Marriage counseling... does it work? Where do I start?

[brimic]

My marriage is in deep doo-doo and I think it might be past the point of help


Just had a short talk with my wife, she says she's going to leave me. The catch is, not right now, reason being is that she is pregnant and due in early April. She says she'll stay until the little one is a year old, then she's gone.

I believe her. I try to broach the subject of our problems probably once a month for the last year, and she doesn't want to talk about it. Tonight she said she doesn't want to even talk to me anymore because she finds me repulsive to be around. Over the last 6 months or so the only time she could be in my presence and not start bitching or screaming at me was if I happen to be doing something for her- like cleaning up after her, fixing things around the house, etc, but after I'm finished she would always take plenty of time to find faults in everything I do. Last week when I tried talking to her, she told my 2 year old son to 'tell daddy to shut the f- up" and he did. I walked away and I cried.

I don't know if our problems can be fixed by counseling, I don't even know where to start. I'm going to go talk to our Pastor tomorow, but I'm not sure where to go from there. From my wife's attitude it seems that she probably won't do counseling and she probably has mental problems on top of it all. It absolutely tears me up inside that she carries my baby which has to be born into this hell of a household which will probably be split up shortly down the line. The son I have is everything I have in this world and I don't want him hurt most of all.

[Felonious Monk/Fignozzle]

brimic,
You mentioned a pastor.  That's a good place to start.
Your wife is pregnant; raging chock full of hormones, moods swinging violently to and fro.

Often, a man is the "lightning rod" for all the frustrations she's built up over the day (week, month, lifetime).  The storm has brewed for a long time, built up TREMENDOUS energy, just waiting for a place to strike.

Try not to take it personally.  It may NOT really be about you.
Women need love.
Men need respect/admiration/affirmation.

Counseling can help, and even if both hearts aren't in it, if you get both bodies in a room with someone who is respected by both participants, and skilled in his counseling craft, things can be turned around.

Not easy, but achievable.
Sometimes, you have to be the one to "take a bullet" on behalf of the family;
rise above the fray; remember why you got together in the first place; honor her, LISTEN and run the line out like you're fishing-- let 'em tire themselves out, then you can sometimes get to the REAL issue once they're done venting.

Be strong, steady on, and don't let on like YOU'RE giving up, even if you feel like it.
I'll remember your family when I pray.  
And email me if you want to talk.
Fig

[natedog]

I'm not expert, but it sounds like a prime time to cut your losses and run. That's what I'd do, given the same situation.

[Zundfolge]

lawyer up.

He who files first "wins" ... sounds like she's pretty much gone so trying to reel her back is a waste of time.

She's telegraphed her punch so you need to beat her to it by filing first.

[Monkeyleg]

Oh, man. You're on a tough road.

Counseling---whether it's marriage, drugs, gambling, or other problems---requires the committment of the one with the problem. When there's two involved, it requires the committment of both.

I don't know you or your wife from Adam and Eve, so take this for what it's worth (free advice): do all you can to fix things. Things in the first year or two of marriage can get downright ugly, but then they can smooth out. Maybe yours will, maybe it won't.

If you've done all you absolutely think you can to fix things, get a good lawyer. I mean a really good divorce attorney, and document everything possible.*  If your wife is really screwed up, you want to have custody of the kids. And the burden is usually upon the husband to prove otherwise.

If you like, keep posting here. There's plenty of members who've been through what you're going through. There's also some very seasoned ministers  (Preacherman, is that you?) who can help you through your crisis.

[Monkeyleg]

I put the asterisk (*) after one sentence to relay a story. I'll do so later.

I'll just give you my story, and you can take it for what it's worth.

In the first couple of years of marriage, I was called every name that you can imagine, and then some. Friday and Saturday nights were either for love-making, or for real ball-breaking fights.

That was my wife. Then.

Her sister is 18 years younger, and I got to talking to her husband at length a few weeks ago.

He just couldn't believe the verbal abuse he's taking.

I told him, "welcome to the XYZ family, pal. I've been through this many, many times before."

