Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews

[dogmush]

I have seen no credible report that they ran aground.  The reports from sources I trust all say they were intercepted at sea. The video of them on board the boats would support that as well.

[Ben]

So Ash Carter says not a mechanical issue, but navigational error.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/14/carter-says-navigation-error-not-mechanical-problem-put-us-boats-in-iranian-waters.html?intcmp=hpbt2

[French G.]

I'll go for the Matt Bracken supposition that the boats were in international waters and the Iranians went and got them anyway just to be a thumb in the eye. The timing with SOTU coming is just too damn good.


 I am pretty embarrassed to be in the Navy today. The conduct of the crew was awful. White sock jokes aside, you know you are being filmed. You know the world will see this. So act appropriately, keep your uniform all the way on, don't chow down like you are at a picnic on an MWR tour while your female shipmate sits in the back in a hijab, don't give videoed statements that give aid and comfort to the enemy, etc. WTF?

[French G.]

And also tired of the internet specwar who are mad at the crew for surrendering, not fighting back, going down with the ship etc. I have seen the Iranian Navy very up close. They do provocative crap because they want to get shot and start an international incident. One of our seahawks practically landed on the back of an iranian frigate because the pilot was trying to harass the ship away from home plate. Pilot got in trouble with our CO for being provocative. Watched missile boats putter along right between a CVN and a CG. They do things daily to get a rise out of us. We do not shoot back.

[RoadKingLarry]

I'll go for the Matt Bracken supposition that the boats were in international waters and the Iranians went and got them anyway just to be a thumb in the eye. The timing with SOTU coming is just too damn good.


 I am pretty embarrassed to be in the Navy today. The conduct of the crew was awful. White sock jokes aside, you know you are being filmed. You know the world will see this. So act appropriately, keep your uniform all the way on, don't chow down like you are at a picnic on an MWR tour while your female shipmate sits in the back in a hijab, don't give videoed statements that give aid and comfort to the enemy, etc. WTF?

five will get you ten that they face harsher reprimands than Bergdhal

[BobR]

So Ash Carter says not a mechanical issue, but navigational error.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/14/carter-says-navigation-error-not-mechanical-problem-put-us-boats-in-iranian-waters.html?intcmp=hpbt2

I don't know, they were going from one country to another that both lie on the western side of the gulf. These are fairly shallow water boats, you put the shore on your starboard side about 1-2 miles away and stay there until you get to where you are going. The more stories I hear about this the more stink it produces. My 2 cents.

bob

[Boomhauer]

The timing with SOTU coming is just too damn good.

This. Especially when they release them the morning after the SOTU. If it wasn't about that they would have kept them longer...not like this administration is going to keep it's pimp hand strong should something happen like that...and it would be damn fitting for the Iranians to drag out a lengthy incident considering Obama is Jimmy Carter X.

[dogmush]

I don't know, they were going from one country to another that both lie on the western side of the gulf. These are fairly shallow water boats, you put the shore on your starboard side about 1-2 miles away and stay there until you get to where you are going.

bob

That's not an option.

[BobR]

^^^^^

I am curious why it is not an option. Place land off the starboard side on transit, watch the charts and depth gauge for shoal water. Farsi Island is in the middle of the gulf, anywhere from 50 or so miles to 75 miles from the western side of the gulf. I am not sure how coastal boats doing a straight forward re-position got out that far, unless Iran was flexing it muscles and enforcing waters as theirs that may be disputed.

bob

[RoadKingLarry]

http://www.nauticalchartsonline.com/chart/zoom?chart=62032
Online chart is zoomable and scrollable.

Winds, tides, currents, obstructions, restricted areas all play a major roll in marine navigation.
Looks like that piece of water would be a big ole bowl of suck to transit through.

[Hawkmoon]

Looks like that piece of water would be a big ole bowl of suck to transit through.

In a submarine. It shouldn't be all that difficult in a glorified bass boat.

[Boomhauer]

In a submarine. It shouldn't be all that difficult in a glorified bass boat.

 
It would be a lot easier if you didn't have Iran looking to grab any unattended smaller craft to liven up the day...no amount of maritime skills in the world is gonna help you when that happens.

[dogmush]

BobR, course tracks for any military vessel in the Gulf have to be approved by Fifth Fleet. There are several factors that go into course planning in that body of water, not all of which are public. But what you described is not an option for those guys.

