California: Stop Sign Cameras Installed on Canyon Roads

[Desertdog]

Yesterday it was red light cameras.  Today it is stop sign cameras.  Will tomorrow bring us speed enforcement cameras as mentioned in the story.

California: Stop Sign Cameras Installed on Canyon Roads
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/18/1846.asp

A California park agency will ticket motorists with stop sign cameras July 9. Speed cameras to follow.

The Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority (MRCA) has installed the first-ever automated camera in the US designed to ticket drivers who make "boulevard stops" or slow to a crawl at a stop sign without fully ceasing forward motion. The little-known agency will begin issuing $100 fines next Monday, July 9, at Franklin Canyon in the heart of Los Angeles, located off of Mulholland Drive and at the top of Topanga.

The stop sign devices are based on red light camera platforms, but they differ greatly in use. The more familiar stoplight cameras typically photograph a vehicle entering an intersection if a signal light changes to red between 0.1 and 0.3 seconds after the car crosses a stop bar line (view recent report). With the new stop sign cameras, a machine will make calculations to determine whether a vehicle did not stop for a long enough period and deserves a fine.

The cameras are being installed as a prelude to the agency's expected installation of speed cameras on popular canyon roads, as first reported by TheNewspaper in April. Australian camera vendor Redflex will operate every aspect of the program in return for a $20 cut from every ticket the company is able to issue (view contract). California law explicitly prohibits both speed cameras and per-ticket photo enforcement contract provisions, but the MRCA believes the law does not apply to them.

"Our Park Rangers are California peace officers and will always have traffic enforcement as part of their duty," MRCA Director of Public Affairs Dash Stolarz said in a June statement.

In 2, the California legislature banned photo radar with a statute clarifying that although it authorized the use of photo ticketing at traffic signals, the legislature, "does not authorize the use of photo radar for speed enforcement purposes by any jurisdiction." (CVC 21455.6) Another provision specifies that, "A contract between a governmental agency and a manufacturer or supplier of automated enforcement equipment may not include provision for the payment or compensation to the manufacturer or supplier based on the number of citations generated." (CVC 21455.5)

[Tallpine]

Where will they get the electricity to run all those cameras ...?   

I wish the USA would stop selling power to CA 

[Paddy]

So what?  A stop is a stop is a stop.  Not a 'California stop' (Slight Tap On Pedal.) Besides, the fines from the scofflaw will help offset the expenses we have to pay on account of the illegals the Bush Admin won't do anything about. 

[Manedwolf]

And when the lowest-bidder-made camera mistakenly tags you even though you'd stopped, you won't mind paying the mistaken fine? Over and over and over and over?

There's a whole site of UK photos of speed cams that have been smashed and burnt, hundreds of them, because people are sick of the erroneous ticketing.

[Jamisjockey]

So what?  A stop is a stop is a stop.  Not a 'California stop' (Slight Tap On Pedal.) Besides, the fines from the scofflaw will help offset the expenses we have to pay on account of the illegals the Bush Admin won't do anything about. 

So you loan your car to your wife/gf/friend/buddy/neighbor/crack dealer.  They speed/blow stop light.  Ticket gets mailed to you. 

[MechAg94]

When law enforcement ceases to be for public safety and becomes a fund raising tool, it ceases to be law enforcement. 

[ilbob]

When law enforcement ceases to be for public safety and becomes a fund raising tool, it ceases to be law enforcement. 

Yep.

[Typhoon]

When law enforcement ceases to be for public safety and becomes a fund raising tool, it ceases to be law enforcement.

I can't argue with that, but the problem of dingbat drivers screaming through the canyons is real.  These canyon roads go through residential areas, but they offer an alternative route between the San Fernando Valley and the Westside of Los Angeles (rather than the 405 freeway - the worst in the nation).  At rush hour these roads may be bumper to bumper, but at off hours they can be quite treacherous.  I've seen more than a few terrible accidents.     

[Jamisjockey]

When law enforcement ceases to be for public safety and becomes a fund raising tool, it ceases to be law enforcement. 

How so.  The law is in place.  Break the law face the consequences.
However, without verifying driver identity, they are instead ticketing the vehicle.  This is a slippery slope, by making us responsible for property not in our control. 

[MechAg94]

Simple, if your first priority is raising money, your first priority is not law enforcement.  If something (anything) generates money for the bureauacracy, any other concern eventually becomes 2nd priority. 

Honestly, stop sign cameras?  I could understand ticketing people blowing through stop signs, but slow rolling is not always particularly dangerous.  Mild speed bumps would do the same thing and cost little.  A little officer presence would do it also.  They just like this because they don't have to pay for the cameras. 

This has come up down here because Houston is putting in red light cameras despite the fact that adjust yellow light times and such does the same thing for public safety. 

[Thor]

My step brother was killed at an intersection on Topanga Canyon Valley Rd (or something like that) He was on a motorcycle and hit by a car. When it was all said and done, the car driver survived, so, it was their word against my step brother (who was in a coma and ultimately allowed to die). I could see where MAYBE this could have helped. However, I'm still generally against these camera enforcement things because they don't always identify the driver, just the owner. Minneapolis got their red light cameras turned off for that very reason.

[kldimond]

I have to add here that anyone who doesn't see a hazard in a "Big Brother" style of society isn't really an American.

And this is a step that direction.

[ilbob]

I have to add here that anyone who doesn't see a hazard in a "Big Brother" style of society isn't really an American.

And this is a step that direction.

Would you prefer they put a cop on every corner or a camera?

I am less concerned about cameras then having a whole new series of cops being hired. We already have more than enough enforcers.

I wonder if your real concern is that you will now face the potential for a real consequence for breaking the law that you didn't before.

Having said that, I also suspect all they really care about is the potential for extra revenue.

[Paddy]

I have to add here that anyone who doesn't see a hazard in a "Big Brother" style of society isn't really an American.

And this is a step that direction.

I'd be a lot more concerned about the abuses of the Bush Admin under PA I & II.

[HankB]

There's a whole site of UK photos of speed cams that have been smashed and burnt, hundreds of them, because people are sick of the erroneous ticketing.

Heartwarming . . . and appropriate.

[Nick1911]

There's a whole site of UK photos of speed cams that have been smashed and burnt, hundreds of them, because people are sick of the erroneous ticketing.

I have to see this... Link?

[Manedwolf]

There's a whole site of UK photos of speed cams that have been smashed and burnt, hundreds of them, because people are sick of the erroneous ticketing.

I have to see this... Link?

http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm

Probably the best of them...

[Jamisjockey]

The sticker is priceless!

[Paddy]

Damn!  There is some hope for the British after all. 

[Desertdog]

However, I'm still generally against these camera enforcement things because they don't always identify the driver, just the owner. Minneapolis got their red light cameras turned off for that very reason.

There should be a lot of court fights if Mr. A is out if town, and can prove it, or the car is in his name only and Miss X  is clearly shown driving it.

Sounds to me like this could be a windfall for lawyers.

[bunni]

I have to add here that anyone who doesn't see a hazard in a "Big Brother" style of society isn't really an American.
And this is a step that direction.

Would you prefer they put a cop on every corner or a camera?

I don't see a difference, except of course cameras record 24/7.

I hope they don't make it east to the Azusa Canyon highway - my drive to the Burro Canyon rifle range would be much less interesting.

[MechAg94]

You don't need a whole slew of new LEO's, just one or two rotating around to different areas.