pope.

possenti

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2005, 03:05:51 AM »
Quote
How about someone who would repudiate Vatican 2 and bring back the Latin Mass?
GREAT idea.  I don't hear that much these days.

I nominate Mel Gibson.

Antibubba

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2005, 06:25:39 AM »
JP 2 broke the mold-it'll be pretty hard for the cardinals to bring back the distant, litter-borne Popes of old.  I'm guessing Latin American or African.
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Guest

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2005, 04:20:48 PM »
Don Novello?

DavidScott

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2005, 06:58:56 AM »
I nominate Michael Jackson.

K Frame

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2005, 07:31:38 PM »
A catholic.

Being Evangelical United Brethren, that's about as far as I go in really worrying about the Pope.
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garyk/nm

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Who should be the next Pope?
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2005, 02:59:04 AM »
Bob, the Quiznos spokesbaby. He seems wise.
The College of Cardinals always seem to choose someone of great age; is this a sort of built-in term limits?