Author Topic: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo  (Read 19579 times)

grislyatoms

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,740
"Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« on: July 19, 2011, 03:37:51 PM »
Kiddo is enamored of them. I listened to a clip of "Knives and Pens". Thrashy, kind of cool.
Not good enough for me to listen to all their stuff but, anyway.

Any reason to put the kibosh on this? Again, I don't want to listen to all of it. It's been done countless times before but this is "new". For her.

Apparently they have a mascot akin to Iron Maiden's "Eddie".

I have told her I have enough heavy/thrash metal to last a lifetime (and much of it she enjoys) but she won't let go of "Black Veil Brides".

Folks? Comments?

"A son of the sea, am I" Gordon Lightfoot

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2011, 03:41:33 PM »
Iirc they were the subject of a pretty funny "Guess which one is a girl" demotivator. Seems relatively harmless, more angsty teen than serious advocacy for stuff you'd want her to stay out of.

Don't let her read Twilight though.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

grislyatoms

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,740
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2011, 03:52:47 PM »
Iirc they were the subject of a pretty funny "Guess which one is a girl" demotivator. Seems relatively harmless, more angsty teen than serious advocacy for stuff you'd want her to stay out of.

Don't let her read Twilight though.

Too late for that. I bought her all the "Twilight" novels (voracious reader) and we have the movies.
Harmless angsty I don't mind. Rather give her an outlet to blow off steam that way (and by coloring her hair) than the alternatives (tats, piercings, rap).
"A son of the sea, am I" Gordon Lightfoot

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2011, 03:59:11 PM »
Is she old enough for tattoos? And what's wrong with them if she is, says the man with several.  =D

I think all those soft-core porn for teens style novels will do far worse damage to her outlook on life than any amount of music. Although Lord knows rap is certainly highly degrading to women, I've gotta think that she'd have to be in a pretty bad place to find the attraction in being called "b####" and "ho" and treated like a sex toy by some ghetto trash. But a lot of books these days (esp Twilight) glamorize what is essentially a pedophilic abusive relationship.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

grislyatoms

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,740
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2011, 04:28:29 PM »
She is 13. And as far as the tats, 18 (I believe) here, though there must be some kind of parental consent deal for younger kids as I have seen tats on kids clearly younger than 18.

Personally, I don't have anything against tattoos. I have considered them myself, at times.

Beyond ear piercings and hair color, it ain't gonna happen until she's 18. At least, under my roof. Period.
I remember that age though, and I recognize that she needs some outlet for self-expression, and if she wants to listen to thrash and dye her hair black, I won't complain.
"A son of the sea, am I" Gordon Lightfoot

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2011, 04:35:51 PM »
Yeah, I agree with you on that.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

grislyatoms

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,740
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2011, 04:52:31 PM »
Better a piercing or two, hair dyed black, and listening to harmless angsty teen thrash than some of the other influences out here. :O Heroin use is rampant in the high schools here, which is one of the reasons I am overjoyed she is in a charter school.

I didn't get a pedophile vibe from "Twilight", the movies, anyway. Impossible boyfriends, yes, but pedophilia?
Didn't get that at all.
 
"A son of the sea, am I" Gordon Lightfoot

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2011, 05:03:28 PM »
Several hundred year old guy stalking teen girl? The imprinting thingy the werewolves do where they gain romantic attachment to little kids/infants?

And that aside, the relationship is horrifically abusive.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

AJ Dual

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,162
  • Shoe Ballistics Inc.
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2011, 05:14:15 PM »
Several hundred year old guy stalking teen girl? The imprinting thingy the werewolves do where they gain romantic attachment to little kids/infants?

And that aside, the relationship is horrifically abusive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpspGHeLOPE
I promise not to duck.

grislyatoms

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,740
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2011, 05:25:30 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpspGHeLOPE

Yesus Christo...  [barf] Anyone have any ear bleach? I only lasted about 20 seconds. [barf]
"A son of the sea, am I" Gordon Lightfoot

grislyatoms

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,740
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2011, 05:31:53 PM »
Yesus Christo...  [barf] Anyone have any ear bleach? I only lasted about 20 seconds. [barf]

Okay, yeah, I'm not going to have a problem with her listening to "Black Veil Brides". =D
"A son of the sea, am I" Gordon Lightfoot

grislyatoms

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,740
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2011, 05:37:10 PM »
Just put "Blitzkrieg" cover by Metallica on her mp3 player download list.  >:D
"A son of the sea, am I" Gordon Lightfoot

grislyatoms

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,740
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2011, 05:38:18 PM »
Hey wait a minute... well done AJ. =D
"A son of the sea, am I" Gordon Lightfoot

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2011, 06:00:14 PM »
Several hundred year old guy stalking teen girl?


Two words: Catherine Floyd.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2011, 06:20:35 PM »
Who?
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2011, 06:31:25 PM »
Who?

