But AZ, these measures are for your safety. And the inspectors are wearing cool blue nitrile gloves, so what's to worry?
Seriously, the inspectors I've dealt with recently have been courteous and professional. Still irks me to go through all the screening crap while contemplating all of our other virtually unguarded vulnerabilties.
Neither my wife or I will ever fly again. I refuse to be treated like this. Vote with your money, if no one is flying, the airlines will demand the TSA change their policies.As an airline employee, I have no complaint with that approach.
Screw this. I'm not flying. And I'm writing my newly elected Congresscritter and carefully explaining that I'm not voting at the future, as well as encourage others to give their money and votes to someone else, if this agency is not decimated or completely eliminated. It is more of a threat to the United States than any terrorist organization.
I encourage others here to do the same.
Someone once told me a good argument about the limitations of government was to ask someone the following question. "Would it be acceptable for a government to sexually assault someone?" Today, we are faced with that question. It's not theoretical, or a "one off" incident. Does the US government have the right to sexually assault hundreds of American citizens each and every day?
I was wondering when the revolt would begin.
Two things to watch for. First, look for stories regarding vested interests by security bureaucrats in the companies that manufacture whole body scanners. Second, look for stories about excessive radiation exposure for those who use the scanners.
Remember, Senators, Congressmen, and the bureaucrats have exempted themselves from insider trading laws.
Remember that they are not satisfied with ruining air travel...the DHS wants to control EVERYTHING. Remember that they want to mount backscatter xray machines on trucks and look in your house...
I hope the Tea Party candidates that won office take a good look at the Patriot Act, DHS and the TSA in the next 2 years.
I hope the Tea Party candidates that won office take a good look at the Patriot Act, DHS and the TSA in the next 2 years.And when they do, I hope they won't like what they see.
Meanwhile all the dangerous stuff is being loaded into the cargo bays of your aircraft byillegal alienser,undocumented workerser..islamic fanatic tribalist despotsgang-related individualsfamily oriented people who have traveled thousands of miles on foot who only want to work jobs Americans don't want, with very little scrutiny.
Missed one....
Wonder how the higher-level TSA types would react if some of their personal info (including peeping-tom pics) ended up spread out on the Internet?.....
Remember, Remember the 5th of November...(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffc08.deviantart.net%2Ffs36%2Ff%2F2008%2F279%2F2%2F2%2FV_for_Vendetta_emoticon_by_nickells.png&hash=f12dbea363362f48e74d41630000af396e48618a)
Frankly, I consider them traitors (and worthy of a traitor's end) rather than myself a revolutionary. No good reason to ruin such beautiful neoclassical architecture, as the foundations are worthy. It is the white and black trash additions that are not up to code that must go.
"We spend my child's whole life telling him that only mom, dad and a doctor can touch you in your private area, and now we have to add TSA agent and that's just wrong," he told Reuters. "At some point the terrorists have won."
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AA55S20101111
The man's right. When we are so crippled by fear that we can excuse children being molested in front of their parents and being necessary the terrorists have won.
Seriously what happened to those sniffer machines that blew air on you to detect explosives. I went through one at LAX in '04 IIRC, and that was a breeze. Like a metal detector only you have to stand there for a couple of seconds longer and you get a nice cool blast of air that hits you for a second. They had them 6 years ago, why can't they bring those back in force, it would save our dignity and the TSA a lot of controversy. Sometimes I seriously think that some folks in to gov just sit around all day and think "What can we get away with today?"
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AA55S20101111
The man's right. When we are so crippled by fear that we can excuse children being molested in front of their parents and being necessary the terrorists have won.
Dear Friend:
Thank you for contacting me regarding airline safety and security. I welcome your thoughts and comments.
As the Ranking Member of the Senate Commerce, Science, and Transportation Committee, I understand the importance of aviation security. Since our nation was attacked on 9/11, we have instituted many effective policies to protect us against the threat of future terrorist attacks. Many of these policies naturally impact the transportation sectors in the U.S., particularly at airports. Unfortunately, these security policies systematically failed with the nearly successful terrorist attack on one of our airliners on Christmas Day 2009 by an Al Qaeda-trained Nigerian terrorist. This disturbing incident highlights the evolving nature of terrorist threats against our country.
In response to the December 25, 2009 attempted attack, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) announced plans to enhance passenger screening and detection capabilities, including an increase in the deployment of advanced imaging technology (AIT) machines, also known as "body imaging scanners", from 878 units to 1,800 units by 2014. The AIT produces an image of a passenger's body that a screener can use to identify objects or anomalies on the outside of the physical body. TSA officials have also indicated they hope to use this technology for primary screening where feasible, rather than as a strictly secondary measure. However, passengers concerned for their personal privacy may always opt for traditional screening methods.
We must ensure that the federal security agencies entrusted with protecting us can adapt the detection and prevention measures we employ to stay ahead of these changing threats. It is clear that the current measures in place were inadequate to prevent this type of plot. The country was very fortunate that when the device malfunctioned the crew and passengers of flight 253 acted heroically. Our nation must do better.
Along with this increased commitment comes an increased responsibility on the part of the security agents and administrators. TSA must pay close attention to the privacy concerns of individuals, consistently demonstrate reasonable judgment, and perform its duties in a highly professional manner. Failure to exercise sound judgment and professionalism is not acceptable. Please be assured that I will continue to do everything in my power to hold security providers accountable.
I appreciate hearing from you, and I hope that you will not hesitate to contact me on any issue that is important to you.
Sincerely,
Kay Bailey Hutchison
United States Senator
284 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
202-224-5922 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 202-224-5922 end_of_the_skype_highlighting (tel)
202-224-0776 (fax)
http://hutchison.senate.gov
What needs to happen is a woman (not being sexist, but it'll have to be a woman to work) being groped *slaps* the TSA agent when he grabs her crotch or her boobs. A hard slap. She'll be arrested, of course, but that will be the Rosa Parks moment.Not likely to happen. They have male and female personnel on hand for just that, IIRC.
JJ:
You finally feel Texas's pain with regard to Senator Squish. Makes Governor Goodhair look great in comparison.
Not likely to happen. They have male and female personnel on hand for just that, IIRC.So a female TSA agent groping a female passenger is OK?
What needs to happen is a woman (not being sexist, but it'll have to be a woman to work) being groped *slaps* the TSA agent when he grabs her crotch or her boobs. A hard slap. She'll be arrested, of course, but that will be the Rosa Parks moment.
So a female TSA agent groping a female passenger is OK?No, just more likely to get away with it in the current era, IMO. After all, certain groups really believe that "all men are dogs/rapists."
No, just more likely to get away with it in the current era, IMO. After all, certain groups really believe that "all men are dogs/rapists."
And any reaction to same-sex groping would no doubt be spun as homophobia.
Hmmm...
So what would the possible reactions be if they check a gay man, and he just smiles?
Something tells me there's comedy gold in there...
[popcorn]
Oh, you better believe I will act like I enjoy every minute of it. I will make the TSAweenie feel like he's the one who just got molested...
So, what if - just for the sake of argument - I would claim to be "gay" and demand a female to pat me down ?Probably wouldn't let you, though it's worth a try.
Probably wouldn't let you, though it's worth a try.
Not likely to happen. They have male and female personnel on hand for just that, IIRC.
Funny -- they don't have these things in Israel, they have bomb sniffing dogs and security agents trained to spot people who might be carrying/wearing bombs, and they haven't had any planes blown up. The only reason that won't work for the U.S. is that the U.S. gummint doesn't want it to work.
