Post by: gunsmith on December 04, 2006, 10:58:02 PM
I'm not saying all that to beat up on them though, I am praying the dad is found alive.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...s/16166775.htm
Missing S.F. mother, children found safe in Oregon
SEARCH CONTINUES FOR FATHER
By Julia Prodis Sulek and Linda Goldston
Mercury News
A San Francisco mother kept her infant and 4-year-old daughters alive by nursing them both during their nine-day ordeal snowbound in the Oregon mountains before being found Monday.
The only sign of the father, who burned the station wagon tires to keep his family warm and gathered berries to eat, were his footprints in the snow.
James Kim, 35, had left the family Saturday morning, promising to be back by 1 p.m., but he hasn't been seen since. Oregon law enforcement were tracking his footprints, which dipped into a steep icy drainage, into the night.
The family had been missing since Nov. 25, after spending Thanksgiving in Seattle. They were heading back home and had stopped at a Denny's Restaurant in Roseburg, Ore., where they were last seen.
Numerous Oregon law enforcement agencies, from county sheriffs to the national guard, have been dedicated to the search over the past nine days. But it was a private helicopter apparently hired by the Kims' relatives that spotted the vehicle after signals from the Kims' attempted cell phone calls were tracked to a tower near the vehicle.
``The fact they were found is miraculous,'' said San Francisco Police Inspector Angela Martin. ``She held up an umbrella with SOS written on it. She was that smart to save her babies and herself.''
When the father is found, Martin added, ``I'll be able to breathe again.''
Kati Kim, 30, and her children, Penelope, 4, and Sabine, 7 months, were in fair condition when they were airlifted to a hospital from their stranded silver Saab 900 station wagon 30 miles west of Grants Pass. Through the helicopter window, the mother was seen holding her swaddled infant close to her chest.
The Kim story is reminiscent of the ordeal endured by James Stolpa and his wife and infant son in 1993. When the Paso Robles family became snowbound in northwestern Nevada, James Stolpa left his family in a sleeping bag in a natural cave, where the mother nursed her son for three days until Stolpa found help.
Today is the third day James Kim -- a senior editor at San Francisco tech Web site Cnet -- has been separated from his family.
After leaving Portland Nov. 25 and stopping for dinner in Roseburg, the Kims headed to Gold Beach on the coast where they planned to stay before heading back to San Francisco.
But they took Bear Camp Road -- a scenic road used by whitewater rafters on the Rogue River in the summer, but not plowed in the winter.
``It was pretty wet. It was snowing close to the top,'' said Lt. Gregg Hastings of the Oregon State Police. ``They felt it wasn't safe to continue. They were trying to back down a very narrow road in the snow. They were having traction problems.''
They reached a side road and followed it until they got stuck in a snowbank, he said.
``They used quite a bit of gas trying to get out,'' which they finally did, Hastings said.
But as they continued on for several miles, they reached a fork in the road and decided to stop.
``It was pretty dark out,'' Hastings said. ``At that point, they decided to stay because they were lost.''
The snow continued on top of the mountain, making it hard for rescuers to find them, he said.
But on Monday afternoon, the vehicle was located along with Kati Kim waving her SOS umbrella. At the hospital, she told staff that ``she breast fed both of her children during the nine days,'' said Laura Biggers, marketing director of the parent company of Three Rivers Community Hospital in Grants Pass.
The wait for family and friends in the Bay area has been torturous.
The couple owned two boutiques in San Francisco -- ``Doe,'' a clothing store on Haight Street, and the Church Street Apothecary, said Charlene Wright, the Apothecary store manager.
``It's really emotional,'' Wright said. ``I'm here putting fresh flowers in the vases to make sure it looks good when Kati gets home.''
Kati Kim worked at the store until her second child, Sabine, was born, and still ``calls us constantly to check in on the stores,'' Wright said.
Wright last talked to the Kims the day before Thanksgiving and had expected to hear from Kati Kim the following Saturday.
``When they headed up, they weren't planning on the being in the snow,'' she said, adding: ``They're a beautiful family, dedicated, loving. They're just fantastic folks to know.''
Cell phone tower designer and volunteer Eric Fuqua, who used Edge Wireless data to detect the pings from the Kims' failed phone calls, ``was the key in this,'' Inspector Martin said.
