Author Topic: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension  (Read 15507 times)

Ron

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Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« on: September 11, 2010, 11:18:48 PM »
Back in '05 I bought a MB (Trek 820) with the express purpose of getting into single track trail riding.

As it turns out, I ended up spending the majority of my time riding crushed limestone multipurpose trails, until this summer.

I finally hooked up with some folks who ride single track and have been pretty obsessed with riding single track every chance I get.

While I'm sure where I ride doesn't compare with most hotbeds of MBing activity I've found a couple places that offer some great fun. I've noticed a lot if not most are riding full suspension "all mountain" style bikes where I ride.

Not too many serious riders are using a hard tail like me where I ride. My bike is starting to show the wear and tear of being overridden by someone (me) who weighs nearly 200lbs. I'm not sure pouring money into repairing/replacing components on this bike is a good idea. I'm looking forward and thinking about upgrading for next season. The question that I'm tackling right now is "what should the next bike be?"

It will need to be versatile for all styles, downhills, technical and X country. From what I've ascertained "all mountain" is the class of bikes that would suit me. I'm intrigued by the 29ers I've seen and think I could get into a higher quality 29er than full suspension considering I'm trying to keep costs down (heh heh heh). I haven't set a budget yet but it isn't going to be a high end budget. Having said that I can pro deal a lot of different manufacturers through work so I might be able to swing something normally I couldn't.

Any mountainbikers around these parts who want to chime in?

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

MillCreek

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2010, 11:28:40 PM »
_____________
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MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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mtnbkr

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2010, 07:06:25 AM »
29ers are VERY popular here in the mid-Atlantic region.  It seems every other rider has one.

That said, if they're not common near you, you might want to stick to 26" wheels for easy tire/tube/rim availability.  Also, 29er wheels aren't quite as strong as 26".  They're strong enough, but if you're rough on gear, the average 26" wheel is a bit stronger than the average 29" wheel.  That's a generalization, but something to consider.  FWIW, I ride a 650b rigid singlespeed (was previously 26") and have started accumulating parts for a geared (1x9 speed), but fully rigid 29er (this will be bike #4!).

Also, it is better to get a good hardtail rather than a poor or mediocre FS bike.  Not only will it function better, it will last longer. 

I'm not fully up to speed with the different marketing classifications such as "All Mountain" since I build my own bikes, but I understand it to mean a bike a bit more flexible in purpose than either a cross-country or downhill rig.  They tend to be in between the other two in capability, but not quite perfect for either.  Unless your trails are very technical, rocky, rooted, etc and fast or steep, you might be better off with a good X-country bike.  Very little here in the Mid-Atlantic region really dictates a dedicated AM bike.  Most of downhillers use AM bikes as their general purpose rigs, but XC bikes still outnumber the AM bikes.  Personally, I prefer faster handling, more nimble bikes and what I've read/heard indicates AM bikes don't quite fit this because of their need to be more useful on downhill terrain.  I could be wrong, but that is my perception.

Chris

Ron

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2010, 09:06:27 AM »
Quote
Also, it is better to get a good hardtail rather than a poor or mediocre FS bike.  Not only will it function better, it will last longer.  

This is why the 29ers have hit my radar screen. I'm not going to be able to afford a higher end full suspension bike.

From all accounts a hardtail 29er will eat up rocky trails and be a better downhill bike than a comparable hardtail 26.  Also at 6'1 with a 34" inseam I'm thinking it may be a better fit for my body. My Trek is a 21" frame and the seat post is cranked up pretty high.

I work at REI and have a friends who work here in the Chicago burbs at a bike shop. Parts shouldn't be an issue.

Your description of the differences between cross country and all mountain mirror my understanding of the terms also. I've been running up to the John Muir mountain bike trails in Kettle Morraine State Forest, Wisconsin. There are several loops that are pretty rocky/rooty and have some nice downhill runs. Some technical runs and long sections of trails that are ideal cross country. I find myself really digging the fast downhills and the technical stuff that require finesse.

Thanks for the link Millcreek and input Chris.



« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 09:09:39 AM by Ron »
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

mtnbkr

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2010, 09:26:40 AM »
I've heard the same description of 29ers from those who ride them here.  Even though it's not quite the same, I can't say I noticed a larger tendency to roll over obstacles with the 650b wheels.  What I like about 29ers based on my experience is the feeling that you're "in the bike" rather than "on the bike". 

