Burn the Flag, Get 15 years in Prison.

[makattak]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/iowa-lgbtq-flag-fire-church-prison

If it's an LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ Flag.

Gee, I thought flag burning was an act of free speech....

[Ben]

Unless there's a lot more to this story, that's a ridiculous sentence, especially having observed the degradation the US flag has been dragged through.

[dogmush]

This is why "hate crimes" are bullshit.  It's not worse because he holds unpopular views.

[makattak]

Let's compare the results of this trial ↑, done against no specific person to the results of this arrest ↓:

https://kjzz.com/news/local/exclusive-wwii-veterans-flag-barbecued-by-angry-ex-boyfriend-wyoming-family-says

Man stole his ex-wife (ex-girlfriend's?) flag from her father's coffin and burned it. Videoing it in order to taunt them.


I'm going to be he gets a LOT less than 15 years.

[cordex]

The guy stole something of minor value, possibly made threats, and set the flag on fire outside an occupied business.  Definitely worthy of criminal penalties, but 16 years seems excessive.

[WLJ]

People have gotten way less for murder

[Pb]

People have gotten way less for murder

Oh yes!

[AZRedhawk44]

I've got a far bigger problem with the theft of the property to be burned, than the burning of that object as a statement.

Buy your own rainbow flag if you want to burn it.

[Ben]

I've got a far bigger problem with the theft

And again, given the info provided, theft/property destruction should have been the punishment. What's the usual punishment (for what appears to be a first offense) for stealing a $20 item?

[makattak]

And again, given the info provided, theft/property destruction should have been the punishment. What's the usual punishment (for what appears to be a first offense) for stealing a $20 item?

From the Des Moines Register (which I sadly clicked because I no longer wish to give them even that much revenue from a single click), the perpetrator here had a record (two previous felonies), so the number of years in prison were apparently tripled. A first time offender would have only gotten 6 years. Which also seems rather much.

[Ben]

From the Des Moines Register (which I sadly clicked because I no longer wish to give them even that much revenue from a single click), the perpetrator here had a record (two previous felonies), so the number of years in prison were apparently tripled. A first time offender would have only gotten 6 years. Which also seems rather much.

Okay, in that case pokey time is possibly appropriate* because he's a knucklehead. But even then, 15 years is pretty outrageous.


* Wearing my IANAL hat, I would think a first offense would be restitution and probation or picking up trash for a few weekends or something. So I wonder, as a "hate crime" what the punishment would have been for someone with no previous criminal record? I agree with Dogmush that "hate crimes" are bullshit. My thought has always been, what about the 'non-protected" person who was hurt/assaulted/murdered? "Hate crime" penalties have always seemed to me to be an "FU" to them.

[WLJ]

This is why "hate crimes" are bullshit.  It's not worse because he holds unpopular views.

Because Hate Murder is far worst than Like Murder

[MechAg94]

Is arson even an appropriate charge in a case like this?  I thought that normally applied to structures. 

[HankB]

The burning of an LGBTQEIEIO flag should have ONLY been charged as petty theft (it wasn't his flag) and (perhaps) something related to careless setting of a fire. Even with a prior record, 15 years seems unconstitutionally excessive.

As a juror, I would NEVER convict someone of a "hate crime" - it's just too Orwellian for me. And it's not necessary. Consider the 1998 case of James Byrd, a black man murdered in Texas by being dragged behind a pickup. Texas caught the 3 people involved, charged them, tried them, and convicted them of murder.

One of the perps is in protective custody spending 23 hours a day in an 8' x 6' prison cell and won't get a parole hearing until 2038. (Unlikely a parole board will release him.) The other two have been executed. This was done WITHOUT any "hate crime" charges.

[AZRedhawk44]

I can see grounds for considering it arson, and/or assault, if the flag was set fire to in a way that it could cause another structure to also burn (while being wary of prosecutorial manufacturing of mountains from molehills).  Also, if it was burned in effigy, perhaps draped as a cloak over a likeness of a particular person or stereotype of a type of people.

If text accompanied that said "all gays deserve burning" or similar while being done in front of a gay support group or deliberately gay function, I could see it being interpreted as assault even without arson.

Burning the flag alone, on a driveway or similar noncombustible surface, and without theft, it's just an act of speech.  To me at least.  It reads more as a strike against special interest politics, than an act of aggression.

[brimic]

I never thought I'd see the day where its a serious crime to burn a meme flag.
Theft, yes. Arson, maybe...

[Perd Hapley]

So those who display the rainbow flag are going all-out civil disobedience in defense of this non-conformist, right?

I'll just sit back and wait to hear about those Stonewall-style riots.

[MechAg94]

I can see grounds for considering it arson, and/or assault, if the flag was set fire to in a way that it could cause another structure to also burn (while being wary of prosecutorial manufacturing of mountains from molehills).  Also, if it was burned in effigy, perhaps draped as a cloak over a likeness of a particular person or stereotype of a type of people.

If text accompanied that said "all gays deserve burning" or similar while being done in front of a gay support group or deliberately gay function, I could see it being interpreted as assault even without arson.

Burning the flag alone, on a driveway or similar noncombustible surface, and without theft, it's just an act of speech.  To me at least.  It reads more as a strike against special interest politics, than an act of aggression.

Free speech grounds should be part of his appeal.