``As far as I'm concerned, he's the hero,'' Martin said.
__________________
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Post by: LadySmith on December 05, 2006, 02:24:50 AM
If I ever got stranded like that, I think I could survive for a couple of months just with what I hav ein my purse.
Men, when it comes to a grown woman's purse, be afraid...be very afraid.
Post by: Chris on December 05, 2006, 05:31:58 AM
Post by: meinbruder on December 05, 2006, 07:18:10 AM
I included the ? because they sure were not prepared. When ever I make a long trip thru wilderness I include food and survival gear, even if it's over hiway 80 from Reno to SF, especially in winter
I'm not saying all that to beat up on them though, I am praying the dad is found alive.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...s/16166775.htm
I'm not saying all that to beat up on them though, I am praying the dad is found alive.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...s/16166775.htm
To get from Roseburg to Gold Beach requires a trip south into Kalifornia and north to get back into Oregon; or, backtrack north a bit and then south on the Oregon Coast Hwy. There arent any roads passable to a car and a few that will give four-wheelers a headache. I had family living in the Grants Pass area for a while and they wouldnt think about using some of those roads in high summer much less at this time of year.
The local news here in Portland claims the family map-quested the shortest route and didnt consider the possibility of travel difficulty. The story was presented as a perfect example of not using map-quest in unfamiliar areas. Mrs. Kim and the kids are lucky to have been found but Mr. Kim is likely to found by hunters in the next few years.
Gunsmith, Im with you. I hope they find him soon.
}:)>
Post by: Sergeant Bob on December 05, 2006, 08:00:45 AM
Quote
The Kim story is reminiscent of the ordeal endured by James Stolpa and his wife and infant son in 1993. When the Paso Robles family became snowbound in northwestern Nevada, James Stolpa left his family in a sleeping bag in a natural cave, where the mother nursed her son for three days until Stolpa found help.
Yeah, they made Jim Stolpa out to be some kind of hero, when in actuality, he was a frakking idiot.When the major highways across the mountains were closed due to excessive snow, he decided to take the back roads through the mountains!
I'm glad most of those people are OK and hope they find the father but, this guy wasn't any brighter than Jim Stolpa.
Post by: client32 on December 05, 2006, 08:22:52 AM
But, whenever someting like this gets published, it makes my wife look at me with a little less contenpt when I pack survival gear in the car for a road trip.
I shared this with my earlier today for near the same reason. I toss a few extra items in the car when we head out of town, especially on cold days.
Post by: Eleven Mike on December 05, 2006, 09:20:17 AM
Post by: charby on December 05, 2006, 09:23:35 AM
Post by: 280plus on December 05, 2006, 10:11:58 AM
It reminds me of Mt Washington. The only month of the year when someone hasn't died of exposure on the mountain is July. That's pretty darn scary if you ask me.
Just heard a gunshot off in the distance. Must be hunting season!
Post by: 280plus on December 05, 2006, 10:18:34 AM
25 minutes ago
MERLIN, Ore. - Searchers scoured a narrow canyon in Oregon's snowy Coast Range on Tuesday for a man missing for more than a week in the rugged area while his wife and two young children, rescued just the day before, recovered in a hospital.
ADVERTISEMENT
A helicopter with heat-sensing equipment joined other helicopters, snowmobiles and foot patrols Tuesday in the hunt for 35-year-old James Kim of San Francisco. Trained dogs and horse patrols were on standby to help in the seach. Trackers had followed his footprints until dark Monday night.
Officials said it appeared that Kim was within five miles of the car he'd left Saturday morning in search of help.
Trackers said he had headed downhill and apparently walked out of an area covered with snow. The trackers "were following scuff marks" in dirt and rock, said Undersheriff Brian Anderson of Josephine County.
The drainage Kim followed headed for the nearby Rogue River, and the search and rescue teams brought out rafts Tuesday to check the river.
Kim, a senior editor for CNET Networks, had left his wife and two young children in their frozen, snowbound car and set off into the wilderness to seek help, wearing only tennis shoes, a sweater and a jacket.
Anderson said Kim took two lighters with him when he left the car. "Maybe he got a fire going," he said at a news conference.