I wonder what would happen if ya had a raging boner when they groped you? I'd love to see the look on the TSA guys face if he crabbed someones hard-on!
I too am done with flying. I can get across the country just fine on wheels and enjoy watching the landscape change as I do so. Getting scanned, groped and treated like a crimminal for purchasing the services of an airline is not in the equation.
A blogger recounts his encounter with the TSA this morning.
http://johnnyedge.blogspot.com/2010/11/these-events-took-place-roughly-between.html#comment-form
Sadly not everyone is willing to stand up to the TSA, even when their children are involved.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/69522.html
[barf]
Many of us are now afraid to fly. Not because of terrorists, but because of our own government.
I also plan on refusing any work travel via commercial aircraft under current conditions. Don't know how well it will go over, but I'm certainly going to give it a try.
That Johnnyedge.com guy is awesome. I haven't flown since the machines started to really be distributed. I'm not sure if I would have the guts to do what he did. I would like to think so, and to think that more people would.
I do know that I'm not flying for personal travel as long as this is going on. There's lots of great places that I can see via my private auto, where I can carry more than 4oz of toothpaste, as well as a gun. I also plan on refusing any work travel via commercial aircraft under current conditions. Don't know how well it will go over, but I'm certainly going to give it a try.
Sadly not everyone is willing to stand up to the TSA, even when their children are involved
Probably wouldn't let you, though it's worth a try.
I wonder what would happen if ya had a raging boner when they groped you? I'd love to see the look on the TSA guys face if he crabbed someones hard-on!
I have a stupid question.
Every sample screening picture I've seen shows the subject with a knife or gun.
Do these things pick up non metallic objects? Like explosives?
I guess what I'm asking is if they actually work to detect the stuff they are supposed to be "protecting" us from?
It won't be long before a dedicated jihadist has something planted under his skin.A guy in Saudi Arabia smuggled a bomb in his backside and nearly killed one of the fifty thousand members of their royal family.
They will keep trying.
And Amerika will keep coming up with more invasive ways to make us "safe".
A guy in Saudi Arabia smuggled a bomb in his backside and nearly killed one of the fifty thousand members of their royal family.He failed, but made a hell of a mess in the palace...
I have a stupid question.
Every sample screening picture I've seen shows the subject with a knife or gun.
Do these things pick up non metallic objects? Like explosives?
I guess what I'm asking is if they actually work to detect the stuff they are supposed to be "protecting" us from?
No.
The last impetus that caused TSA to go apey for the pono-scopes was the Underwear Bomber who turned his hardware into charcoaled bits. Of course, it was quickly demonstrated that the particular method he used would not have shown up on the porno-scope, but that was quickly swept under the rug.
Lemme know how jacking up that TSA agent who cops a feel of your kid works out for you.
The problem is that short of drastic action that will land you in jail, there isn't much of a way of standing up to TSA. Even simply saying something ends with you in handcuffs and TSA 'tards getting their "respect ma authoritah!" on.
And next will be a tactic that is already employed in Iraq and Afghanistan. They will take advantage of the long lines and blow themselves up or go on a shooting spree at the actual checkpoints.You know, this is exactly what was going through my head when I was in a line to a checkpoint in Orlando last year. There were actually six or so parallel lines, a sizable crowd of people, all standing in one place.
It is only a matter of time before a TSA drone is cold-cocked.
And on a disturbingly ironic note (SFW):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cjd/1418632004/?ref=nf
"requiring that a potential passenger be allowed to revoke consent to an ongoing airport security search makes little sense in a post-9/11 world. Such a rule would afford terrorists multiple opportunities to attempt to penetrate airport security by 'electing not to fly' on the cusp of detection until a vulnerable portal is found."
...
I'm learning to fly. I'm not letting the bovine government lock me to the ground, and I'm not putting up with the TSA bull. I WILL assert my freedom.
It is only a matter of time before a TSA drone is cold-cocked.nah, i'm not planning on flying anytime soon. :angel:
Shifty Arabs are the problem. Period. End of sentence.
Don't they compel private pilots with their own private planes/helicopters to comply with that same bullshit short of using only very small privately owned air fields?
If the non-existent security at charter/private hangars proves what we've got now is security theater, I don't know what does.
Not that I'm not glad the private side still has some breathing room.
I'm still not sure how half of the TSA folks I see could pass a security clearance of any kind.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/08/court-says-trav/
read it and weep
At this rate, it won't be too long before we have strip search roadblocks along the highways :mad:
Don't they compel private pilots with their own private planes/helicopters to comply with that same bullshit short of using only very small privately owned air fields?
Not yet. if you visit a controlled airport, you must either have a ramp pass or be escorted by someone with one.This.
I say "yet" because TSA is desperate to regulate GA, of course.
Until then, I get to fly with an M4 clone and my M&P, heh...
Except when it's not an Arab. Like the British born shoe bomber.
Michael J. Aguilar, chief of the TSA office in San Diego, called a news conference at the airport Monday afternoon to announce the probe. He said the investigation could lead to prosecution and civil penalties of up to $11,000.
TSA agents had told Tyner on Saturday that he could be fined up to $10,000.
“That’s the old fine,” Aguilar said. “It has been increased.”
The Government: Your Enemy
Living inside a dystopian science fiction story is not nearly as fun as reading it in a book or watching it on a movie/tv screen.
I wish we at least had the SciFi to go along with our oppression. :(
Chris
TSA agents had told Tyner on Saturday that he could be fined up to $10,000.
“That’s the old fine,” Aguilar said. “It has been increased.”
"This one goes to 11"
This crap does remind me of Halflife II (minus the head crabs and whatnot). =| That's more sci-fi than I'm comfortable with.
This crap does remind me of Halflife II (minus the head crabs and whatnot). =| That's more sci-fi than I'm comfortable with.
Living inside a dystopian science fiction story is not nearly as fun as reading it in a book or watching it on a movie/tv screen.
TSA procurement specifications require the ability to transmit and/or save said images. TSA promises they are not using the features they require.
Whether or not the machines can save the pictures, any idiot with a cellphone camera can make a copy. They just have to get a clear picture of the screen.
I bet it's already been done.
Ya know, the backscatter images from the Gizmodo video certainly didn't look all that detailed to me. ???
Ya know, the backscatter images from the Gizmodo video certainly didn't look all that detailed to me. ???
A Gizmodo investigation has revealed 100 of the photographs saved by the Gen 2 millimeter wave scanner from Brijot Imaging Systems, Inc., obtained by a FOIA request after it was recently revealed that U.S. Marshals operating the machine in the Orlando, Florida courthouse had improperly-perhaps illegally-saved images of the scans of public servants and private citizens.
While the fidelity of the scans from this machine are of surprisingly low resolution, especially compared to the higher resolution "naked scanners" using the potentially harmful x-ray backscatter technology, the TSA and other government agencies have repeatedly touted the quality of "Advanced Imaging Technology" while simultaneously assuring customers that operators "cannot store, print, transmit or save the image, and the image."
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.spong.com%2Fnews%2Fg%2Fo%2Fgordonfree280821%2F_-Gordon-Freeman-on-the-Case-Large-Hadron-Collider-Safe-_.jpg&hash=77cdfc2d143993d23e467409104fc0d608e31ecc)
The Government: Your Enemy
us marshalls at a courthouse does not equal tsa i don't care how loud alex jones says itYeah, they are probably much more qualified and more ethical.
us marshalls at a courthouse does not equal tsa i don't care how loud alex jones says it
If this keeps up, won't people just stop flying, to the point that airlines pressure TSA to be less Ultraviolet* with the searching?Actually, it's more Total Recall
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_%28film%29
the proper response is for passengers to go zardoz in their travelling wear
Wonder what would happen if you ID'd the TSA goons' cars and started putting Pedo-Bear stickers on them at random times.....
