Author Topic: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?  (Read 3261 times)

robear

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Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« on: October 14, 2010, 01:43:44 PM »
Saw a link for this on Gizmodo.    Guy fires a bullet at the ice, and finds it a few seconds later -spinning- in place, seemingly undamaged except for the rifling marks.
Crazy.    They do it at least twice in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foZlciP6gUQ


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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2010, 01:46:59 PM »
Awesome?

Someone with a better understanding of physics than me: is this possible?
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lee n. field

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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2010, 01:55:57 PM »
Spinning, but not melting into the ice?
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2010, 01:59:12 PM »
I'm calling BS.
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Harold Tuttle

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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 01:59:23 PM »
coolio!

ice is hard

bullet still has spin after it uses all it's forward push

It polly sheds heat pretty rapidly
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2010, 02:00:23 PM »
coolio!

ice is hard

bullet still has spin after it uses all it's forward push

It polly sheds heat pretty rapidly

But after hitting a hard object, wouldn't most bullets deform?  Its there, spinning, in perfect condition.
And, he shot it an angle. 
Angle + hard surface = usually ricochet.
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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2010, 02:01:26 PM »
I know hollow points deform when hitting deer...
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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2010, 02:13:53 PM »
The bullet is a lie.

taurusowner

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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2010, 02:34:49 PM »
I think it's BS.  I agree that the bullet should show some sort of deformation.

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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2010, 02:45:12 PM »
IF this is real... and again, a big IF...

What I think is happening is that the ice has both just enough hardness and give (Perhaps it liquefies on impact shielding the bullet?) to arrest the bullet's forward momentum and allow it to bounce a few feet in the air, but because it's also lubricated by that skin of water where it's hitting/crushing the ice, it's not being robbed of it's rotation imparted by the rifling.

I really hope Mythbusters does take this up like the video comments state.
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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2010, 02:51:02 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPs70mhEM_A&feature=related

Claims it was a 9mm, but that sure doesn't look like one.  Does anyone know of any 9mm rounds that have a conical inverted rear?

S
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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2010, 03:21:47 PM »
In the first video, at 1:57 he shows the magic round next to the magazine from the pistol to show that they are "the same."

Except that the spinning bullet was a FMJ round nose, and the top round in the magazine looked to me like a flat point.

I'm calling it a fake. I also didn't think the spinning round was "discovered" anywhere near any of the places he shot. Watch closely.
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HankB

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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2010, 03:26:23 PM »
I suppose something like this COULD happen . . . just like it's POSSIBLE that if you toss a coin on the sidewalk that it will come to rest on its edge.

But the spinning bullet video linked above looks like a hoax to me.
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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2010, 03:28:00 PM »
Claims it was a 9mm, but that sure doesn't look like one.  Does anyone know of any 9mm rounds that have a conical inverted rear?

S

Yeah, I've recovered some 9mm FMJ's like that. Also, the lead may actually HAVE shifted when the bullet suddenly stopped in the ice, making it dent inward towards the tip.

I've fired 9mm FMJ into a hard packed stack of National Geographic magazines two feet thick backed up by concrete and the 9mm came out pretty unscathed save for the rifling marks too.

Also, everyone claiming the bullet was not deformed may not be right, it may well be deformed, but just into another regular bullet-like shape with an intact jacket. We just don't know how deformed they are until someone takes a micrometer to them.

In the first video, at 1:57 he shows the magic round next to the magazine from the pistol to show that they are "the same."

Except that the spinning bullet was a FMJ round nose, and the top round in the magazine looked to me like a flat point.

I'm calling it a fake. I also didn't think the spinning round was "discovered" anywhere near any of the places he shot. Watch closely.

AFAIK, those bullets were .40 S&W which has to have a flat meplat to get 180gr into the OAL of a 9x19. And perhaps impact deformed the nose back into a more traditional ball-FMJ profile.

I'm far from convinced either. OTOH, why go through all the trouble to fake it either?  ??? Assuming it's not CGI, they'd have to spin the bullet up in some kind of a drill then let it go or whatever. If this is just some oddball effect of firing a near-point-blank ranges into ice, it's obviously no harder than pulling the trigger and looking around your feet for the bullet.

So in a weird way, it does make a certain amount of sense from an application of Occam's Razor.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 03:32:43 PM by AJ Dual »
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Harold Tuttle

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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2010, 03:31:12 PM »
its almost a triple rainbow
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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2010, 03:52:23 PM »
At 1000fps and presuming a rifling 1:12 twist (generic guesstimate) that's 60,000 rpm.  Lotsa rotashunatin', that.  At 4100fps (.30-06 Accelerator and 204 Ruger velocities) bullets from a 1:12 twist barrel leave the muzzle spinning a mind-bending 246,000 rpm.  No wonder they sometimes go *poof* right in front of you.

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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2010, 04:03:09 PM »
to hard of a surface and the bullet goes splatt

to soft and it buries in and sticks

ice might shatter enough to scrub some speed and allow the bullet to jump out and run like a top
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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2010, 05:28:53 PM »
But after hitting a hard object, wouldn't most bullets deform?  Its there, spinning, in perfect condition.
And, he shot it an angle. 
Angle + hard surface = usually ricochet.
FWIW, I've seen "hard cast" lead bullets fired into oak that showed no deformation at all.  The only marks on the bullets were from the rifling.  We were all pretty surprised to see 'em come out in such good condition.  If not for those rifling grooves, you could've reloaded those bullets and used 'em again.


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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2010, 05:33:36 PM »
At LA Tech they found the best ballistic barrier to meteorite impact for satellites was... GLASS! It seems that 2"x2" sheets of plain glass stacked a few inches thick in a metal frame were the most effective at stopping AP rounds fired at point blank range from a 30.06 out of all the materials tested! The ice may have shattered/crushed in the same way decelerating the bullets forward motion without greatly affecting its rotation. The projectile then bounced back from its point of impact, still spinning, and landed near by still rotating at a good clip. Notice how long some of those spin before they stop. They are spinning VERY fast!
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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2010, 06:03:09 PM »
I know if a bunch of guys shoot a bunch of .22 rounds and all the shells land on a hard surface you'll usually find more than a few standing up on the primer end so I guess I could see this spin thing happening every now and then too. 
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grampster

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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2010, 06:17:25 PM »
I'm calling it a fake. I also didn't think the spinning round was "discovered" anywhere near any of the places he shot. Watch closely.

Exactly what I was thinking when I was watching the video clip.  I wondered also about the angle he was shooting would have caused a richochet, not leave a bullet standing vertical.  I can buy the spin in ice but not the way they were doing it.
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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2010, 06:21:07 PM »
its almost a triple rainbow

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Re: Bullet spinning on ice after impact?
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2010, 11:58:55 AM »
The scene: Indoor range with smoothly finished concrete floor, finished in some sort of sealer.

Acquaintance pops off round from G21 (.45ACP), and an appreciable time later (a second or two), a spent .45 slug, appearing with rifling marks and a LITTLE abrasion on one side of the nose of the jacket, comes skittering across the floor to stop on the safe side of the firing line, spinning merrily on its side.

I'se there.  I seen it.  Don't know about no ice ,tho'.
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