scary news from China

[thorn]

ok moved it over here form THR-

man how do we prepare for this?
(from nytimes.com, sorry i cna't link it and i dont think i am technically supposed to quote the whole article)

""If the Americans draw their missiles and position-guided ammunition on to the target zone on China's territory, I think we will have to respond with nuclear weapons," the official, Maj. Gen. Zhu Chenghu, said at an official briefing.

General Zhu, considered a hawk, stressed that his comments reflected his personal views and not official policy. Beijing has long insisted that it will not initiate the use of nuclear weapons in any conflict.

But in extensive comments to a visiting delegation of correspondents based in Hong Kong, General Zhu said he believed that the Chinese government was under internal pressure to change its "no first use" policy and to make clear that it would employ the most powerful weapons at its disposal to defend its claim over Taiwan."""

as it says, this isnt official policy (yet) but man, this doesnt sit well with me.

[Paddy]

as it says, this isnt official policy (yet) but man, this doesnt sit well with me.

Yeah, well it shouldn't because I think they can reach California with the missle technology Clinton gave them.

[jefnvk]

i cna't link it and i dont think i am technically supposed to quote the whole article

Sorry, but I am going to need one or another, before I can come to any conclusion on this.  For example:

If the Americans draw their missiles and position-guided ammunition on to the target zone on China's territory, I think we will have to respond with nuclear weapons," the official, Maj. Gen. Zhu Chenghu, said at an official briefing

I have no idea what that means, without the stuff previous to it.

[Sindawe]

How to prepare for this?  Well, we could start by asking the folks who live on the island of Taiwan what THEY want.  I've seen some article online from the Taiwan press that lead me to believe a good number of the population thinks of themselves as Chinese, and the rift 'tween their .gov and mainland China's .gov is just a temporary spat in the family that will be healed in another 10 years or so.  Little desire for formal political independence as we in the U.S. view it.

I've also seen today reports that Beijing is trying to distance itself from the comments of General Zhu. http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.asp?feed=FT&Date=20050715&ID=4967906

Everybody has their loose cannons.

[Sindawe]

jefnvk: See here - http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45278

[thorn]

>>>Yeah, well it shouldn't because I think they can reach California with the missle technology Clinton gave them.<<<

totally- and the article went on to say things more or less of that nature- i would be in BIG trouble. there are not enough roads to get all of us out of here fast enough. the article definitely said they could reach the western US with current tech they have.
the claim was "we would be prepared to lose cities east of xian, and the Americans would lose hundreds of cities.

over a tiny island. and we already know bush is not the type to back down, he'll probably let them blow us off the map "oh, CA was gonna fall in the ocena anyway"

welll, maybe y'all out east/south will be happy- till the nuclear clouds floats east............

[RevDisk]

Well, we could start by asking the folks who live on the island of Taiwan what THEY want.

I had an interesting thought.   We recognize the PRC as a country.  We do not officially recognize ROC/Taiwan as a country.  We technically side with the PRC theory that Taiwan is a rebel providence of mainland China that we are officially neutral on.

That's right, we side with a communist country over a democracy.  


Bah.

[jefnvk]

Ah, thanks much!  Figured this was over Taiwan.

I have the feeling that as soon as China lets loose with that first nuke, all their major cities, which are probably already targeted, get hit.  That whole MAD thing.

[thorn]

oh sorry i shoulda put a little more info in there, yeah , it was over China reclaiming Taiwan, us trying to stop it

>>>I have the feeling that as soon as China lets loose with that first nuke, all their major cities, which are probably already targeted, get hit.  That whole MAD thing.<<<<

either that or we appease China and give them Taiwan = hmmm Czechoslovakia anyone?

[thorn]

>>>>>>How to prepare for this?  Well, we could start by asking the folks who live on the island of Taiwan what THEY want.  I've seen some article online from the Taiwan press that lead me to believe a good number of the population thinks of themselves as Chinese, and the rift 'tween their .gov and mainland China's .gov is just a temporary spat in the family that will be healed in another 10 years or so.  Little desire for formal political independence as we in the U.S. view it.

I've also seen today reports that Beijing is trying to distance itself from the comments of General Zhu. http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provid & ID=4967906

Everybody has their loose cannons.<<<<<<<,

true, and good, the times makes it look like this guy has more support than he does. at any rate, it is a bit scary- i never know- can we trust the Chinese military not to supercede the rest of the Gov't ? i hope so.

we really don't see much of the "word on the street" in Taiwan, what the people there want. hard to believe they want REd China over them though.

just sent a real chill through me to read that article. i feel less worried now, thanks

[Standing Wolf]

Obvious solution: send some U.S. Navy boats to Taiwan to undertake joint exercises with the Taiwanese military forces. China should know better than to fire off its mouth that way.

