Author Topic: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road  (Read 9389 times)

Hawkmoon

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Re: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2015, 07:58:21 AM »
Quote
The point is to deter those at the margins. To the extent that would-be imitators may view the risk of being caught to be low, many are still likely to be deterred if the stakes are sufficiently high.

This would seem to be saying that the point is to impose draconian punishments on those who are dumb enough to get caught, thereby ensuring less competition for those who are smart enough NOT to get caught.

Somehow this does not strike me as an effective strategy for eliminating the [alleged] problem.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2015, 08:00:15 AM »
I think the fact he paid up on a killing where they provided faked photo proof of death is a big factor in the courts sentence.

If he wasn't charged with that, his sentence should not have taken that "into account."
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2015, 08:18:38 AM »
It is part of the larger criminal enterprise . A simple murder would not have got him life without parole, twice. It was under the kingpin law that they charged him.


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MechAg94

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Re: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2015, 02:43:19 PM »
It is part of the larger criminal enterprise . A simple murder would not have got him life without parole, twice. It was under the kingpin law that they charged him.


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Nevertheless, they left him grounds for appeal. 
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2015, 03:09:47 PM »
Remember on appeal they can increase sentences as well as reduce so one needs be careful.
Plus he's still got 2 murders he WAS apparently charged with.
Asking to see video of an employee tortured and murdered us unlikely to generate a favorable review
http://www.businessinsider.com/ross-ulbricht-charged-in-2nd-silk-road-murder-for-hire-plot-2013-10



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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Re: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2015, 03:23:11 PM »
Remember on appeal they can increase sentences as well as reduce so one needs be careful.

What's he gonna get, two more life sentences?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2015, 03:43:34 PM »
What's he gonna get, two more life sentences?

Thats how it gets complex. Does he just appeal those? Or the other charges too? Or run em through as separate appeals and run up the bill?
And should he prevail will they rack him on the pending md charges? My understanding is one of the feds in that case has issues/charges of his own .
Hes gotta allocate resources. I assume he turned down any deals the feds offered.
Hes also gotta worry that someone will knock him off to seal off any chance of him squealing. Everyone wants to play gangsta till the *expletive deleted*it gets real. I am a quarter century almost away from that lifestyle and its still remotely possible for old stuff to bite me in the butt

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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RevDisk

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Re: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2015, 10:30:03 AM »
In this case the murders were a part if the larger criminal enterprise he does not need a separate conviction for murder for them to factor into his guilt here and sentence but without them I doubt life without parole woulda been possible. And his own own words were most damning. The fact that he actually paid up after seeing photo proof finished him. He could win on appeal but I would not hold my breath. And that md case is still hanging

*blink*

I was under the impression that you can't be punished by the courts for an action without a conviction. That whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing. If you can be sentenced for crimes mentioned in passing by the prosecution, we really have shredded the Constitution. That's like the prosecution alleging that the defendant listened to Nickelback while speeding, and the judge tossed the person in for 10 years. 

Dude was convicted of running a board that expressly intended to distribute drugs. That's obviously illegal. 20 years max was reasonable, and that's what the prosecution suggested. Throwing life sentence at a dude for running the Silk Road was excessive, even by the recommendation of the prosecution. It'll get tossed on appeal.
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Re: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2015, 10:32:33 AM »
That's like the prosecution alleging that the defendant listened to Nickelback while speeding, and the judge tossed the person in for 10 years. 

Let the punishment fit the crime...  =D
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2015, 11:04:13 AM »
*blink*

I was under the impression that you can't be punished by the courts for an action without a conviction. That whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing. If you can be sentenced for crimes mentioned in passing by the prosecution, we really have shredded the Constitution. That's like the prosecution alleging that the defendant listened to Nickelback while speeding, and the judge tossed the person in for 10 years. 

Dude was convicted of running a board that expressly intended to distribute drugs. That's obviously illegal. 20 years max was reasonable, and that's what the prosecution suggested. Throwing life sentence at a dude for running the Silk Road was excessive, even by the recommendation of the prosecution. It'll get tossed on appeal.


Ed is okay with it if you're allegedly a really bad dude.  Screw all that Constitution stuff.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2015, 01:22:40 PM »
*blink*

I was under the impression that you can't be punished by the courts for an action without a conviction. That whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing. If you can be sentenced for crimes mentioned in passing by the prosecution, we really have shredded the Constitution. That's like the prosecution alleging that the defendant listened to Nickelback while speeding, and the judge tossed the person in for 10 years. 

Dude was convicted of running a board that expressly intended to distribute drugs. That's obviously illegal. 20 years max was reasonable, and that's what the prosecution suggested. Throwing life sentence at a dude for running the Silk Road was excessive, even by the recommendation of the prosecution. It'll get tossed on appeal.
Your understanding of what he was convicted of is not congruent with the facts. Or perhaps your understanding of how the kingpin laws work is incomplete. He was in this trial convicted for the hits or attempted hits. They were part and parcel of the kingpin act evidence.
And it was his own words and arrogance that sealed his fate.