Overnight temperatures in the region have been in the mid 20s to mid 30s.
A helicopter crew spotted his wife, Kati Kim, 30, waving an umbrella Monday afternoon. She and her daughters Penelope, 4, and Sabine, 7 months, were flown to a hospital in Grants Pass.
They were in very good condition Tuesday and Sabine was expected to be released from the hospital, said Linda Rankin, vice president for patient care at Three Rivers Community Hospital.
Kati Kim might lose one toe because of the cold, her father, Dr. Phil Fleming, told The Associated Press on Tuesday as he and his wife, Sandy, awaited a flight to Oregon from Albuquerque, N.M. He said his daughter breast-fed the two children to keep them nourished during the ordeal and "the children are doing extraordinarily well."
"You think about a soldier being killed or an individual in a car accident, and you often time wonder how difficult that is," said Fleming, of Gallup, N.M. "But take a whole family and subject two kids to it it's just unbearable."
The family said James Kim left the car stuck in the snow in southwestern Oregon at about 7:45 a.m. Saturday and walked back the way they had come to look for help, saying he would return by 1 p.m. if he found none.
His family said he had outdoor experience, and State Police Lt. Doug Ladd said there was "a very reasonable chance" that he is still alive. They said he had eaten berries in the area and didn't know if they were poisonous.
Before he left, the four huddled together as a family for warmth and ran the car at night until they ran out of gas. Officials said some of the tires were burned as signal fires in a vain attempt to attract attention.
"They did a good job. They are in remarkable shape for spending nine days out in the wilderness in this type weather conditions," Anderson said.
Searchers said the key to their discovery was a "ping" signal from the Kims' cell phone, even though the remote region is generally out of cell phone range.
The family saw friends in Portland on Nov. 25 and then headed toward home after a Thanksgiving trip to the Pacific Northwest. They were last spotted at a restaurant that same day, then never arrived at a lodge where they had reservations.
Authorities combed highways and byways using snow machines and helicopters, and checked hotels and resorts along the south coast.
State Police Lt. Gregg Hastings said Kati Kim told a detective the family intended to take Oregon 42, the usual route from Interstate 5 to the south Oregon coast, but they missed the turnoff, found Bear Camp Road on the map and decided to take it instead of turning back. Their car was found 15 miles from Bear Camp Road.
The complicated network of roads in the area is commonly used by whitewater rafters on the Rogue River or as shortcuts to Gold Beach in the summer, but the roads are not plowed in winter.
As a senior editor for CNET in San Francisco, James Kim covers digital audio and co-hosts a weekly video podcast for the Crave gadgets blog on CNET. The couple also own two boutiques in San Francisco.
"We are extremely relieved that they have found Kati and the kids," said Sarah Cain, spokeswoman for CNET Networks Inc. "We are cautiously optimistic and hopeful that it will bring more good news about James and his family."
___
Associated Press writer Matt Mygatt in Albuquerque, N.M., contributed to this story.
Post by: wingnutx on December 05, 2006, 10:27:41 AM
Post by: Eleven Mike on December 05, 2006, 10:35:23 AM
Post by: DrAmazon on December 05, 2006, 10:40:45 AM
Post by: Cosmoline on December 05, 2006, 10:43:16 AM
Post by: gunsmith on December 05, 2006, 12:08:45 PM
Quote
His family said he had outdoor experience, and State Police Lt. Doug Ladd said there was "a very reasonable chance" that he is still alive. They said he had eaten berries in the area and didn't know if they were poisonous.
I guess in this case outdoor experience is a walk on the Ocean Beach in San Francisco.
Was he in the boy scouts?
When I was it was "berries red go ahead berries white poisonous sight"
KOA ten year ago when you were in college doesn't count as "outdoors experience"
Post by: 280plus on December 05, 2006, 02:00:43 PM
Post by: Mannlicher on December 05, 2006, 02:18:06 PM
Yuppie daddy and mommy should be arrested for child endangerment.
Post by: mfree on December 06, 2006, 04:38:00 AM
Post by: 280plus on December 06, 2006, 04:45:18 AM
Post by: meinbruder on December 06, 2006, 06:59:46 AM
Yea, it's hard to believe anyone with "outdoor experience" would take off and leave his pants in freezing weather.