16-year-old whom Madison courted. He was, I think, 35 at the time.

Basically, about 90% of the 'creepy' stuff in Twilight is stuff from 18th century novels transplanted thoughtlessly into a setting with vampires. 10% is the imprinting.

...actually Edward is probably less creepy since he's clearly intended to act like an adolescent that just happens to be immortal. But yeah. THe 'stalker' behavior is exactly how guys were expected to act in the novels that SMeyer tries to imitate. You could limit your reading to 1800 and then most of your novels would be like this.

Mansfield Park is possibly creepier than Twilight.

Now, has anybody considered Pride and Prejudice as recommended reading in this age group?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2011, 06:36:29 PM »
Well, 1. I don't wholly agree with your assessment & 2. old timey folks doing bad stuff doesn't make it less bad. And then there's still the imprinting which is creepy as hell no matter how you slice it.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2011, 06:45:15 PM »
Well, 1. I don't wholly agree with your assessment & 2. old timey folks doing bad stuff doesn't make it less bad. And then there's still the imprinting which is creepy as hell no matter how you slice it.

Let's agree on the fact it's just plain a bad novel.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2011, 06:48:03 PM »
Let's agree on the fact it's just plain a bad novel.

Its relative quality is actually incidental to my point.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2011, 06:58:09 PM »
Try Les Miserables on for size.

Keep good attention to Marius' behavior in that one. There's more than one way to court someone, and apart from the obvious boundaries of consent, it's all fairly subjective. I don't see why I should somehow be disgusted by Marius' keeping Cosette's [sp?] handkerchief for weeks, even though this would be regarded as wildly inappropriate today by American reviewers. It's certainly not a moral opposition that we have to this behavior.

But we're seriously hijacking the OP's thread by now. If you want we can take it to PM?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

grislyatoms

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,740
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2011, 07:06:17 PM »
I'm responsible for what she reads. Twilight seemed innocuous, and I still believe it is. Trying to keep her reading habit fed is... difficult. Were I to leave her to her own devices,she would read every package in the house. So much like me. I used to read the encyclopedia. Grandad commented on it so much I thought I was doing something wrong...
Anyway, the point is to give her outlets for expression without going overboard and being too permissive.
 
"A son of the sea, am I" Gordon Lightfoot

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2011, 07:09:13 PM »
Now seriously: How do you feel about classic 'girls' reading'? Like Austen and Bronte and suchlike?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2011, 07:11:50 PM »
Try Les Miserables on for size.

Keep good attention to Marius' behavior in that one. There's more than one way to court someone, and apart from the obvious boundaries of consent, it's all fairly subjective. I don't see why I should somehow be disgusted by Marius' keeping Cosette's [sp?] handkerchief for weeks, even though this would be regarded as wildly inappropriate today by American reviewers. It's certainly not a moral opposition that we have to this behavior.

But we're seriously hijacking the OP's thread by now. If you want we can take it to PM?

I don't believe breaking into your intended's house was standard behaviour, even back in the day.

However, none of that is relevant to my point about the 1. massive sexualization of YA literature (Harlequin has a teen line now, I hear  [barf]) & 2. the current YA trend towards the normalization of serious issues. Nor does it address the fact that the relationship between Bella and Edward in Twilight is stalkerish and abusive, whatever various customs our ancestors may have wrote about.

However, you've made your views on teens as basically adults (which I more or less agree with) and massive sexualization of everyone as awesome (which I don't) pretty clear in a lot of other places on this forum, and I see no need to rehash all that here.

OP: be careful what you let the kid read. A lot of stuff aimed at kids is not a good influence these days. I understand there is only sio much you can do: I read just about every book in our libraries SF/Fantasy section, as well as tons of westerns, horror, detective, general lit, and even the encyclopedia once or twice. I guess I'd just say that not everything marketed towards kids is appropriate for them.


Micro, re classics: I think they are substantially different, but still not the best influence depending on the novel.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,936
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2011, 07:13:58 PM »
Now seriously: How do you feel about classic 'girls' reading'? Like Austen and Bronte and suchlike?

I'm not a parent, so take this for what it's worth, but I wouldn't consider those two authors appropriate for a 13 YO girl.  16-19 YO? Sure.  She's probably already having sex*. But 13 seems a bit young for those two authors.

*Not any particular kid, just the girls I knew back then.  No one kill me.

Boomhauer

  • Former Moderator, fired for embezzlement and abuse of power
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,338
Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2011, 07:14:47 PM »
Quote
I guess I'd just say that not everything marketed towards kids is appropriate for them.

A lot of *expletive deleted*it be it books, clothes, music, whatever marketed towards kids and teens is so inappropriate...

But then again a whole heck of a lot of parents let their kids participate in that kind of stuff...it's really the parents fault more than anything...how many 10 and 12 y.o.s have you seen dressed like hookers? Yeah...

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!