If you end up getting a 29er, Niner brand bikes seem to be pretty good.  A Niner Sir9 frame was on my radar until I found Performance's Access XCL 9r frame on sale for $120.  The price and reviews out on the 'net were too good to let that slide by.  Using parts I have on hand, I should be able to build a complete bike for just a little more than the Sir9 frame would cost by itself. :cool:

Chris

Harold Tuttle

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2010, 12:31:51 PM »
I went to a Niner demo event a couple o weeks ago

the carbon frame is a beauty

http://www.googlepixel.com/Ninerday/
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Harold Tuttle

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"The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the "Hello, my name is.." badge!
He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
He only has one purpose--Do bad things to good people! Mit science! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!"

mtnbkr

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2010, 12:49:14 PM »
Hey Harold, Speedgoat has a Voodoo 29er steel fork for $56...

It would be a nice addition to that frame. :D

Chris

Harold Tuttle

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2010, 12:59:10 PM »
"The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the "Hello, my name is.." badge!
He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
He only has one purpose--Do bad things to good people! Mit science! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!"

MillCreek

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2010, 01:23:11 PM »
I find it interesting that I am not yet seeing a lot of 29er MTBs in the Seattle area.  26 still rules the roost out here.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

mtnbkr

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2010, 01:51:43 PM »
a pox upon your wallet:
http://info.carboncycles.cc/index.php?s=0&t=2&c=43&p=197&

That looks nice.  I've already ordered the Voodoo fork though.


I find it interesting that I am not yet seeing a lot of 29er MTBs in the Seattle area.  26 still rules the roost out here.

It seems to be a very regional thing.  When I was visiting my folks in Mobile a couple years ago, one of the shops I stopped at was just getting started with 29ers.  At that time, they were already well established around NoVa.

Chris

sanglant

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2010, 03:57:41 PM »
eh, get a rivendell already. :laugh: :-X

mtnbkr

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2010, 04:41:23 PM »
eh, get a rivendell already. :laugh: :-X

I'm not quite pretentious enough. [popcorn]

Chris

dm1333

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2010, 07:15:58 PM »
Quote
It will need to be versatile for all styles, downhills, technical and X country. From what I've ascertained "all mountain" is the class of bikes that would suit me. I'm intrigued by the 29ers I've seen and think I could get into a higher quality 29er than full suspension considering I'm trying to keep costs down (heh heh heh). I haven't set a budget yet but it isn't going to be a high end budget. Having said that I can pro deal a lot of different manufacturers through work so I might be able to swing something normally I couldn't.


Before I say anything I have to profess a near total ignorance of what the heck constitutes an "all mountain" class even though I just went through the process of buying a full suspension mountain bike.  (This is off topic but when did mountain biking get so confusing?  I STILL don't understand the difference between all mountain and XC! But you have to expect this from somebody who rode the same hardtail for the last eleven years) Why do you think all mountain would suit you best and what differentiates that class from plain old XC or cross country bikes?  The reason why I am asking is that there are some pretty good XC bikes out there, like the Santa Cruz Superlight that might fit your needs.  I think the Nickel is also classified as XC even though it has 5 inches of rear travel.  The nice thing about the Santa Cruz line up is that you can buy just the frame or a complete bike.  What is your price range?  Can you test ride bikes on the trails you ride on?  Does your LBS have full suspension rental bikes and would it be possible for you to buy one of those?

I do agree that a hardtail niner will be a better downhill bike than a hard tail 26, but a decent full suspension 26" bike will probably be much better than that hardtail niner.  Before I stumbled into a good deal on a Gary Fisher (yeah, I know, a glorified Trek) I had narrowed my choices down to two bikes.  One was the Specialized FSR.  Not the highest end bike out there but for the money it seems like a pretty good bike.  My other option was to buy a Santa Cruz frame and start building the bike up.  That was the more attractive route because I would have been able to buy a good bike a little bit at a time and take my time putting it together.  Work and school take up a lot of free time, I'd rather have spent what is left riding a bike rather than building a bike.

Tuco

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2010, 07:20:54 PM »
I still dig on my '84 Stumpjumper, bullnose; 18sp deore xt setup.
It's all about the tires, man!
7-11 was a part time job.