Sometimes it's just there. It's there in the family, it's there in whatever happened to her before you met her, or it's just there forever (God forbid).

It's up to you whether to just abandon ship or stay the course until she rights herself. Notice I said that "she rights herself." If you haven't been abusive, then it's her chance or choice to save the marriage.

*As for the asterisk: Several years back I had to rent an airplane hangar to photograph some very large trucks. The owner of the hangar was the son of the president of a good-sized chemical company.

He told me that his wife---an absolutely stunning Asian woman---was suing him for divorce. Not just divorce, but her attorney was going after an award of 10% of all of this guy's future income in one lump sum settlement.

How's the guy going to know how much money he's going to make over the next ten years?

Anyway, the guy's attorney is the attorney who pretty much wrote Wisconsin's divorce laws.

The attorney pulled out a Rolodex, with a whole list of handsome guys on it. He told his client that, for $100,, any one of these guys would meet the ex-wife, date her, and marry her within a year, and that the client would be off the hook.

The guy refused, based on his principles.

Last I heard, the guy was still getting bled dry by his ex-wife.

**********************

[brimic]

He who files first "wins" ... sounds like she's pretty much gone so trying to reel her back is a waste of time.

I have had this thought in the back of my head for awhile, sort of tucked away for when things are completely irrecoverable.  Part of me wants to run to a lawyer insted of a Pastor, I've been put through a lot of emotional abuse over the last year or so and the darker side of me would love to see her and the lifestyle she enjoys knocked down several notches for it.  

On the other side, I want things to work out. She is not the person I married 5 years ago. She used to be fun loving, and interested in me but has changed for the worse. People change, I have no doubt changed as well, but I want to do what is best for my family. I've sacrificed so much for our family, that everything else I could give to save the marriage wouldn't even phase me. Maybe I have an Idealized paradigm of what a family should be where a mother and father work together despite their differences to raise their children, hers seems to be that marriage is disposable once the romance runs out. No suprise that I came from a 2 parent household and her parents divorced.


One thought I've had for awhile was to obtain a mini-cassette recorder to tape some of her screaming fits. I don't know if this would be a really good idea for trying to rebuild a relationship with counseling or if its even useful if we end up going down the divorce path.

[brimic]

Sometimes it's just there. It's there in the family, it's there in whatever happened to her before you met her, or it's just there forever (God forbid).

I didn't catch your last post Monkeyleg, until after I wrote the last one...

That's the exact situation I'm in, to a 'T'. Her father, a decent guy and all is a complete selfish ahole when dealing with his kids or with his ex-wife (from all accounts he was like that when married to her as well). When we got married, he wanted my wife to have things done in ways she didn't agree with, he was giving us a fairly large sum of money for a wedding present that he gave all of his kids (a 5 figure amount), she would be crying whenever she got off the phone with him while we were making our wedding arrangements. Finally, with her agreement, I called him up and told him to take his money roll it up real tight and stuff it someplace dark. That didn't exactly win me any points with him.  Unfortunately she has picked up some of the same traits- her need to control all household spending, her need for me to 'jump' when she says 'jump' and her need for me to be busy working every waking moment to serve her.  I've seen hersiblings treat their spouses the same way.

[HForrest]

Counseling can help... and if you have the time you say you do (before she leaves), it could help to give it a try. On the other hand, I've read about and seen personally people getting completely screwed... losing almost everything in a divorce. It's almost the hormone-crazy wife who files, gains sympathy from everyone, and steals away the man's assets and money in court. That could be you.

If you really would like it to work out, try counseling and see how it goes... but don't wait too long. If you don't feel you're making progress, the prudent thing to do would be to file first. Heartbreaking, but if you don't, it could end up being way worse for you.

[Guest]

If she's acting as wiggy as you're saying, I'd set up a teensy little video/audio camera somewhere and record highlights...assuming your state's laws allow that.

About half do.