Airports can dump the TSA and hire private screeners:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Amid-airport-anger_-GOP-takes-aim-at-screening-1576602-108259869.html
What y'all think?
I think that's just a stupid idea.
Why would I want to clear my weapon? =D
DD
Perhaps the way to fight back is to ridicule the TSA monkey. Psychological warfare: "You must have the crappiest job in the world, handling people's balls all day. How do you keep from just shooting yourself in the mornings?" And of course, "Who's your daddy?" (Use your imagination for other more degrading things to say to turn the tables on the halfwit who is trying to humilate *you*)Wouldn't make any difference unless you ridiculed the head monkey. It's not like the rank-and-file guys said "hey, we're bored here. The lines get through too fast. We want to see more nekkid old people, and want to frisk people's fat rolls. Can you help us out?"
But that's never been tried before! ;)
I wonder if there is any (reasonable) objection to both privatizing security AND letting airlines make all their own rules on what to allow on board. So Airline A goes for the full pat-down and X-ray, no nail clippers or toothpaste on board; while Airline B just checks the no-fly list and puts a weapons-clearing station next to the door. Let the market decide between A, B, or somewhere in the middle.
What y'all think?
To switch over to your magazine of frangible ammunition, silly.
You should read this thread on this fishing board I'm on. Frigginconservativefascits....its for the children....its for your own good....you're un american for fighting this.... :facepalm:
Fixed....I don't think the Founding Fathers would have supported any of this mess....but Hitler and Co. would have....
Definition of CONSERVATIVE
1
: preservative
2
a : of or relating to a philosophy of conservatism b capitalized : of or constituting a political party professing the principles of conservatism: as (1) : of or constituting a party of the United Kingdom advocating support of established institutions (2) : progressive conservative
3
a : tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions : traditional b : marked by moderation or caution <a conservative estimate> c : marked by or relating to traditional norms of taste, elegance, style, or manners
Definition of CONSERVATISM
1
capitalized a : the principles and policies of a Conservative party b : the Conservative party
2
a : disposition in politics to preserve what is established b : a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change; specifically : such a philosophy calling for lower taxes, limited government regulation of business and investing, a strong national defense, and individual financial responsibility for personal needs (as retirement income or health-care coverage)
3
: the tendency to prefer an existing or traditional situation to change
To switch over to your magazine of frangible ammunition, silly.Do you really think that aluminum skin of a jet liner will stop frangible ammo?
You don't call yourself a Revolutionary, a Patriot, and a High Minded Son of Liberty... and call yourself a Conservative at the same time.True, if you want to use 100 year old definitions of the words. By that measure, you wouldn't call Democrats liberal or progressive either. They would just be hard left socialists of one stripe or another. The modern use of those words today is very skewed from the dictionary definition. I seriously doubt abortion ever entered the picture for the FF's either, but some people today think conservative means "pro-life".
You should read this thread on this fishing board I'm on. Friggin conservative fascits....its for the children....its for your own good....you're un american for fighting this.... :facepalm:
us marshalls at a courthouse does not equal tsa i don't care how loud alex jones says it
The TSA has promised us the images can't be saved. Same machines.
I don't think the FF's were conservative.
Conservative just means "wanting to maintain the status quo." Look at the Stupid Party's track record, even. ...... They weren't looking to protect existing institutions. Unless you consider the a priori illegitimate self governing bodies of New England. Which they didn't preserve, either.
You don't call yourself a Revolutionary, a Patriot, and a High Minded Son of Liberty... and call yourself a Conservative at the same time....
You are right; by our standards. The term "liberal" today is NOT the same as what the founders would think and neither is "conservative." We (or atleast myself) consider ourselves "conservative" because we want to "conserve" what the founders gave us. NOT what King George considered "good" :O government. I do disagree with your last sentence; you can consider yourself a patriot and a conservative. You can also consider yourself "a High Minded Son of Liberty" and a patriot. Now, the "revolutionary" part ... yeah, that doesn't go too well with "conservative", does it? ;/ =D
But the earlier were primarily a matter of opinion.
Wow - this is insane. I took my last flight on a commercial carrier with carry on only, and I got to take all the liquids and water I wanted. No one asked me for a ticket to pass through security, I left my shoes on, and no one touched me.
4 page document signed by some very knowledgeable PhDs and MDs about the effects of the TSA Backscatter Xray machines.
http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2010/05/17/concern.pdf (http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2010/05/17/concern.pdf)
4 guys at u of sf? thats a sampling.... ask em how much radiation you get on the flight itself at 35 k feet and compare the amounts
Did you bother to read the document?
The X-ray dose from these devices has often been compared in the media to the cosmic
ray exposure inherent to airplane travel or that of a chest X-ray. However, this
comparison is very misleading: both the air travel cosmic ray exposure and chest Xrays
have much higher X-ray energies and the health consequences are appropriately
understood in terms of the whole body volume dose. In contrast, these new airport
scanners are largely depositing their energy into the skin and immediately adjacent
tissue, and since this is such a small fraction of body weight/vol, possibly by one to two
orders of magnitude, the real dose to the skin is now high.
In addition, it appears that real independent safety data do not exist. A search,
ultimately finding top FDA radiation physics staff, suggests that the relevant radiation
quantity, the Flux [photons per unit area and time (because this is a scanning device)]
has not been characterized. Instead an indirect test (Air Kerma) was made that
emphasized the whole body exposure value, and thus it appears that the danger is low
when compared to cosmic rays during airplane travel and a chest X-ray dose.
Bolding mine. The crux seems to be no real studies have been done. We just have the TSA's promise that their machines are safe. Just like the promise that they can't store images......
: both the air travel cosmic ray exposure and chest Xrays
have much higher X-ray energies and the health consequences are appropriately
understood in terms of the whole body volume dose
the real dose to the skin is now high.
how high is it? we have four "experts" at one school surely one of em can come closer than 1 to 2 orders of magnitude? thats a pretty broad range to toss a swag at. especially since the flight itself is characterized as one order of magnitude higher than the scan
In summary, if the key data (flux-integrated photons per unit values) were available, it would be straightforward to accurately model the dose being deposited in the skin and adjacent tissues using available computer codes, which would resolve the potential concerns over radiation damage.
4 page document signed by some very knowledgeable PhDs and MDs about the effects of the TSA Backscatter Xray machines.
http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2010/05/17/concern.pdf (http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2010/05/17/concern.pdf)
how high is it? we have four "experts" at one school surely one of em can come closer than 1 to 2 orders of magnitude? thats a pretty broad range to toss a swag at. especially since the flight itself is characterized as one order of magnitude higher than the scan
how high is it? we have four "experts" at one school surely one of em can come closer than 1 to 2 orders of magnitude? thats a pretty broad range to toss a swag at. especially since the flight itself is characterized as one order of magnitude higher than the scan
4 guys at u of sf? thats a sampling.... ask em how much radiation you get on the flight itself at 35 k feet and compare the amounts
looking into a 3 year old's pants?Yes around the 30 second mark does look rather like it.
i watched it twice where did that happen? i hope you aren't using .33?
Yes around the 30 second mark does look rather like it.
Irregardless, WTF purpose does it serve to give a detailed wanding to a three year old?
calling that looking in the kids pants is a reachMaybe, but if that's my kid I don't care if the TSA guys takes a quick peak or makes sure to thoroughly examine his johnson, the SOAB still looked down my kids pants.
http://hillbuzz.org/2009/12/28/could-the-underwear-bomb-herald-the-coming-diaper-bomb/
True, if you want to use 100 year old definitions of the words. By that measure, you wouldn't call Democrats liberal or progressive either.