He supposedly left the car wearing two pair for warmth. I hope it was merely difficult to walk in them and they were abandoned for that reason, but isn't the first indication of hypothermia a sense of warmth and the victim starts removing protective clothing?
Without proper shoes for hiking in snow he should have had very cold feet in about an hour, my first walk in the snow lasted a whole half hour. Once I could feel my toes, we went to the store for proper footwear.
}:)>
Post by: 280plus on December 06, 2006, 08:05:59 AM
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on December 06, 2006, 08:49:25 AM
Post by: Twycross on December 06, 2006, 08:52:41 AM
Sad story, but it's just hard to sympathize with some victims.
Post by: 280plus on December 06, 2006, 10:21:35 AM
Post by: 280plus on December 06, 2006, 10:49:41 AM
By JEFF BARNARD, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 20 minutes ago
MERLIN, Ore. - A missing San Francisco father, who set out on foot during the weekend to find help for his stranded family in Oregon's snowy coastal mountains, left clothing and other items that appeared arranged to guide searchers, officials said Wednesday.
Clothing and bits of an Oregon map turned up Tuesday in a drainage in which search and rescue teams sought James Kim, 35, who has been missing since Saturday when he set out on foot to seek help for his family.
"He is a sharp individual and has a strong will to live," Jackson County Sheriff Mike Winters said. "He has done a heck of a job out there."
The clothing, which was wet, included two gray sweat shirts, a red T-shirt, a sock and a blue girl's skirt, said Lt. Gregg Hastings of the Oregon State Patrol. Family members said Kim had taken the items when he left.
"They were laid out in a well defined area, in a pattern," Hastings said. The pattern led officers to believe that "little signs are being left by James."
Searchers also found a pair of gray pants they believed belonged to Kim. The family said he was wearing the pants over blue jeans when he left.
Teams were trying to resume their search Wednesday, but were hampered by fog which they hoped would lift by midday.
Searchers planned to drop 18 rescue packages containing clothing, emergency gear and other survival provisions into the area Wednesday in hopes that Kim could find one. The packages, clear plastic bags the size of pillows, also contained a note from his family.
Searchers said the packages would be dropped in a 3-square-mile area where "hot spots" showed up two nights earlier in thermal imaging.
"This is frustrating. We are so close," Josephine County Undersheriff Brian Anderson said. "There are people pouring their heart and soul into this. We are not going to quit until we find him."
Temperatures at night in the search area have been dipping below freezing in lower elevations. No precipitation is expected until Friday.
Kim's wife, Kati, and two daughters were rescued Monday at their car, stuck in the snow on a remote road.
When he left the car Saturday, James Kim went about two miles along the road, and then headed down into a drainage area, said Lt. Gregg Hastings of the Oregon State Police.
About 100 rescue workers and four helicopters were searching for Kim, following his footprints down a drainage called Big Windy Creek that leads to the Rogue River.
Anderson said he does not know why Kim went into the drainage area. "I hope to have the opportunity to ask why he did that," he said.
Kim, a senior editor for the technology media company CNET Networks Inc., had two lighters and was wearing tennis shoes, pants and a heavy coat, but no hat, Anderson said. He would likely be within about five miles of the car, he said.
The Kims had been missing since Nov. 25, when they left Portland and headed home after a holiday trip to the Pacific Northwest.
Kati Kim told officers they were traveling south from Portland on Interstate 5 and missed the turnoff to a state highway, Oregon 42, that leads through the Coast Range to Gold Beach, where they planned to stay at a resort.
Officers said the couple used a map to choose the road they were on. "They got the map out a regular highway map that showed the route," Anderson said.
However, it wasn't clear whose map the couple used. The 2005-2007 state highway map distributed by the Oregon Department of Transportation has a warning in red print, inside a red box: "This route closed in winter." A Rand-McNally map did not have a similar warning.
On Monday, searchers in a private helicopter hired by the family spotted Kati Kim, 30, and daughters Penelope, 4, and Sabine, 7 months. They were released from a hospital in Grants Pass on Tuesday.
After leaving Portland on Interstate 5, search leaders said, the couple missed a turnoff that leads to the coast and took a wrong turn on a twisty mountain road they chose as an alternative.
