Author Topic: Interesting piece on coast guard boarding  (Read 1683 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Interesting piece on coast guard boarding
« on: December 04, 2016, 07:12:01 PM »
I learned a lot I never knew about the laws at sea
https://www.facebook.com/rahettinga/posts/1200553116700150


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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MillCreek

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Re: Interesting piece on coast guard boarding
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2016, 07:28:51 PM »
Things I never learned in law school: a few sentences into that article, I was thinking 'Since when is the 4th Amendment superseded' and now I know.
_____________
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MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Interesting piece on coast guard boarding
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2016, 07:49:22 PM »
Yea there were at least a few points there I woulda called bs on before I read it


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Fly320s

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Re: Interesting piece on coast guard boarding
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2016, 08:07:56 PM »
It is a good read, all four parts.

Like I always thought, the CG can do pretty much anything they want and there is nothing to stop them.  They are a police force and a military force at the same time.  That has always rubbed me the wrong way, on top of their warrantless searches.
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Fly320s

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Re: Interesting piece on coast guard boarding
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2016, 08:13:26 PM »
Here is a short thread from 11 years ago showing my interest in the same topic.

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=1471.msg20961#msg20961

And another section of a thread where we discuss the CG's authority.

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=42698.msg870006#msg870006

It is my sincere hope that the CG gets their powers severely curtailed.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

Tuco

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Re: Interesting piece on coast guard boarding
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2016, 08:35:38 PM »
Is there anyway to access the article short of registering a throwaway zuckerbook acco?
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Ben

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Re: Interesting piece on coast guard boarding
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2016, 08:59:54 PM »
Is there anyway to access the article short of registering a throwaway zuckerbook acco?

I'm facebookless and was able to read the article.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2016, 09:57:37 PM »
Sailfeed.com

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

never_retreat

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Re: Interesting piece on coast guard boarding
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2016, 10:09:46 PM »
We were heading out a few years ago on a friends boat. Good 10 miles of dead slow/no wake till we get out to sea. We got pulled over 3 times. First was local popo, then staties, then coasties.
Same thing with the first 2, got life jackets, fire extinguisher, bla bla bla.
Told the coasties we have already been checked twice in the last 15 minutes. Guy hopped over and stuck a coast guard inspected or something or other sticker on either side of the boat. Said have a nice day and chances are they won't stop us again unless we were doing stupid.
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Tuco

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7-11 was a part time job.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2016, 11:50:48 AM »
No problem.  It's quite interesting  reading. Might keep me, or someone else , outa trouble

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Tuco

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Re:
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2016, 04:47:47 PM »
No problem.  It's quite interesting  reading. Might keep me, or someone else , outa trouble

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We have Coast Guard Auxillary patrolling the waters around here.  They turn on the bubblegum, hail small craft and check for life jackets, fire extinguishers, and whatnot.  Vessels that pass the inspection get a gaudy decal to paste on their boat.

Heard stories of a skipper not allowing GCAux to board a 45 footer, but possibly just "stories".
On the other hand, the subject of the story is exactly the type to not waste time and deny an inspection.

While the Auxiliaries have no real authority, they do have radios.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2016, 05:41:35 PM »
We used to laugh that the marine cops at Lake Anna wouldn't have noticed us swing if the boat was on fire. But bring Gary's girlfriend who posed in playboy? We'd get stopped 3 times on way to sturgeon Creek

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MechAg94

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Re:
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2016, 08:30:59 PM »
We used to laugh that the marine cops at Lake Anna wouldn't have noticed us swing if the boat was on fire. But bring Gary's girlfriend who posed in playboy? We'd get stopped 3 times on way to sturgeon Creek

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A friend of mine down here said much the same thing.  They get ignored just out fishing.  Put the wife and her friend in bikinis and no inspection opportunity is passed up.
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dm1333

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Re: Interesting piece on coast guard boarding
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2016, 06:23:59 PM »
It is a good read, all four parts.

Like I always thought, the CG can do pretty much anything they want and there is nothing to stop them.  They are a police force and a military force at the same time.  That has always rubbed me the wrong way, on top of their warrantless searches.


Speaking as a Coast Guardsman (and a Boarding Officer, a.k.a. water Nazi)with nearly 27 years of active duty, there is a lot wrong in that article.  I could spend all day picking the article apart.  Where do you want me to start?  I'm in the middle of dinner, after dinner I'm going to poke some holes in this guys article.   :police:




dm1333

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Re: Interesting piece on coast guard boarding
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2016, 07:13:58 PM »
Quote
Sorry, but when it comes to Coast Guard boardings, you don’t have any rights.

I’m surprised how many boaters don’t know this. The US Coast Guard can board your boat any time they want, and look anywhere they want, without probable cause or a warrant. They can do this on the open sea, or while you’re asleep aboard in your marina at midnight. They can look through your bedsheets, in your lockers, in your bilges, in your jewelry box, or in your pockets. They can do it carrying just their sidearms, or they can do it carrying assault rifles. They can be polite about it or they can be rude, but mostly they’re polite.

First, your rights don't disappear while you are being boarded.  That opening line is pure sensationalism.  The CG's authority is the ability to search, examine, arrest, seize, inspect and inquire.  More than 90% of the boardings we do fall under the Recreational Boating Safety category.  The goal of RBS is to educate, and to save lives.  When conducting an RBS boarding the BO can inspect required safety gear such as life jackets, lights, signaling device, etc.  The BO CANNOT look through your bedsheets, lockers or your pockets.  If something like a valve on your holding tank is in a locker under a sink they can look in the locker to make sure the valve is closed.  This is an INSPECTION, not a search for evidence or the fruits of a crime.  The penalty for safety gear violations is civil, not criminal, and is often waived if the boater can provide proof (a recept) that the violation has been fixed.

If I am going to search then I either have to have probable cause that a crime has been committed, a warrant, or I am searching for a known weapon or a missing person.  There are a couple of exceptions to this.  One is that we have been tasked with a customs inspection.  All CG Boarding Officers have customs officer authority.  If the vessel is entering US waters the vessel is subject to a border search.  Those searches have been declared reasonable by the Supreme Court.

Quote
They are a police force and a military force at the same time.  That has always rubbed me the wrong way, on top of their warrantless searches.

Except we can't do warrantless searches.  We also aren't a police force although we are an LE agency.  ANd a Search and Rescue organization.  And we do environmental response, maintain aids to navigation, have national defense tasking, etc.

Quote
We were heading out a few years ago on a friends boat. Good 10 miles of dead slow/no wake till we get out to sea. We got pulled over 3 times. First was local popo, then staties, then coasties.
Same thing with the first 2, got life jackets, fire extinguisher, bla bla bla.
Told the coasties we have already been checked twice in the last 15 minutes. Guy hopped over and stuck a coast guard inspected or something or other sticker on either side of the boat. Said have a nice day and chances are they won't stop us again unless we were doing stupid.

Happens here all the time.  I have a quota for boardings.  The sheriff's dept. has a boat on the water 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for most of the summer.  We try to conduct joint boardings to cut down on the number of times you get pulled over.  When I argue against quotas I am arguing with officers who generally don't have the operational experience that I have.  Their world and their OER's are driven by metrics.  Complaining to your congressmen will possibly get their attention.