Yes around the 30 second mark does look rather like it.
Irregardless, WTF purpose does it serve to give a detailed wanding to a three year old?
calling that looking in the kids pants is a reach
http://hillbuzz.org/2009/12/28/could-the-underwear-bomb-herald-the-coming-diaper-bomb/
No, they promised "won't". They required in the procurement requirements that the images can be saved and transmitted. Otherwise the machine isn't meeting the contract requirements and the vendor could face a lawsuit.
Where in the *expletive deleted* are we headed as a nation that this is even remotely accepted?I think we already know the answer, and it's a depressing one indeed.
Do you really think that aluminum skin of a jet liner will stop frangible ammo?
Not really. But there is a lot of other stuff tacked onto the inside of a modern aircraft's hull that might stop frangible ammunition.
But I'm with you about the actual necessity of using it. It takes a really big hole to have an explosive decompression in an aircraft at high altitude. And if you have a really big hole in your airplane, methinks you have other, more important problems to deal with.
True, if you want to use 100 year old definitions of the words. By that measure, you wouldn't call Democrats liberal or progressive either.
I don't care much about who sees me nekkid,
Pics or I call BS. :P
Nyet.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-11-15-column15_ST1_N.htm
"The imaging technology that we use cannot store, export, print or transmit images."
You and I both know she is lying. But the depth of the lie makes it even worse.
Nyet.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-11-15-column15_ST1_N.htm
"The imaging technology that we use cannot store, export, print or transmit images."
You and I both know she is lying. But the depth of the lie makes it even worse.
http://epic.org/open_gov/foia/TSA_Procurement_Specs.pdf
3.1.1.2
3.1.1.3.1.2
3.1.1.5.1
and Appendix A.
Shouldn't we just nuke Fistful from orbit. Preemptively, as it were?
Not really. But there is a lot of other stuff tacked onto the inside of a modern aircraft's hull that might stop frangible ammunition.
But I'm with you about the actual necessity of using it. It takes a really big hole to have an explosive decompression in an aircraft at high altitude. And if you have a really big hole in your airplane, methinks you have other, more important problems to deal with.
Yes, I blame the Drudge Report for this insane controversy about the use of high-tech body scanners and "pat-downs" at airport security zones.Hello Emmett, meet the internet. Have a look around and you will find many other sites pissed off about this too.
How many more Americans would welcome a soothing pat-down midst the hurly-burly of travel at our nation's stress-filled airports I do not know, but count me in -- especially if the patter-downer is a cute little number on the order of, say, Sarah Palin.
So... what if you actually have something in your pants - like a zuchinni for instance?
(are vegetables illegal now?)
What do they do then ???
Stopping the threat is the goal. Modern JHPs do that better than frangible. No agency that I know of uses frangible ammo on aircraft.
So... what if you actually have something in your pants - like a zuchinni for instance?
(are vegetables illegal now?)
What do they do then ???
Should a woman have to submit to being raped? I mean, after all, there might be a bomb up there.
You trying to squash our freedom?
We will do ANYTHING to avoid "profiling," anything to avoid doing what makes sense to win this war. America should have mobilized nine years ago. Our airports are the only place most Americans have any contact with The Great Unpleasantness.
profiling carrys the seeds for fail
???
profiling carrys the seeds for fail
Pics or I call BS. :P
???
What does that mean?
You do realize there are different ways to profile, and, that no "profile" has to remain static?
The Israelis seem to have it right. They don't have airplanes falling out of the sky every day.
Nekkid pics is not the same thing as nekkid.
"Introducing the American Traveler Dignity Act"
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=39467
Go, Ron!
Mr. Flake:
I write you to urge that you co-sponsor the newly proposed legislation that Dr. Paul from TX has presented to the House: The American Traveler Dignity Act.
I tell you now, that I have sworn off flying. I have a good life and would very much like to travel and visit parts of our country I've yet to see. DC, NY, the home of the American Revolution in Lexington and Concord...there are many places in this country I'd like to explore.
But I'm not setting one foot on airport property if I'm subject to a choice of:
1. Either being compelled to have naked pictures taken of me
2. or being groped by a sub-$10/hr high school dropout bureaucrat
I tell you now, I absolutely will not relent in this. I'll get my private pilot's license before submitting to such debased treatment.
Please fix our airport security. Implement behavioral profiling. Eliminate the "thousands standing around." Eliminate the blanket accusation that the American people are the problem in this matter. Remove the Federal Government from the issue entirely, and present airline security as the duty of the private carrier. Give me a choice as a consumer, if I want to go on Airline A and get sexually assaulted by a sub-$10/hr goon, or Airline B that implements behavioral profiling.
Please, Mr. Flake: Support and co-sponsor Dr. Paul's American Traveler Dignity Act.
Another totalitarian masking as a conservative, meet Emmett Tyrrell.
http://townhall.com/columnists/EmmettTyrrell/2010/11/18/pat_me,_pat_me/page/1
Hello Emmett, meet the internet. Have a look around and you will find many other sites pissed off about this too.
Seriously WTF? A soothing pat down is he trying to be funny or does he actually think that? What if the patter-downer looks like Mr. T? Gonna be happy about getting patted down then? How about when Mr. T grabs your junk?
<Mr T's voice> I PITY THE FOOL THAT OPS OUT!</Mr T's voice>
???
What does that mean?
You do realize there are different ways to profile, and, that no "profile" has to remain static?
The Israelis seem to have it right. They don't have airplanes falling out of the sky every day.
This. Damned statists in conservative clothing.
Ron Paul in the House on this issue:
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibrary/clip.php?appid=599164944
They probably meant to deny the word "altar" instead of "alter".
Separation of church and state, donchaknow.
profiling carrys the seeds for fail
wouldn't want to derail the win we have going on now would we?
I wrote to my rep (Frank Wolf) using their web-form thingummy.
I was trying to use the word "alternative" in my message, and every time I wrote it, a dialog popped up telling me that, due to House regulations, I could not use the word "alter" in my message, and it edited it to spell it "al_ter".
So a couple things:
- What sort of idiotic program thinks that "alternative" and "alter" are equivalent?
- What sort of idiotic policy prohibits the use of the word "alter" in a message to a congressman? Is it some sort of poor-man's SQL-injection filter? I didn't use the words "insert", "drop", or "update" in my message; perhaps I should have, to see if they were on the Proscribed Words list, too.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgs.xkcd.com%2Fcomics%2Fexploits_of_a_mom.png&hash=c1de34c752be1acb143f73a97fb1836c38a1d464)
Stopping the threat is the goal. Modern JHPs do that better than frangible. No agency that I know of uses frangible ammo on aircraft.
These people get to look at me naked?
As nearly 2 million holiday travelers pack Bay Area airports starting Friday, local prosecutors have a warning for overzealous security agents performing the new federal pat-down: touch passengers the wrong way, and we'll throw you in jail
I basically consider them on par with a bouncer at a bar, or mall security. I'm certainly not going to let either of those types frisk me.
Wait... when did San Fran suddenly get a brain cell?
Wait... when did San Fran suddenly get a brain cell?
They can bar you from entry.
But the argument against "Don't touch my junk" guy is that he wanted to leave after already initiating the screening procedure and declining to allow further (bodily) inspection.
If TSA agents are not sworn, they cannot arrest you.
If you're not under arrest, then you're free to go.