Stuck, they used their car heater until they ran out of gas then burned tires to stay warm and attract attention. With only a few jars of baby food and limited supplies, Kati Kim nursed her children.
The area's complicated road network is commonly used by whitewater rafters on the Rogue River or as a shortcut to the coast in the summer, but it is not plowed in the winter.
Post by: AmbulanceDriver on December 06, 2006, 10:59:15 AM
He was in one of the many drainages that criss cross the area.....
http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_120506_news_missing_family_tues.569404ac.html
Post by: 280plus on December 06, 2006, 11:03:41 AM
Post by: Twycross on December 06, 2006, 11:11:14 AM
Post by: wingnutx on December 06, 2006, 11:12:48 AM
Post by: Marnoot on December 06, 2006, 11:45:32 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,234880,00.html
Post by: meinbruder on December 06, 2006, 12:37:36 PM
Looks like he wandered off (alone, without proper clothing) off the road into some pretty nasty terrain, according to Google Earth. Tragic, but stupid.
The local radio and TV hand wringers are trying to build a case that the state should be held responsible for what happened. It seems the family made a turn, using a map, up a road with a sign reading Oregon Coast (this way) . The roadmap gave no warning about travel conditions.
The problem Im having with this incident is the map. It was described as a standard road map, yet the Kim family traveled up a couple of forest service roads to get to the point they became stranded. He was dropping bits of clothing and fragments of map as he walked; either to guide searchers in or to find his way back. The only maps Ive seen with information about forest service roads are specific to the individual forests and are very nicely detailed. They also clearly state that service roads are not always useable in the winter and should be considered closed.
I have such a map; its for the Tillamook Forest west of Portland. Using it, and some advice from locals, Ive nearly been left stranded on steep gravel roads twice; both times in high summer. The idea of traveling over the service roads in winter for a joy ride is madness.
}:)>
Post by: Matthew Carberry on December 06, 2006, 12:51:47 PM
) do not."In motorcycling we say "dress for the crash, not the weather". In cold areas you dress (or at least have proper gear) for the worst, not the drive.
Some people equate "point out poor choices and individual responsibility" with "blame the victim". it doesn't apply in most scenarios and especially in this case.
Post by: 280plus on December 06, 2006, 01:08:34 PM
Post by: meinbruder on December 06, 2006, 01:44:49 PM
Leaving the car is a debatable question; IMO building a fire would be problematic. I can only describe Tillamook forest but its likely the conditions are very close in Klamath. The last three weeks have seen several snowfalls and at this time of year clouds usually block the sun. There was about a foot of snow total around Browns Camp and Lees Camp, these points are well known in the forest west of Portland. The blanket of snow will take several weeks to melt with current weather conditions and its even been sunny for the last day or so. Squaw wood would be very difficult to find in the snow and anything big enough to make a good fire from would require saws and/or axe to handle.
Contrary to what the tree-huggers would have the world believe, some of the Oregon Forests are thick enough swallow people whole. Every year ambitious hikers leave the roads or trails and spend days lost and hoping for rescue. One or two are never heard from again, the lucky of those are found years later by hunters; in one case a hunter was found with a rifle leaning against the tree next to him, he had been there for three years. Even a defective map is better than none.
}:)>
Post by: 280plus on December 06, 2006, 03:12:00 PM
Of course, on both occasions I was never actually lost, just detained by conditions and minor mishaps.
Post by: 280plus on December 06, 2006, 03:35:31 PM
Post by: Matthew Carberry on December 06, 2006, 03:42:35 PM
Even on the interstate you can be miles from anywhere and hours from help, pavement doesn't equal safety.
I always have a fleece blanket (zips into a bag) and a comprehensive survival kit in the vehicle, in Winter I add a shovel and a pair of decent boots, hat, mittens and coat, even if I'm just driving to and from work in town. Just walking to the gas station can get cold at night in winter.
Preparedness is so easy, to not take basic precautions is not excusable, especially when your family is involved.
Post by: RocketMan on December 06, 2006, 06:42:54 PM
That kind of makes it hard to blame the maps.