[Guest]

So what they are saying is that if we start shooting at them they will shoot back with bigger guns? So what? Im pretty sure the feeling is mutual.

[thorn]

>>>So what they are saying is that if we start shooting at them they will shoot back with bigger guns? So what? Im pretty sure the feeling is mutual.<<<

uh not exactly, the are saying they will nuke US cities if we do what Standing Wolf said.

BUT- it is only a general talking, not the whole Chinese gov't

[bg]

Unlike us, I believe Red China has huge network of underground stations and bases set
up much like the the NVA and Cong set up. What troubles me is Red China going after
California based Unocal..Won't take nukes. Just stop the supply of oil here to the states
and things go to pot quick. I remember Dec 31, 1999. I was working at a local Unocal as
a smog tech, and the rides/people that lined up to get propane and gas was unbelievable.

We had just got the tanks filled up that morning and by 6:00 pm that night we were out
of reg and hi-test..We had got a supply of propane late on the 30th. By 2:00 on the
31st, the mgr was calling every supplier we had on the books..Propane ran out at 8:00 pm
on the 31st, and the cashier was scared because customers were blaming him for running
out. The owner said " lock it down and go home ".

The natives were getting real restless, and it was only because it was turning yr 2000.
People get real edgy when oil or water or food is cut off even for a day or so.

Cut off the oil supply here to the states for a bit and watch what happens..

[Robert Sears]

Other than fresh vegetables I don't think most of the U.S. would miss Cal.

Bob

[El Tejon]

I would miss Cauleefornia, considering it is part of the U.S., just like NYC!  Besides we have many friends there.

Zhu's a known knucklehead and a PLA firebrand.  Geez, the guy wants to re-invade Vietnam.  CPPRC still calls the shots.

[thorn]

well it seems like this is all moot, as in this Gen. is a knucklehead,

>>>>Other than fresh vegetables I don't think most of the U.S. would miss Cal.

Bob<<<<<

i was waiting for that, i did hint at it already- of course you all would also miss all that extra fed funds we give out, and the greater impact of CA economy on the world- this state has what the 5th largest economy in the world?
something like that.
plus all the refined oil WE export to the rest of the US, the HUGE percentage of eastern goods shipped thru Cali=

sure you THINK you can replace the ports, except for the billions spent on docks around here, and the years it takes to build and install cranes to load unload ships. (ps=-the cranes, and goods all come from China so we get in a war with China we got much bigger problems).

Details=>>>>
THE CALIFORNIA ECONOMY IS THE FIFTH LARGEST IN THE WORLD
The ranking is based on gross domestic product data from the World Bank, and a
California gross state product estimate prepared by the UCLA Anderson Forecasting
Project. Gross product is a measure of the output of all goods and services produced by
an economy. California's output would rank fifth if included in a ranking of countries:
GROSS PRODUCT IN YEAR 2000 (billions of dollars)
1 United States $9,837
2 Japan 4,842
3 Germany 1,873
4 United Kingdom 1,414
CALIFORNIA 1,341
5 France 1,294
6 China 1,080
7 Italy 1,074
8 Canada 688
9 Brazil 595
10 Mexico 574
The World Bank and the UCLA Anderson Forecast have well-established techniques for
measuring gross product. For more information on these organizations, visit their
websites at www.worldbank.org and www.uclaforecast.com.


the US needs Cali, really the world needs it. sorry guys.

[El Tejon]

thorn, no doubt Zhu could be trouble if he slips his leash and starts something!  Yikes.

[Matthew Carberry]

Thorn,

Perhaps other states might have some of that refining capacity if Cali's oversized Congressional team didn't put the kibosh on it.

Magnusen Act et al. (course WA and OR are to blame as well)

[Justin]

China attack America?

HA! Talk about killing the goose that laid the golden eggs.
Same goes for cutting off our oil supply.

After all, which is more economically prosperous for the Chinese?  To cut off (part) of our oil supply, lose out on literally millions of dollars in wealth generation every day all while mobilizing a military to cross the Pacific and invade, or to just continue selling us oil to stick in our 300 hp Hemi's?

The Chinese would have to be quite literally insane to try any sort of serious military or economic shenanigans with us.  Unlike Russia during the Cold War, the Chinese economy and the US economy are tied together.  Any disruption of one would have dire repurcussions for the other.

[Bemidjiblade]

I just found a translation of the Chinese National Anthem.
Anyone else find this a bit disconcerting?

The Chinese National Anthem
Arise, ye who refuse to be slaves;
With our very flesh and blood Let us build our new Great Wall!
The peoples of China are in the most critical time,
Everybody must roar his defiance.
Arise! Arise! Arise!
Millions of hearts with one mind,
Brave the enemy's gunfire,
March on!
Brave the enemy's gunfire,
March on! March on! March on, on!

http://www.abacci.com/atlas/anthem.asp?countryID=170