Via that logic, TSA agents cannot compel you to allow them to touch you... if they aren't sworn LEO.
the tsa guys call real cops they arrest you i hate to admit that the 9th circuits opinion on this makes sense but in the tradition of blind pigs and acorns they got this one right
the tsa guys call real cops they arrest you i hate to admit that the 9th circuits opinion on this makes sense but in the tradition of blind pigs and acorns they got this one right
Nekkid pics is not the same thing as nekkid.
And we're back to my crusade against people taking naked baby pictures. =)
If there will be an understanding that there is only that much people are willing to pay in time lost, dignity lost, money lost - over the practically non-existent, statistically, terrorist threat, then the madness will end.
Either the passenger is gay and doesn't like being touched by a straight, or the TSA agent is gay and perceived as being unprofessional with the pat-downs.
Cars, trains, boats, those still work, right?Yes, they do. However, they often aren't practical.
Yes, they do. However, they often aren't practical.Yes, but doing inconvenient things to make a point is the nature of a boycott.
And even so, so what? The protections in the constitution are not there as the .gov deems them, nor are they conditional on us choosing to give them up in exchange to do something.
All your TSA thread belong to us*expletive deleted*it, you did that while I was reading one of the original threads and I advanced to the next page and got really confused.
One made the right choice. Time to start pressuring the rest to do the same.
I wonder what would happen if one were to pop some Viagra, and audibly and visibly be aroused by a pat-down?hilarity would ensue. :laugh: even better is just go ahead and strip. bonus points for each hundred pounds past the first 2. :angel: hey what happened to the actor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Que_Sera_Sera_%28House%29) on the ep. of house where they had to cut a hole in his apartment wall to get him to the hospital? ??? :angel:
When I become Emporer of the US, I will disban the TSA.
Perhaps the grand plan is to end up, after the private carriers are insolvent, with one national state airline. Then we could be like most of the rest of the world. Obama would be happy.Obama? happy? there isn't enough coke in the world. =|
I wonder what would happen if one were to pop some Viagra, and audibly and visibly be aroused by a pat-down?
do you have a case where tsa saved images outside their training mode as outlined in the specs you so kindly provided?
I wonder what would happen if one were to pop some Viagra, and audibly and visibly be aroused by a pat-down?
If it can be saved in training mode, it can be saved when not in training mode. TSA has to go.
so thats a no then?
CSD, I don't know how many times I have to tell you this...
The gizmodo pics of the Florida courthouse are using older tech. However that tech is identical to what the TSA uses in some places, as well as the newer higher resolution machines. Both devices have an SOP that dictates that no pics are to be saved.
But, these pics were obviously saved.
Ignore the quality of the images.
The fact that Gizmodo was able to obtain them at all is the concern.
They shouldn't exist in the first place.
but wait?!! isn't that the case thats being touted as an example? isn't it the "same machine! zomg!" we've established that marshalls in a courthouse does not equal tsa, and also seen that those images resemble "nekkid pics" only in the wild imaginings of alex jones. so if the machine isn't the same the agency isn't the same and the pics ain't showing squat why are they being used by alex et al as examples of the apocalypse?
You will un-ban them? ??? :PSilence, minion!
Go to RedState.com today (Friday , 19th) and read how the TSA harrased returning troops from Iraq in Indianapolis.
Go to RedState.com today (Friday , 19th) and read how the TSA harrased returning troops from Iraq in Indianapolis.
Crux of the story: The whole time, two pass through a metal detector and a lecture, my M249 is on a three point sling across my chest. Good thing they stopped the pens.
If this story is true, the only explanation is that the apocalypse is upon us.
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/11/18/another-tsa-outrage/
Is there a "The Stupid, it burns." smiley?
Question for the folks returning from combat zones.. at any point did the TSA check the weapon you were carrying to make sure it was unloaded? Rack the slide, pull the charging handle, and etc to make sure you weren't sneaking one in the chamber?
I never flew commercial in the army and it was all pre-9/11 anyway, just various charters with no security other than being told to pull the bolt out of the M16's and put it in my cargo pocket.
Question for the folks returning from combat zones.. at any point did the TSA check the weapon you were carrying to make sure it was unloaded? Rack the slide, pull the charging handle, and etc to make sure you weren't sneaking one in the chamber?
I never flew commercial in the army and it was all pre-9/11 anyway, just various charters with no security other than being told to pull the bolt out of the M16's and put it in my cargo pocket.
this is what you are afraid of folks seeing?
got a source for those?
there have been some circulated that were "funny"
got a source for those?
there have been some circulated that were "funny"
I'm fairly certain the last one is not genuine.
In order:
nytimes.com
TSA
science.howstuffworks.com
screenshot of TSA demo.
moblog.whmsoft.net (kinda sketchy I know, but it matches the rest)
Dude at Fox that canceled Firefly.
This is one of the fake ones. (http://musicians4freedom.com/2010/02/exposed-naked-body-scanner-images-of-film-star-printed-circulated-by-airport-staff/) I deliberatly left them out. (link prolly NSFW)
read that pdf specially the part about privacy and how the machines address it and the difference between training mode and operational.
then see if you can find pics of one actually in operation besides the ones i've already posted since obviously they don't count. also feel free to show me where the tsa has saved sent the images. not the us marshalls but the tsa
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Folegvolk.net%2Fgallery%2Fd%2F22879-3%2Ftsa0906.jpg&hash=23e306a4b7a4485307c139d16135045c5c9fd9be)
I'm fairly certain the last one is not genuine.
[Forwarded from a friend of mine. "bravebuddies" is a support group for parents of children with juvenile diabetes. Interesting that French security is just as intrusive as TSA.]
So, my advice is that you talk to your child, maybe practice the pat down so they know what it will feel like.
When you count on terror to justify tyranny, you might just get more than you bargained for. Arrogance blinds people.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Folegvolk.net%2Fgallery%2Fd%2F22879-3%2Ftsa0906.jpg&hash=23e306a4b7a4485307c139d16135045c5c9fd9be)
Well, let's cavity-search everybody then. Don't want someone who has [gasp] met with a terrorist to go un-cavity-searched.
Under this definition, I would also have a 'terrorist' link. Given how I once met with a 'former' FATAH fighter.
So, my advice is that you talk to your child, maybe practice the pat down so they know what it will feel like. Explain that they might want to wipe their hands with a tissue and why. Jordan has never been allowed to just walk through the detector or be wanded... they have always pat searched her. Be ready to stand your ground should security want to force you to leave your child unattended, but explain to your child that while you won't leave the area, you won't be able to stay right with them. Prepare them for the chance that you are the one that is being selected for special screening and make sure they wait somewhere where they can see you. If you're going to major tourist destinations expect tight security screening there as well (the vatican for example). Btw, we never had any questions about all our supplies that went through the x-ray machines.
Helping disarm commandos is not an act of terrorism. Not by a long stretch. But fine. You win. There are some U.S. Marines who can commit various acts that are dangerous and wrong. The average Marine is still not statistically likely to be a terrorist.
Hell, the average person is not statistically likely to be a terrorist.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clusterflock.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F02%2F41g9wa5nrdl_aa280_.jpg&hash=ee084d022106797ec8a1dba1c9e8c8c8ed0d97b3)
heck i'm irish i've got terrorist kin
Or Freedom Fighters, depending on how you look at it =D
Saorsa!
how would you profileYour second link doesn't work.
this guy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Finton
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...w=1280&bih=596
Your second link doesn't work.