Post by: meinbruder on December 06, 2006, 08:14:28 PM
Carebear, Ive been meaning to put together a simple kit for my truck. Just tonight I had to walk a block in the chilly air to reach my appointment. The weather isnt so bad tonight but icy conditions could have been a problem for me. Why no one prominently displays an address on his or her home is a mystery.
Rocketman, I dont watch enough TV to know which channel belongs to the networks. Is that a quote from Mrs. Kim? If so my respect for her husband just dropped like a rock. Truly a shame, men have died trying to save or rescue their family before but not in so foolish a fashion.
}:)>
Post by: RocketMan on December 07, 2006, 04:55:53 AM
That information was not attributed in the story, just listed. Some of the searchers started looking for the Kims where they turned off I-5, so they might be the source.
The Portland ABC affiliate is KATU, channel 2. Their website is katu.com.
Post by: Leatherneck on December 07, 2006, 05:55:02 AM
He never should have left the car; he could have done a number of things to improve their lot.
Why didn't he spend the first days concentrating on getting the car unstuck? Levers, improvised ropes, ramps and hand excavation with sticks can accomplish a lot, with perseverance.
Why didn't he build a fire using natural wood available instead of the tires off his car? One can keep a bonfire going indefinitely, and the smoke from green branches would be visible for miles, as would the thermal signature of the fire.
There are edible things in the woods if you know what to look for.
Why did he discard his clothes facing hypothermia? Why not use crossed sticks or stone cairns to blaze his trail?
Sad. So sad.
TC
Post by: Matthew Carberry on December 07, 2006, 09:25:33 AM
I was a Cub Scout, I grew up in Alaska, my Dad took me camping, my Mom always had extra clothes for us in the car, I was in the Marines... I had all these opportunities to learn these things, the basic skills of planning and woodcraft.
But the more I think about it, a lot of this stuff I was not just "shown", I also "read".
In the outdoors section of the paper, in even half-assed researched novels and stories, in "Field and Stream" or "Outside" magazine ad nauseum.
There's no excuse for being so ignorant. Anyone, literate and moderately well read, should absorb this kkind of thing if only on a "that'd be handy to know" level. Anyone who can plan a trip should be able to think of a list of stuff to bring that covers realistic negative contingencies.
I noticed in one news sites (MSNBC I think) "winter safety" list of things to keep in the car the mention using floor mats to keep warm, but not to bring warm clothes and appropriate footwear.
That alone, in those conditions, could have let the guy walk out, uncomfortable but alive.
People, even intelligent people, just don't THINK anymore.
Post by: 280plus on December 07, 2006, 10:08:38 AM
Post by: 280plus on December 07, 2006, 10:54:31 AM
Knowing me, I woulda been so mad I woulda started the fire with the cellphone.
Post by: Cosmoline on December 07, 2006, 11:17:37 AM
Quote
If I'm going into the woods I swing by the USGS for a topographic.
Even those can be trouble. They're OK as far as showing where the mountains are and navigating around them, but they're notorious for being out of date as far as man-made features. I remember using a USGS to hike into the Cougar Reservoir area. The road they showed going up to the res had actually been shut down decades before, and we came face to face with the earthen dam itself! No road up, so we had to climb.
The area he was in is similar to certain ranges in Idaho. Very rugged, with lots of very steep valleys and old logging roads leading from nowhere to nowhere. What appears to be ground covered by light underbrush can turn out to be scree covered by six foot high brambles. You can't see your hands, let alone your feet. He should have simply gone back on the road instead of trying for a shortcut.
Post by: meinbruder on December 07, 2006, 12:14:12 PM
Rest In Peace Mr. Kim.
}:)>
Post by: gunsmith on December 07, 2006, 03:30:27 PM
I would have siphoned some of the gas to make a bonfire.
When I was in my 20's (about a million years ago)
I was camping with some hippies at a "rainbow gathering"
The theme at these things is anti to electricity and technology
so they couldn't keep the fire going due to a 3 day downpour.
Remembering a story I read about Daniel Boone as a kid
I went around and got dry firewood from the lower branches of the trees, something I'm sure could have been done in Oregon.
I throw Bradford's Angiers book "how to stay alive in the woods" in my truck during long distance trips.
My guess he was one of those types of people who refuse to consider these things as important.