[lifer]

I reconciled with my wife after divorcing her for 8 months in the late 80's. We have been married for 24 years now. I know a few others who reconciled also. It can be done. You just have to get away from the environment you are in. If your credit cards are not maxed out- go on a trip. Talk honestly. That's all there is to it. Marriage is not paradise- it is the bigggest lie that disillusions so many. A marriage is a battle between two spirits fighting to not be of one mind. That is the way it is. If you have the strength to deal with it and she does to, then you can make it. Good luck my friend; I will pray for you.

[Stand_watie]

I'm going to pray for you too.

A few months ago I was in a deeper hole than it sounds like you are in now.  Our pastor's first counsel was to "stop digging".

My advice is to get to your pastor, a medical doctor, trusted family members and a therapist/counselor for yourself whether your wife will go or not. I'd probably have killed myself in April without all of the above.

Expect prayers and words of comfort  and wisdom from some of the forum members in private. Figure out what is right in your heart and go with it, remember you're the one who is going to have to be looking at your own face in the mirror for the rest of your life.

Best regards

[BrokenPaw]

I agree with the others who say that, since you apparently have the time, counseling (whether for you alone or for the both of you, if she's willing) is a good thing to pursue.  But one thing I will say is that if progress (real progress) is not being made before the baby is born, you need to separate, for the sake of the child.

I know everyone says that a child needs two parents, and to some extent that's true.  But it's better for the child to have a mom and a dad who do not live together, and who can speak civilly to one another because they rarely have to, than to have a mom and a dad who live together, but cannot get along because one or both hates the other.

The first year of a child's life is a very formative time; the rudiments of language, as well as the models for interaction with others, begin to form in their minds at a very young age.  Just because they're not talking doesn't mean that they're not listening.  And beyond words, children are very perceptive of emotion.  Babies are often not scared of dangerous situations until they see the expression of fear on their parents' faces.  Likewise, if your wife cannot help but feel loathing and spite for you, that's what will ultimately become ingrained in the child's mind.

If you feel the relationship is worth saving, by all means, do what you can to save it.  But if it's still headed south by the time the baby comes, get out.  For your sake, and for the child's.

My advice is worth what you've paid for it.

Namaste,
-BP

[brimic]

Alright. This morning I had to call my mother-in-law to tell her not to come over today. She was going to come over to help out because my son has been sick all week, but he was better this morning. I asked her if she could help intervene and she broke down crying because she had issues with her daughter as well- it seems that my lovely wffe had told her off on the phone and hung up on her a week ago over a trivial matter then later played it off to her mother like it was no big deal. My Mother-in-law said that she and my wife's siblings have noticed how my wife has been quite mean to them and basicly told me that she can't believe that i've put up with her this long. She actually thinks my wife needs counseling and or some sort of intervention. I called my wife and told her that she needs to appologize to her mother for what she did, and she blew it off and started bitching me out about taking sides against her on it, I only heard so much before I slammed the receiver of the phone down. So maybe I'm not completely crazy afterall.

I talked to my Pastor this morning, he's going to call her later today and see if he can get her to come in and talk to him. I'm not sure how that's going to go, but I wouldn't have talked to him if I didn't have at least a bit of hope.

[Zundfolge]

My Mother-in-law said that she and my wife's siblings have noticed how my wife has been quite mean to them and basicly told me that she can't believe that i've put up with her this long. She actually thinks my wife needs counseling and or some sort of intervention.

How old is your wife? Is she close to menopause? If not she could be Perimenopausal (which is the stage just before menopause ... with some women the emotional stuff is worse during that period than actual menopause, and many women start this in their late '30s).

Is your wife a drinker? Any drugs in her past?

You said you'd rather talk to a pastor then a lawyer ... maybe you should talk to both. Work at trying to save the marriage, but get your legal ducks in a row so that if it goes south you can act fast.

I don't know anything about your MIL or your relationship with her, but if things get nasty keep in mind that she'll turn on you in a heartbeat (since in the vast majority of the time the woman gets custody of the children, she's going to make sure she has access to her grandchildren) so be careful ... remember your wife gets this nuttiness from somewhere .

Keep in mind that it doesn't matter how much YOU want this to work, if she's already emotionaly out the door then all is lost.