According to charges against him, on February 3, 1999, Finton indicated to a woman in Olney, Illinois, that he had "a firearm or other dangerous weapon”, took $323 and eight cartons of cigarettes “by the use of force,” and “caused great bodily harm” to the woman “in that he struck (her) in the face and pushed her into a desk.”[3] Finton was convicted of aggravated assault and aggravated robbery and spent 1999–2005 in prisonall i have to say is, unarmed victims are never a good thing. :angel:
do i need to explain why we would be hard pressed to try israeli style here?
I have no idea why people are so obsessed wit the Israeli system, anyway.
israeli frozen dog turds
oh i understand profiling i'm trying to point out why it carries the seeds for fail. do i need to explain why we would be hard pressed to try israeli style here?
At the very least screeners should be trained in it, and not afraid to pull folks from the line based on them fitting a profile.The average TSA salary is $10.50 to $15 an hour. Do you think you can get trained professionals for that?
i could sell frozen dog turds in some circles if i marketed them as israeli frozen dog turdsOn a stick?
The average TSA salary is $10.50 to $15 an hour. Do you think you can get trained professionals for that?
And at that pay grade they get to feel my balls? Awesome!
I refuse to believe that our only choices are Checkpoint Charlie at the gate, or the Israili system.
There's a place for good Behavioral Profiling in a good American security setup. At the very[/i] least screeners should be trained in it, and not afraid to pull folks from the line based on them fitting a profile.
That's not to say ONLY look at people that fit a profile, but be at least aware that a profile exists.
We should be able to adapt the parts of other countries systems that work and discard those that don't, or wouldn't, work for us.
For example, I recently flew through Amsterdam. The security checkpoints there are at the gates. each gate has an X-ray, magnetometer, and some screeners. That means any one line NEVER has more then 1 flights worth of people, and often less. (they open the gate about 1.5 hrs before boarding starts.) Security is the same as here (They have to conform to TSA standards on flights into the states) but total wait time is less then 15 min in line. And the line's are significantly less inviting targets.
We should be looking at things that work, and not concentrating on stupid, and invasive, crap that doesn't.
>And at that pay grade they get to feel my balls? Awesome!<
Which is the main reason I have never applied for a TSA position: there simply isn't enough money available to get me to feel Jamis' balls...
how many flights leaving amsterdam? how many for the states? 1 1/2 before a flight? we have 2 flights leaving in that time from gates at busy terminals
Before you start, yes I know it'll be expensive. If we're too cheap as a country to swing actual security, scrap the whole thing and let me bring my Sig and a frakking diet coke on board.
So... why, exactly, can America not just revert to the situation up to 2008? Why are metal detectors and explosive sniffers not enough?
So... why, exactly, can America not just revert to the situation up to 2008? Why are metal detectors and explosive sniffers not enough?
So... why, exactly, can America not just revert to the situation up to 2008? Why are metal detectors and explosive sniffers not enough?
Interesting tangent to this on policies: When was the last time any of you that fly was asked to turn your laptop on by the TSA agent or pull the battery? For the first couple of years I had to do this all the time prior to the laptop going through the x-ray. For the last 6-7 years, I've never been asked to. It's not like that potential threat went away.
This is why current policies are so maddening -- it's always a reaction to whatever threat just happened. Laptop bombs are apparently passe so we don't go through all those procedures anymore.
I think the security measures in place before 9/11 were fine.
Perhaps the real issue is that no politician or bureaucrat can dare to utter the above words. They have to DO SOMETHING! to ensure against any future 9-11s.
I think the security measures in place before 9/11 were fine.
That's a big part of the problem - they need a program they can put on the news to demonstrate action.
Riddle me this: how do open societies beat tribalist, religionist societies and stay open and free unless they use the strengths that such societies have?
1. Do what is already being done. Engage their silly paramilitaries with military force. Establish not merely victories - establish incredibly lopsided, and legendary victories. People learn. They will give up before America does. Happily a platoon of United States Marines or even one of America's lesser allies can defeat battalions of terrorists.
2. Ignore their crap. Assuming they are being engaged militarily, a 'society' like Afghanistan cannot meaningfully threaten the United States. THey can pull off isolated - and sometimes very menacing - attacks against America (which is something that cannot be fully prevented, EVER), but in the civilization contest, they have already lost.
This.
The problem is that by the time you have dudes so hard they can fight their way into the cockpit with nothing but flimsy boxcutters, you're not going to stop them by checking them from weapons. Of course, you're going to easily stop a random idiot who gets up in the morning and decides he wants to hijack Flight 5665, but a pre-9/11 security system would have already done so.
So how come we have not suffered such attacks? Luck or good intelligence/operations?
stay safe.
When it comes to bringing items through checkpoints, we've seen just about everything. Traveling with food or gifts is an even bigger challenge. Everyone has favorite foods from home that they want to bring to holiday dinners, or items from their destination that they want to bring back home.
Not sure about what you can and can't bring through the checkpoint? Don't even think about flying. You'd best drive instead.
The apparent mindset of those who *would* become a terrorist is one of "the US killed a Muslim, I must avenge my brother". This is a process that breeds as many as it kills.And those guys won't change unless they see the terrorist Muslims being killed as scumbags, IMO.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112205514.html?hpid=topnews
and the survey says....
Nearly two-thirds of Americans support the new full-body security-screening machines at the country's airports, as most say they put higher priority on combating terrorism than protecting personal privacy, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112205514.html?hpid=topnews
and the survey says....
Nearly two-thirds of Americans support the new full-body security-screening machines at the country's airports, as most say they put higher priority on combating terrorism than protecting personal privacy, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.
The whole point of the terrorist attacks on 9/11 was to change a free, prosperous country into something worse. I have to fly on orders next month, and I'm not going through a scanner. As I contemplate the thought of standing there in ACU's and letting my government feel my groin to make sure I don't have a bomb, I have to wonder if they didn't succeed beyond their wildest dreams.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112205514.html?hpid=topnews
and the survey says....
Nearly two-thirds of Americans support the new full-body security-screening machines at the country's airports, as most say they put higher priority on combating terrorism than protecting personal privacy, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.
And so this is how freedom dies - with applause ;/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112205514.html?hpid=topnews[tinfoil] Oh wonnerful ......
and the survey says....
Nearly two-thirds of Americans support the new full-body security-screening machines at the country's airports, as most say they put higher priority on combating terrorism than protecting personal privacy, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.
Every time. =(Could have at least given us a nice circus
and the survey says....
Nearly two-thirds of Americans support the new full-body security-screening machines at the country's airports, as most say they put higher priority on combating terrorism than protecting personal privacy, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.
Only a small percentage of Americans fly frequently (under 10 per cent). It's certainly understandable most wouldn't be that troubled by what's going on.
Of course, the ones who fly most frequently also bear the most risk of getting blown up, and somehow are still not impressed with TSA Kabuki.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112205514.html?hpid=topnews
and the survey says....
Nearly two-thirds of Americans are also as dumb as a box of rocks.
the San Diego Harbor Police arrested an area resident for refusal to complete the screening/security process yesterday...
The incident was confirmed by Harbor Police Sergeant Rakos who said Wolanyk was arrested on two misdemeanors, “failing to complete the security process; violation code 7.01 and illegally recording the San Diego Airport Authority (they confiscated his iPhone); violation number 7.14 (a).”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112205514.html?hpid=topnews
and the survey says....
Nearly two-thirds of Americans support the new full-body security-screening machines at the country's airports, as most say they put higher priority on combating terrorism than protecting personal privacy, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.
Has anyone else observed that these supposed security procedures seem less designed to find explosives and weapons, and more designed to find cash, jewelry, drugs, etc ... ???