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2015, 01:30:12 PM »
Perhaps this will help. He coulda gotten the death penalty if the prove he killed or had anyone killed. And that is the risk he runs on appeal. If they can pull off a conviction for a murder he could get the death penalty still on appeal.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_Criminal_Enterprise


I suspect that's low risk considering how the east coast case is tainted but you never know. They may find a body or someone could still come forth and put one of the 5 killings on him.  Ironically his own words would be corroborative evidence.


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2015, 01:58:13 PM »
And here's a transcript that was evidence in his trial. His attorneys were going to address this in closing.
Not so much
http://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-boss-ordering-5-assassinations/
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2015, 02:09:46 PM »
And the first faked murder is a tuff one for him to get out from under
http://www.wired.com/2015/04/silk-road-boss-first-murder-attempt-mentors-idea/
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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MechAg94

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Re: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2017, 09:19:22 PM »
Maybe I missed it.  Was the life sentence for massive illegal drug dealing or was some other charge included?

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sumpnz

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Re: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2017, 10:05:21 PM »
Maybe I missed it.  Was the life sentence for massive illegal drug dealing or was some other charge included?



According to the article it was mostly for solicitation of murder.  Though he never succeeded in bumping anyone off (that we know of).

Hawkmoon

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2017, 10:52:27 PM »
Couldn't read the article unless I disabled my ad blocker.

Not gonna happen.


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Firethorn

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Re: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2017, 05:10:57 AM »
The contract killings they didn't charge or convict him for?

Indeed.  I'm reminded of the Bundys, and why they were found innocent - the prosecution wouldn't be honest about how many undercover agents were with them through the period, and how much 'encouragement' they did.

Same deal here.  The failure to charge him with the attempted murders(hiring a contract killer counts) indicates to me that the charges would fall apart in a way to prejudice their cases against him for the actual drug stuff.

I mean, paying a DEA agent $80k to kill somebody is normally a slam dunk, you know?

Maybe I missed it.  Was the life sentence for massive illegal drug dealing or was some other charge included?

Drug dealing, he was sentenced under laws intended to put away kingpins.  Which, to be fair, he pretty much was.

On the other hand, bringing up the contract killings, for which he's never been so much as charged, in sentencing is a violation I think.  Because he isn't able to defend himself against charges that are not brought, even if they're used in sentencing considerations.

AJ Dual

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Re: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #45 on: June 02, 2017, 11:11:50 AM »
Firethorn, it doesn't matter, being all factual and stuff...

The whole point about certain people excitedly going on and on about Dread Pirate Roberts conviction and sentence is just a proxy for being upset at the idea large numbers of people can simply bypass the state and do as they please. Despite the veneer of factuality, it's really an emotional argument that you're dealing with.

Because of course, lessons were learned, and Silk Road 2.0, then 3.0 will be made better and more secure and anonymous each time the state finds a way to take it down.

The wisdom of using drugs recreationally, or abusing them because one is addicted aside, much like the nascent cottage industry of printing guns, or how the porn industry was one of the largest driving forces in the early days of home VCR's, and the Internet... it shows there's at least the possibility people will leverage technology to find more and more ways to disregard, bypass, and ultimately obsolete the state.

Granted, this can be tougher with things like "roads", but even there might be a solution. There the state can still use the physical threat of force, death, or imprisonment. But it gets difficult if those agents of the state are not getting paid. If Bitcoin, or something like it becomes popular to the point it attains critical mass, and people use it en-masse to avoid taxes, and employers and mainstream businesses start using it...

I'd never be so bold as to say this will one day be fait accompli, but anything that moves the needle even a tiny bit in this direction is very threatening to people with a certain type of personality. Low self-esteem, or other issues, some people can't judge their own self-worth without an external benchmark of some sort. Be it "God" or religion, a parent, and for some the state serves this function.

Some people just instinctively look to the government and the police for that pat on the head and to be told they're a "good boy".
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Firethorn

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Re: Dread Pirate Roberts receives life without parole for Silk Road
« Reply #46 on: June 02, 2017, 02:22:42 PM »
Because of course, lessons were learned, and Silk Road 2.0, then 3.0 will be made better and more secure and anonymous each time the state finds a way to take it down.

It's already happening.  We're already on silk road 7.0 or so, actually.  2 and 3 were by associates of DPR and the feds already had them in their sights, so were taken down relatively quickly(the feds improve over time as well). 

Quote
The wisdom of using drugs recreationally, or abusing them because one is addicted aside, much like the nascent cottage industry of printing guns, or how the porn industry was one of the largest driving forces in the early days of home VCR's, and the Internet... it shows there's at least the possibility people will leverage technology to find more and more ways to disregard, bypass, and ultimately obsolete the state.

Indeed, it's something of a mixed bag, isn't it?  And yeah, I don't feel the need to get into another discussion about what I'd do with the "war on drugs".