HO HO HO! Let's suck some more of the magic out of Christmas!

[K Frame]

Jesus Christ....

Out of ALL of the bullshit that parents tell their children, and this is causing angst?

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/christmas-doesn-t-need-santa-holiday-magic-i-regret-feeding-ncna1286260?fbclid=IwAR3Ld-c4lUwaxjROtTVM292pY9ygsOTh00DoWnGm2avWzq0ofhFmRZUd9U4

[cordex]

My parents never celebrated Christmas with us, and I've never celebrated it with my kids, so my perspective is from entirely outside the Christmas culture.  There are some aspects of it that I think can be really nice - music, tasteful decorations, food, pretending you don't hate your extended family, and so forth.  The Santa lie, not so much.

I skimmed her article and I didn't see anything that stood out to me as awful.

[HankB]

I enjoyed Santa stories when I was little - very little. As in preschooler.

Having begun to develop a logical mind at an early age - and not having a fireplace in our home - meant the Santa myth died for me when I was pretty young. But until that time, Santa stories never hurt me. We still continued to celebrate Christmas in my family with a tree, Christmas dinner, family gift giving, etc. (Never heard of Elf on a Shelf until a few years ago - it sounds more creepy than Christmasy.)

Didn't put up a Christmas tree for the first time this year - losing my Mom this past summer means I'm still not feeling very festive.

[Hawkmoon]

I don't remember how old I was when I learned that Santa wasn't real -- I was six when we moved into a new house and I still believed as of that Christmas and maybe a couple more, so I was probably eight or so when I learned. I don't feel that I was in any way psychologically damaged by spending a few years believing in Santa Claus.

We spent summer vacations with my grandparents in Maine. Outside their house there was a clump of low-growing evergreen stuff -- probably Blue Rug Juniper, or something like that. There was a place where the Juniper grew out over a rock to create a sheltered grotto of sorts. Before we arrived one year (when I was young), my grandmother got hold of a bunch of tiny, blown glass animal figurines (deer, mostly), and she arranged them in this little grotto. She told us the scene had been created by fairies. I believed it. So she lied -- I still to this day (70+ years later) don't feel that I was "deceived" (even though literally I was deceived), not do I feel in any way damaged. The scene may not have been created by magic, but the feelings it evoked were magical.

I don't think it's bad for kids to believe that magic might be real.

[Ben]

I don't remember how old I was when I learned that Santa wasn't real -- I was six when we moved into a new house and I still believed as of that Christmas and maybe a couple more, so I was probably eight or so when I learned. I don't feel that I was in any way psychologically damaged by spending a few years believing in Santa Claus.

Same here both on not remembering when I learned he wasn't real and that I suffered no psychological damage from learning he wasn't real (some of you may disagree with the latter  ). No different than learning the Easter Bunny didn't hide goodies. I distinctly remember believing a bunny did hide things, and then I also remember knowing it was my parents, but having a smile on my face and a heck of a lot of fun looking for the goodies anyway.

I also remember a couple of years where I was humoring my parents about Santa to not hurt their feelings. 

I don't think it's bad for kids to believe that magic might be real.

I also very much agree with this. They have their entire lives to be disappointed in a cold and cruel world. Let them have a few years of magic.

Also, Santa was of course real. Perhaps there is a path where you can let kids believe in the magical Santa, but then teach them about St Nikolaus and the good and kind deeds he did, and use him as an example of being a good person.


ETA: I'd much rather see a 4-year old that believes in Santa and magic than a 4-year old that the parent reports on twitter purportedly saying, "I'm so glad Trump lost and that we can now focus on anthropogenic global warming, equity, and transgender issues."

[RoadKingLarry]

Krampus is my spirit animal.
 

[Bogie]

Krampus is my bud... You see, when you guys are bad little boys and girls, and I KNOW you are, because my elves see EVERYTHING (Ben, your elf, Elvis, is still in counseling after one damn weekend...), I have to bring you coal.

Have you looked at the price of fossil fuels lately? Through the roof, higher than Rudolph gets after a bit of reindeer dust...

So, anyway, that's where my bud comes in... I get on my smartphone, and dial up Krampus.

"Hey, dude, I have a list for you."

"Is good. I vill put zem in bags und hit zem with sticks."

"Whatever, as long as I don't have to pay for a few more trainloads of bituminous..."

[230RN]

There were a lot of clues, hints, suspicions, doubts, before I asked my father about it and he gave me the straight skinny, softened by the universal good will all around brought by the Christmas season --the "magic."

I recall Mom was miffed that he had told me, but I was five or six (?) and had already started to expand my self-awareness to the world around me. (I remember being appalled by the revelations about the concentration camps.  Even at my young age, it was hard to miss the images in the newspapers and the fringes of adult discussions about it.  Marked me for life.)

Quote

I don't think it's bad for kids to believe that magic might be real.

Good point.  Apart from the BS about lightning bolts from the forefinger and the like.

The elf thing is a bit spooky to me mainly because it would seem to instill and reinforce the notion that there's an external entity monitoring one's behavior instead of developing an internal code of what's right and what's wrong.

I usually call it Outboard Ethics -- as opposed to Inboard Ethics.

Terry, 230RN

REF (Kind of frightening in its own way):
https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/what-is-elf-on-the-shelf/

[Bogie]

Lemme tell ya about the shelf elves.

Ever hear someone say "it takes one to know one?"

Yeah. I recruit my shelf elves from the bad elves. They know all the tricks. You're not gonna be able to fool them. Every so often, however, they get out of hand.

[dogmush]

The elf thing is a bit spooky to me mainly because it would seem to instill and reinforce the notion that there's an external entity monitoring one's behavior instead of developing an internal code of what's right and what's wrong.