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112205514.html?hpid=topnews
and the survey says....
Nearly two-thirds of Americans support the new full-body security-screening machines at the country's airports, as most say they put higher priority on combating terrorism than protecting personal privacy, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.
And the beat goes on ...
http://www.examiner.com/county-political-buzz-in-san-diego/tsa-airport-screeners-gone-wild-san-diego-again
...
Apparently there is a local ordinance that forbids recording of airport authority personnel.
Trivia note: Wolanyk successfully sued San Diego after he was arrested for openly carrying an unloaded firearm (which is not a crime in California). He had the same legal representation (Jason Davis) as he does in this case. Should be fun to watch the proceedings.
I'm buying a kilt.
I'm taking skivvies and trousers in my carry-on but wearing a kilt traditional style for going through security.
I plan on singing "Danny Boy" as the search begins and upping my register as the search nears the nads.
There's no regulation about singing, loudly. If they try to shut me up I'm going all 1st Amendment on them.
I said on another forum that we should call these 2/3rd of "Americans" Americans In Name Only. AINO.
These people are going to be the ones that f*** it up (again) on Nov 6 2012 by electing either Obama or a RINO to the White House. They are a prime threat to our liberty (what's left of it, anyway).
Transportation Security Administration chief John Pistole said on Monday that he disregarded internal advice to the contrary and decided not tell the public in advance about aggressive new screening and pat-down procedures for airline passengers, fearing terrorists could try to exploit the information.
The DHS should never have been born. One more great Bush accomplishment. Let's not rehab him too quickly, folks.
To be fair, the Republican-controlled Congress (including the resident Democrats) fell all over thyemselves approving and funding it. It ain't ALL on W.
To be fair, the Republican-controlled Congress (including the resident Democrats) fell all over thyemselves approving and funding it. It ain't ALL on W.
"We can't professionalize unless we federalize." ~~ Tom Daschle.
I knew when I heard that mind-numbing little bromide that we were going to get another government-imposed top-down bureaucracy and it would scr*w up our lives ..... [barf]
I don't particularly blame Shrubby, but OTOH he did nothing to dissuade anyone from imposing it on us. =(
Oh, agreed completely. He COULD have stopped it, but thought it was a wunnerful idear. :mad:
As did much of the Republican Hallelujah Choir. Back then, Dubya could do no wrong, despite all the warnings that you didn't want to leave those wonderful toys for the next Dem to get in office...
I'm buying a kilt.
I'm taking skivvies and trousers in my carry-on but wearing a kilt traditional style for going through security.
I plan on singing "Danny Boy" as the search begins and upping my register as the search nears the nads.
There's no regulation about singing, loudly. If they try to shut me up I'm going all 1st Amendment on them.
Matt... what's your waist size.
I'll loan you one of my kilts, if you promise to get video!
Buy a high mpg car and get used to driving. It's coming to trains, buses, and subways. And, yeah, try to avoid the roadblocks.
This--I, and many others I am sure, cannot afford not to fly. I don't get PTO so it is literally cheaper for me to fly to, my friend's place in VT for the weekend than spend two days driving back and forth.
Yeah, the kilt thing crossed my mind, too - but I was thinking more of the feileadh mòr (great wrap) and maybe no leine (shirt). My belt would be all that is holding that on. Would all that wool wrapped around you count as a "coat" or "jacket" ? :lol:
Really though, my biggest personal issue with the new scanner/grope policy is that they apparently require you to surrender all of your personal belongings. When traveling, I always carry an extra stash of significant cash and an extra credit card somewhere deeply concealed, like in a t-shirt pocket under a regular long sleeve button/snap shirt, just in case my wallet gets stolen hundreds or thousands of miles from home. The TSA damn sure aren't going to take that from me :mad: >:D
I'm sorry, I guess you won't have a problem when some unscrupulous TSA agent puts your wife's, your kid's or your naked pictures on the internet. We just need to take it and turn the other cheek, but that cheek is in your pants.
Perhaps the solution is merely to grow an extremely large and deflated gut
Remember that restaurant scene from When Harry Met Sally?
A female friend of mine has threatened to reenact it when she gets the pat down.
Just job security...
Why can't we have the Israeli's come over and show us how to do this? All we're doing is taking reactive measures: a guy tries to light his shoe, we require passengers to take off shoes; somebody gets a potentially explosive liquid on board, we restrict liquids; some guy puts an explosive in his underwear, we require searches of private parts.
To the best of my knowledge, the Israeli's do none of this to the average air traveller.
Can I get a Tee shirt that says, "Can I get a happy ending with my pat down?"
Israel does a far better job insofar as screening individuals. They have, however, far fewer airflights to deal with than our country.
If we could make their system work here, great. It would require expanding the TSA maybe 200 fold...and getting to the airport six hours ahead of the flight....maybe.
Folks on gizmodo are reporting that the backscatter machines are shut down in many airports:
http://gizmodo.com/comment/33032822
Did the TSA just blink in the face of Opt-Out Day?
MicroBalrog, that's what I've read and heard from probably hundreds of sources since the 9/11 attacks. Would you mind detailing what is wrong with what I posted?
Folks on gizmodo are reporting that the backscatter machines are shut down in many airports:
http://gizmodo.com/comment/33032822
Did the TSA just blink in the face of Opt-Out Day?
What is our ratio of flights compared to Israel's, and what is the ratio of our number of screening agents compared to theirs? It sounds like you're throwing out a blanket "200 fold" when we don't know the numbers. We have, what, 65,000 TSA agents now? How many have the Israeli's?
Obviously there's no solution to this yet. But I don't believe simply circumventing the system is going to make it better. You will never get enough people to stop flying to make a difference IMO. But a small but determined majority, raising as much hell as possible whenever they are forced to endure this unconstitutional expansion of powers, might make a difference. I'm basically just waiting for a chance to fly so I can do some "direct action."
Don't know how many of you have noticed the TV coverage of the TSA today. What really has drawn my attention is the broadcasting of actual TSA goons conducting actual nekkid-picture scans and body-gropes.
Yes, the TV has shown the actual search procedures. A few of them are not even putting the shadow circle around te hands as they do breasts and crotches, or over the juicy bits as they show the actual nekkid-picture scan screens.
I heard the figures on a radio report but I don't recall them at this point. The real point of my post was not scientific accuracy but simply to point out that Israel is a small country and their air traffic is much less than ours.
I despise what's happening with air security and have heard many media reports that make me want to cringe. I'm not certain I have any great solutions for what's going on; I simply think we're putting on "security theater" and that if/when the terrorists want to hit us again they'll find a "work-around" to get by the security or simply attack in a different way
Which brings us to how REAL security works.
Dozens of people like this, training, organizing these acts... dozens of people needed to recruit them.... dozens of people helping in the logistical aspects.. this is where such an operation would rise or fall.
Syphilis, lice, gonorrhea, ringworm, chlamydia, staph, strep, noro and papilloma viruses all are part of the possible fringe benefits when airline passengers next go through a full hands-on pat-down by agents of the federal government's Transportation Security Administration, according to doctors.
WND reported two days ago on alarmed passengers who noted that TSA agents doing the pat-downs that have been described by critics as molestation since they include touching private body parts were not changing gloves between passengers. In fact, some apparently were patting down dozens of passengers or more wearing the same gloves.
But neither the TSA nor federal agencies such as the Centers for Disease Control was willing to comment on the possibilities that infections and other loathsome afflictions could be passed from passenger to passenger.
point 1 was well taken its always bad when you start with wnd is newmax in concurrence? how about mr jones?
the courts have ruled . till someone figures a way to change that ....?