Harold Tuttle

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2010, 07:37:23 PM »
downhill bikes are the ones you push back up the hill
"The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the "Hello, my name is.." badge!
He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
He only has one purpose--Do bad things to good people! Mit science! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!"

Ron

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2010, 09:35:03 PM »
Quote
I STILL don't understand the difference between all mountain and XC!
I feel ya man, once I started researching I came to the conclusion I didn't even know all I thought I didn't know, lol.

As best I can tell "all mountain" means not as lightweight and possibly more fork and/or suspension travel than a XC bike.

Another forum describes them as "More than XC, less than FR/DH".

I'm not looking for the lightest minimalist set-up nor the most outrageous downhill setup. I guess that is what "all mountain" is, a bike that tries to do all things well but may not be the best at one particular style.

Quote
I do agree that a hardtail niner will be a better downhill bike than a hard tail 26, but a decent full suspension 26" bike will probably be much better than that hardtail niner.
That is what I've picked up in my research also. The sticking point is that I can get into a very good 29er with higher end components for the same price of an entry level full suspension. I'd rather have the hardtail 29 with better components between the two choices.







For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

dm1333

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2010, 10:24:28 AM »
I was debating the same thing, a higher end 29'er vs. a not so high end full suspension, right up until the day I started test riding FS bikes.  Even though I spend less time riding technical stuff than a lot of riders, full suspension was a revelation to me.  I could ride farther and faster with a lot less discomfort than on my hardtail.  The full suspension rigs I rode were more comfortable and I lucked into a good deal on a bike.  If that deal hadn't come along there would probably be a Santa Cruz frame in my garage patiently awaiting parts.

My one complaint about my bike is that the front fork is a little too squishy for me when climbing out of the saddle.  I'm still playing around with the suspension settings but I may end up buying a new fork that has a lock out on it.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2010, 10:37:21 AM »
downhill bikes are the ones you push back up the hill

Not always.  On a bike ride in Utah, when I was in a little better shape, too...riding up one of the trails there....pass a guy riding a DH bike.  Full helmet with face gaurd, shin and arm pads.  It all looked pretty new, too.  He was suffering something fierce.  I muttered something about the bike shop seeing him coming but I'm not sure he heard me over his grunting and panting....
JD

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Harold Tuttle

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2010, 10:50:11 AM »
Thats right, DH bikes are the ones you use the ski lift to get to the top
and drop the hill at 63 MPH and hopefully are stout enough to absorb this action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDZgOvoen5E
"The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the "Hello, my name is.." badge!
He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
He only has one purpose--Do bad things to good people! Mit science! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!"

Harold Tuttle

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2010, 10:53:59 AM »
"The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the "Hello, my name is.." badge!
He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
He only has one purpose--Do bad things to good people! Mit science! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!"

Jamisjockey

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2010, 12:16:20 PM »
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

Ryan in Maine

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2010, 09:11:33 PM »
Can I slide a question in here? Yeah? Ok, thanks.

What are the top brands out there today? I haven't been riding since I don't remember (my last bike was a Schwinn hard tail that didn't suck). The brands I'm familiar with are:
Cannondale
Fuji
Gary Fisher
Giant
GT
Haro
Jamis
Kona
Raleigh
Specialized
Trek

Recently heard of:
Breezer
Linus
Pacific
Santa Cruz
Surly
SE

Who's good? Who's bad?

Harold Tuttle

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2010, 09:29:51 PM »
SE was "SE racing" but now its a china import

good/bad is determined buy the spendiness of the groupo

most of the frames are made in china

Add salsa, niner, Dean, & Ironhorse to the mix

http://www.mtbr.com/reviewscrx.aspx
"The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the "Hello, my name is.." badge!
He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
He only has one purpose--Do bad things to good people! Mit science! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!"

Jamisjockey

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Re: Mountain bikes, 29ers and/or full suspension
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2010, 09:39:54 PM »
Can I slide a question in here? Yeah? Ok, thanks.

What are the top brands out there today? I haven't been riding since I don't remember (my last bike was a Schwinn hard tail that didn't suck). The brands I'm familiar with are:
Cannondale
Fuji
Gary Fisher
Giant
GT
Haro
Jamis
Kona
Raleigh
Specialized
Trek

Recently heard of:
Breezer  no idea
Linus  no idea
Pacific Crap. Real crap
Santa Cruz  Good bikes
Surly  Great bikes
SE  No idea

Who's good? Who's bad?
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”