Of the public reasons, that would take them through Saudi waters, and the Saudi ' s don't like our vessels in there waters, and in general it's supremely bad OPSEC to transit within sight of land.

ETA: Anecdotally, Fifth Fleet micromanages navigation so bad, I have had them tell me I need to move a course leg as little as 2 miles. They don't always tell me why, either.

[BobR]

^^^

Thanks. I wondered if the Saudi's were like that. When we flew out of there in 89 they were very particular about where we entered and exited their airspace, even if we were scooting for cover behind the Hawk batteries in Saudi because Iran launched some fighters. So, I guess if both counties claimed a 25 mile limit (which some do) it would not be a stretch to stay out of claimed Saudi  waters and slide into claimed Iranian waters.

thanks again

unrelated question; Are you on a LCV or LCU? And if I recall you are the skipper (Craft Master?).

bob

[KD5NRH]

unless Iran was flexing it muscles and enforcing waters as theirs that may be disputed.

IMO, way back when all these rules were being established, there should have been one more; if you get dickish about your maritime boundaries, then they shall be adjusted to an easier one to keep track of; the mainland high tide mark.

[Hutch]

Major drift alert...

The sad and sorry fact is, we are not able to know what the facts are, based on the utterances of our .mil or .gov officials.  We (rightfully, it seems) discard what they say occurred, and try to develop our own Intel.  Same thing with the Benghazi attack.

This is sad and dangerous.  One day, the public, or a subset, is going to have to make literal "life or death" decisions, based on what they've been told.  The first thing they will have to do is assay it for bullpoop content.

[KD5NRH]

The sad and sorry fact is, we are not able to know what the facts are, based on the utterances of our .mil or .gov officials.  We (rightfully, it seems) discard what they say occurred, and try to develop our own Intel.  Same thing with the Benghazi attack.

Yeah, it was probably a couple of destroyers captured in Lithuanian waters.

[BobR]

It is sad, so far we have heard

1. Mechanical failure

2. Communication failure

and

3. Navigation error.

This is another instance where even if the truth comes out no one will believe it because of all of the past falsehoods given.

bob

[KD5NRH]

It is sad, so far we have heard

1. Mechanical failure
2. Communication failure
3. Navigation error.

I heard the C5 pilot that was carrying the boats stopped for a beer at NAS Dallas and they were captured by MS13.

[Jocassee]

Major drift alert...

The sad and sorry fact is, we are not able to know what the facts are, based on the utterances of our .mil or .gov officials.  We (rightfully, it seems) discard what they say occurred, and try to develop our own Intel.  Same thing with the Benghazi attack.

This is sad and dangerous.  One day, the public, or a subset, is going to have to make literal "life or death" decisions, based on what they've been told.  The first thing they will have to do is assay it for bullpoop content.

Spot on my friend. Spot. On.

[dogmush]

unrelated question; Are you on a LCV or LCU? And if I recall you are the skipper (Craft Master?).

LCU, and in school to get that cert right now.  Will be the Vessel Master the next time I pass Farsi Island.  (I will be about 16 miles out.  Because I can navigate.)

[Ben]

LCU, and in school to get that cert right now.  Will be the Vessel Master the next time I pass Farsi Island.  (I will be about 16 miles out.  Because I can navigate.)

What's the difference? Are LCVs just LC dedicated to vehicles?

[dogmush]

What's the difference? Are LCVs just LC dedicated to vehicles?

The acronym is actually LSV, for Logistics Support Vessel, vs, Landing Craft, Utility.

An LSV is 100(ish) feet longer, carries double the crew, displaces 3100 tons more, and routinely does ocean crossings.  LCU's tend to be used more for intratheatre lift missions.

[Ben]

Gotchya, thanks!

[Hawkmoon]

It is sad, so far we have heard

1. Mechanical failure

2. Communication failure

and

3. Navigation error.

This is another instance where even if the truth comes out no one will believe it because of all of the past falsehoods given.

That means we're closing in on the truth. We can be fairly well assured that it's NOT what the government tells us, so the more stories they spin, the more theories we can eliminate. Considering our government's history of using Naval encounters as pretexts for various and sundry purposes (anyone remember the Bay of Tonkin?), it's not difficult to accept that it may have all been part of somebody's plan.