And for something more obscure:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saper.etel.ru%2Fmines-3%2Fptpm-2.jpg&hash=e8fc933ec1a85e307907252ab48b918bfb7853eb)
We have figured out a way to change that. Get enough people riled up and pissed off, then turn that pissed on congress (or Executive branch) untill they tell TSA to quit. (or disband it) If that fails, fire the legislators (or executive) and repeat with the new hires.
This is Phase I.
Welcome to plan.
Remember: The first rule of the Revolution is we don't talk about the Revolution. Also the new guy brings the beer.
Get enough people riled up and pissed off,;/
phase one is not working you had one guy at regan yesterday
where was there a stronger showing?
The courts are wrong. Wearing a black robe doesn't make one right every time.
thinking they are wrong generates lil traction unless you can get another ruling supreme court is where you gotta go and i wouldn't get your hopes up there
Make up your own mind. What terrifies you the most. Terrorists, who in all likelihood you will never encounter in your lifetime, or the TSA that you will encounter every time you fly and soon, according to Pistole, every time you take a train, a subway, or drive in a car or truck?
;/
Because we all have time to drop our holiday plans and protest. Emails to our elected politicans are a better and more effective tactic.
all? no
more than one? yea
and where was the groundswell of optouts?
travel was a breeze for my family
me desperate?! you see how strong the protest was at regan/national yesterday? theres is an element of desperation here but ....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/24/AR2010112406989.html?hpid%3Dnewswell&sub=AR
So... what exactly is the point of this post?
Are you arguing that we should change our minds just because we're in the minority? (assuming we are, that is).
close i'm saying that most folks are much more activist on the internet than in real life. and heck we're in the use it or lose it time of the year for fed employees and annual leave so if there is gonna be a groundswell now's the time.
Interesting how as Big Gov gets less transparent We the People increasingly become an open book...
Awful hard to opt out if you don't have a flight planned for that day.
It labels any person who “interferes” with TSA airport security screening procedure protocol and operations by actively objecting to the established screening process, “including but not limited to the anticipated national opt-out day” as a “domestic extremist.” The label is then broadened to include “any person, group or alternative media source” that actively objects to, causes others to object to, supports and/or elicits support for anyone who engages in such travel disruptions at U.S. airports in response to the enhanced security procedures.
For individuals who engaged in such activity at screening points, it instructs TSA operations to obtain the identities of those individuals and other applicable information and submit the same electronically to the Homeland Environment Threat Analysis Division, the Extremism and Radicalization branch of the Office of Intelligence & Analysis (IA) division of the Department of Homeland Security.
edit - On people with things like prosthetic breasts and whatnot, couldn't there be grounds for some sort of HIPAA violations?
CSD: I've read several reports that SeaTac, DFW, Dulles, LAX, PHX and POR (just people I've either talked to or read about online) had their nekkid scanners roped off for Wednesday and they weren't using them at all.
Impossible to opt-out if there's no demand to be opted-in.
The TSA deliberately took the machines offline so that the protest was non-existent.
Americans may be blase' now; they won't be when the surveillance spreads to trains, boats, buses, subways, and random auto-stops.
Horror stories abound of legal gun owning citizens being detained and questioned for simply bringing their firearm onboard a boat.
Land of the Free, Home of the Brave
;/
Are you aware of the amount of water that is controlled by the Corps of Engineers? There are even some places where the land up to the water line is state park and carry/possession of firearms is legal, but if you walk out on a dock or otherwise cross the line you are committing a federal felony.
Americans may be blase' now; they won't be when the surveillance spreads to trains, boats, buses, subways, and random auto-stops.
Government should not be a form of colonoscopy.
More and more, colonoscopy seems to be an adequate name for our form of government.
rubber gloves and whiskey? ???Some might call that a recipe for a good date.
rubber gloves and whiskey? ???
Some might call that a recipe for a good date.
rubber gloves and whiskey? ???
And other assorted goodies, printed in metallic ink for easy viewing by infringers.
http://cargocollective.com/4thamendment#802062/Perverts-Printed-Underclothes
no fat guy sizes
Americans may be blase' now; they won't be when the surveillance spreads to trains, boats, buses, subways, and random auto-stops.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Folegvolk.net%2Fgallery%2Fd%2F38912-2%2Ftsa_victim_2800.jpg&hash=6916c12f74444183a449c7338cb42695db21473d) (https://www.lifelibertyetc.com/Products/TShirts/TSA-Checkpoint-TShirt)
Doubt that. DUI checkpoints have conditioned people to accept random checkpoints.
We who see the grave threat to liberty are in the minority. This anger over the scanners and TSA employees copping feels? It'll soon be forgotten, I think.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Folegvolk.net%2Fgallery%2Fd%2F38912-2%2Ftsa_victim_2800.jpg&hash=6916c12f74444183a449c7338cb42695db21473d) (https://www.lifelibertyetc.com/Products/TShirts/TSA-Checkpoint-TShirt)
My wife just called to relay her wonderful experience with the fine folks at the TSA. Apparently, while going through the nude-o-scope, the underwire on her bra looked threatening. So she had the pleasure of a government employee's hands getting intimately acquainted with her breasts, before she was deemed 'not a terrorist.' ;/ I'm thinking since she wears a DD, she's probably going to get felt up on a fairly regular basis now, no doubt because her bra could kill us all. :facepalm:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/alleged_wannabe_terrorist_caught_in_sting_feared_an_fbi_trap.php
tsa? nothin
just another hard to profile home grown terrorist
I'm assuming they had a female TSA employee cop the feel. Did she (the TSA employee) look butch?
Female TSA agent, and yes, a little butch. =D
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001245997338&sk=wall#!/profile.php?id=100001245997338&v=infoI'll try again anyways. I'm dense like that.
In the name of Allah oft forgivig most merciful.IM just a yung brotha from the wrong side of the tracks who embraced Islam. Asalaamualaykum to the muslim ummah I love yall but im worried, were are we gonna be ten years from now idk only Allah does and HE knows best. We gotta rise up inshallah and continue the establishment of Islam on the earth with the help and guidence of Allah we can ya muslimeen!!! rise up ! we are the khalifas of the world. Were are the Lions of this ummah?!!
In the name of Allah oft forgivig most merciful.IM just a yung brotha from the wrong side of the tracks who embraced Islam. Asalaamualaykum to the muslim ummah I love yall but im worried, were are we gonna be ten years from now idk only Allah does and HE knows best. We gotta rise up inshallah and continue the establishment of Islam on the earth with the help and guidence of Allah we can ya muslimeen!!! rise up ! we are the khalifas of the world. Were are the Lions of this ummah?!!
You expect me to be scared of a guy so stupid he can't spell the title of his own God?
That's 8 spelling errors, not counting his creative approach to capital letters, slang, and commas.
MicrospellingzionistBalrog
Good thing to know they are busting their butts protecting us from "terrorists".
http://www.examiner.com/dupage-county-conservative-in-chicago/second-playboy-model-outraged-by-tsa-as-many-weeks
I wish it was legal for me to feel up playboy models. I see a career change in my future!
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AMBASSADOR_PAT_DOWN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-12-09-14-47-24
TSA singles out and pats down the Indian Ambassador, twice. India isn't happy.
I have trouble with Swedes, Finns and Norwegians. All those blondes look alike to me.
I have trouble with Swedes, Finns and Norwegians. All those blondes look alike to me.
I have trouble with Swedes, Finns and Norwegians. All those blondes look alike to me.
You need the blasting caps, though. Those could be smuggledup tight and out of sightas part of nearly any electronic device.