There are a lot of people like him out there.
Post by: 280plus on December 07, 2006, 04:15:18 PM
Post by: Desertdog on December 07, 2006, 05:57:35 PM
They are not the first, and won't be the last, to take the wrong road and end up in a desperate situation.
The question will always be in a situation like this; Do we wait or walk out?
Only a few people will be properly equipted to survive for an extended period in a situation like this, and even fewer from an area where this type of weather is unknown normally.
Post by: LadySmith on December 07, 2006, 11:34:19 PM
I heard on the radio that he & his wife "guestimated" from a map that the nearest town was only 4 miles away. It was 15. Poor guy.
Post by: 280plus on December 08, 2006, 03:54:25 AM
Good point on the wait or go. I'd say if you know where you are, you know how to get where you're going and it's not overly far, you go. Otherwise stay. The decision has to be made immediately I'd say. Don't wait till your already half frozen and starved before you set out.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on December 08, 2006, 04:06:18 AM
Yeah, it's impressive that he managed to travel 8 miles before succumbing. It woulda been more impressive if he'd stayed put for a couple of days and survived.
Post by: Ron on December 08, 2006, 04:26:20 AM
He was probably seriously dehydrated and didn't even know it. Not to mention no food = no calories to burn in the internal furnace.
Unfortunately we all (I hope) learn from his mistake.
Post by: 280plus on December 08, 2006, 04:37:04 AM
Post by: meinbruder on December 08, 2006, 03:04:56 PM
If you have water and shelter where you are, and if you're in an easy area for rescuers to locate you, then it's generally a stupid idea to leave.
Yeah, it's impressive that he managed to travel 8 miles before succumbing. It woulda been more impressive if he'd stayed put for a couple of days and survived.
Yeah, it's impressive that he managed to travel 8 miles before succumbing. It woulda been more impressive if he'd stayed put for a couple of days and survived.
There were a couple of interesting comments today on the radio. The autopsy indicated that he had been dead for two days before being found. That would indicate he stayed with the car for four or five days. I suppose they hoped for rescue and he went looking for help in desperation.
He was supposedly found in line of sight of some sort of privately owned hunting lodge. I wonder if he knew it was there and tried to get in? I'll be curious to hear more detail on the lodge.
}:)>
Post by: 280plus on December 08, 2006, 05:18:33 PM
Post by: Ron on December 08, 2006, 05:19:56 PM
http://www.layoutscene.com/james-kim-path/index.html
Post by: Ron on December 08, 2006, 05:22:11 PM
Post by: Cosmoline on December 08, 2006, 05:42:07 PM
Post by: gunsmith on December 08, 2006, 07:49:02 PM
I bet if you used the car somehow to move the tree there would be plenty of disgusting crawling things
to roast and eat.
What is that green stuff that grows on the south side of trees? It probably doe not taste good but you can most likely eat it.
Are there birds of prey in the Oregon wilderness? why not steal a squirrel from a nearby hawk?
A coyote or a fox is no match for a grown man, I'd take their food too.
there had to something around there, birds,bugs,squirrels,all those down trees are probably filled with bugs.
"A good rule is not to pass up any reasonable food sources if we are ever in need. There are many dead men who, through ignorance or fastidiousness did"
Bradford Angier, How To Stay Alive In The Woods
Post by: Hawkmoon on December 10, 2006, 06:24:08 PM
I remarried a few years ago. My hobby is Jeeps and all my vehicles since 1988 have been either Jeep Cherokees or Jeep Comanche pickups. I made it a point to equip each vehicle with a small emergency tool kit, and some basic survival stuff, such as a wool blanket, a couple of "space" blankets, first aid kit, survival knife, etc. When I remarried, I turned the newest Cherokee over to my new wife and I kept on driving Old faithful. The first thing my wife did was to remove ALL the emergency and survival gear from the Jeep because it didn't look "neat."
Then we went to visit her family in South America. Picked up a used Kia Sportage to get around in down there. So we set off, in a USED vehicle of unknown condition, for an 1800 mile trip across a freakin' desert -- and she refused to let me pack a quart of oil or a gallon of water! Guess what used vehicle broke down in the freakin' desert before the end of the first day?