I usually call it Outboard Ethics -- as opposed to Inboard Ethics.

I can think of a couple other places that idea is used well into adulthood.

[Declaration Day]

I was five when I realized Santa wasn't real.  You see, my brother and I hatched a plan to pretend to fall asleep on Christmas Eve, then catch Santa putting presents under the tree once we heard him doing so.

It turned out that Santa was none other than our dad wearing nothing but his underwear.

End of story.

[RoadKingLarry]

Lemme tell ya about the shelf elves.

Ever hear someone say "it takes one to know one?"

Yeah. I recruit my shelf elves from the bad elves. They know all the tricks. You're not gonna be able to fool them. Every so often, however, they get out of hand.

[230RN]

I can think of a couple other places that idea is used well into adulthood.

         

            Shshshhhhh.

Terry, 230RN

Pic credit in properties

[BlueStarLizzard]

So, funny I was thinking about this stuff this morning...

I don't know if I every really BELEIVED in Santa and I don't think the realization that Santa wasn't "real" was any big trauma.

I had two different sets of Christmas traditions, with each happening every other year. In Virginia, with my mom, there was the big to do on Christmas morning with tree, presents (including several from Santa) and a big stocking stuffed with so much stuff it had to be magic (my mom had real talent in the Christmas Stocking and Easter Basket stuffing skills) Then we drove out to Richmond to my maternal Grandparents where "Santa" always left a couple extra for me. In Connecticut, the big to do was on Christmas Eve, dinner, presents (during which I was center of attention for MANY years) and midnight service. Christmas morning seemed to be an afterthought and my paternal Grandma seemed to just go through the motions (dinky stocking, a couple cheap presents) before shooing me out so she could clean before her Christmas Day open house party (I remember opening my Santa presents in the foyer once because she wanted to vacuum the living room)
I honestly think the only reason there was Santa presents in CT was because my mom said so.

So, the inconsistency really nailed the coffin in the Santa myth pretty early.

However, like I said, I don't think there was any real trauma about it. It was a fun game with the Virginia family and EVERYONE played along, even when the only stockings at my Grandparents house were stuff for the cats. I think I just accepted it as such and it was fun. It's not like I was hurting for the lack in CT either. I was spoiled rotten up there, being the only child on that side of the family for most of my childhood with grandparents and aunts just doting on me.

I will say that there was no stress on the naughty/nice thing. Christmas just meant presents from a fat guy in a red suit, lots of sugar and pretty sparkly things.

Now, the Easter Bunny, OTOH, my mom had complete control over that holiday and I believed in that one for a long time. Too the point were I was inconsolable one night before Easter because Northwest went to chase something in the woods and Dad made a joke about him chasing off the Easter Bunny. Bad Scene. 

[grampster]

What the heck are you all trying to say!!!  Are you trying to say there is no Santa??   OMG OMG OMG OMG  I am devastated.

[BlueStarLizzard]

What the heck are you all trying to say!!!  Are you trying to say there is no Santa??   OMG OMG OMG OMG  I am devastated.

Does someone need to go sit on Bogie's lap?

[Bogie]

That'll happen tonight at the pub's party. Lots of bad little boys and girls... Including one who might need the Krampus treatment...

[BlueStarLizzard]

That'll happen tonight at the pub's party. Lots of bad little boys and girls... Including one who might need the Krampus treatment...

I'm not sure grampster would appreciate being tenderized...

[RoadKingLarry]

What the heck are you all trying to say!!!  Are you trying to say there is no Santa??   OMG OMG OMG OMG  I am devastated.

[MechAg94]

I don't remember my parents ever telling us Santa was real.  When we asked, my Dad said no.  We still had a lot of fun with it and watched all the Christmas movies. 

Of course, I had two older brothers so I doubt it would have lasted long if I did think Santa was real. 

These days I have a real nice Christmas Eve dinner with my parents and my aunt.  Then Christmas is crock pot food or leftovers as everyone visits at different times. 

[charby]

I remember growing up someone in a Santa Suit handing out candy canes to the kids at my home parish (Roman Catholic) after evening/sundown mass on Christmas eve. Around 10 years of age my baby brother was old enough for us to start going to midnight mass, no Santa after that mass.

[Perd Hapley]

This article is only interesting in that it takes an old debate about culturally acceptable myths for children, and puts parental angst in woke terminology. O teh noes!! Kiddos will think there are consequences to bad behavior! 

The author's anti-Santa game is weak, compared to some religious people I've heard from. 

Never heard of Elf on a Shelf until a few years ago - it sounds more creepy than Christmasy.

https://youtu.be/j1OfINrNj7E

The elf thing is a bit spooky to me mainly because it would seem to instill and reinforce the notion that there's an external entity monitoring one's behavior instead of developing an internal code of what's right and what's wrong.

You think the former undermines the latter? Wouldn't it reinforce it?

Also, I think mankind has amply demonstrated that our "improvements" on divinely-imposed morality are not improvements after all. 

[MechAg94]

This article is only interesting in that it takes an old debate about culturally acceptable myths for children, and puts parental angst in woke terminology. O teh noes!! Kiddos will think there are consequences to bad behavior! 

The author's anti-Santa game is weak, compared to some religious people I've heard from. 

https://youtu.be/j1OfINrNj7E


You think the former undermines the latter? Wouldn't it reinforce it?

Also, I think mankind has amply demonstrated that our "improvements" on divinely-imposed morality are not improvements after all. 

QFT

[230RN]

Do we have a "Quoted For Orthodoxy" (QFO) acronym listed?

[MechAg94]

Do we have a "Quoted For Orthodoxy" (QFO) acronym listed?

Only to be used by those who believe in Santa Clause.