[brimic]

Wife is 36.
She doesn't drink. She doesn't do drugs, at least since I've known her.

I don't know anything about your MIL or your relationship with her, but if things get nasty keep in mind that she'll turn on you in a heartbeat (since in the vast majority of the time the woman gets custody of the children, she's going to make sure she has access to her grandchildren) so be careful .

Contrary to the stereortypical mother-in-law, mine is practically a saint, I don't think I've met too many nicer people than her. That being said, I'm still being careful.

remember your wife gets this nuttiness from somewhere

Directly from her father.

[Waitone]

Seeking help from medical, psychological, family specialists is advisable BUT ONLY IF ALL PARTIES CONCERNED THINK THE MARRIAGE IS WORTH SAVING.  I've been though drug induced personalty changes (legal drugs for my wife).  I've been though the father/mother transferrence.  I've been though the marriage counseling routine.  Where it really gets sticky is when family of origin issues gets balled up in medical and drug induced personalty changes.  

If your wife is interested in attempting to fix the problem, start with a thorough physical to rule out medical issues.  Pregnancy can cause major issues.  Then you might move on to a psychiatrist followed by spiritual and psychological work.  My advice is to rule medical and drug induced issues out first.  

Yea, and you will feel screwed because of your son.  If it comes to divorce make sure you match her attorney nastiness for nastiness because you have a lifetime with which to be bled.

Tough situation but you will come out better.

[Sindawe]

brimic:  I'm not trying to make a bad situation worse, but you may want to consider confirming the parentage of your children via DNA analysis.  Your wife as already telegraphed her intentions, and in my view you should be looking to protect yourself AND your kids.  Their springing from anothers seed (if such is the case) should make no difference in your emotional bonds with them, but could prove valuable in a nasty court fight.

Consult with the toughest, nastiest lawyer you can afford.

[Guest]

Go talk to your family doctor. If she didn't use to be a lunatic and has slowly gotten that way over time, there could be a physical problem that she isn't even aware of. I never understood how people could be so depressed and irrational about things until I started taking this stuff for my thyroid, which made me go so far from one to extreme to the other, it was like living in someone else's body. A few weeks ago, I started crying and didn't stop for eight hours and I wasn't even in a bad mood. So, yea..talk to a doctor and see if there's a reason for it.

If its not purely physical and she has an actual mental condition, I think its no more fair to say dump her than it would be if she were physically sick. That doesn't mean you owe anyone being miserable the rest of your life, but you did marry her and owe her the basic decency of trying to make sure she's ok before you lawyer up and screw her out of everything.

[Gun Runner]

Read a book:

Relationship Rescue by Dr. Phil, yeah, the one on TV

I'm not a fan of head shrinker's or self-help books by any means, but I read the book and it makes some damn good points.  It's worth a read even if you're single.  They probably even have it at Wal-Mart.

[Felonious Monk/Fignozzle]

+1 on Phil McGraw's Relationship Rescue.
Lots of solid, no BS advice on working it out real-world.

It will help if YOU buy it, start reading it, and see if she's interested.

[Stand_watie]

In-laws.

I'd like to add something...everyone told me that my relationship with my in-laws was going to sour with the relationship with the wife going wrong, and everyone was wrong.

I'd like to suggest this, in that regard, treat them decently and kindly and reassure them that they will always hold the same regard in your feelings as they always did, regardless of your wife's actions. Reassure them that you would never punish your child for your own relationship by poisoning him/her against them or withholding them being able to see your child. I'm not saying to sign over the deed to your gold mine, but if you want to make your marriage work your in-laws can be your greatest allies, and having a good relationship with them will pay major future dividends even if it doesn't.

[Oleg Volk]

If youhad a sister whose husband treated her as your wife treats you, what would you advise her to do? Extrapolate to your own situation.

[brimic]

Blackburn, you owe me a monitor screen cleaning for that pic. That made my day

[Strings]

brimic: just noticed your location. If you need to bail for a day or so (and can handle cats), you're more than welcome to spend a weekend up here (Manitowoc). PM me if you're interested