Author Topic: 787 First Flight (Read 5630 times)

Unisaw · « **on:** December 15, 2009, 01:24:16 PM »

I'm watching live on TV as a Boeing 787 taxis out for its first flight. Let's keep our fingers crossed -- this is a huge deal for the Puget Sound area.

There is something strung on a cable from the top rear of the rudder. I'm guessing this is some type of supplemental test instrumentation. If anyone knows, please let us know.

AJ Dual · « **Reply #1 on:** December 15, 2009, 03:08:31 PM »

Quote from: Unisaw on December 15, 2009, 01:24:16 PM

There is something strung on a cable from the top rear of the rudder. I'm guessing this is some type of supplemental test instrumentation. If anyone knows, please let us know.

Extension cord, the APU design hasn't been finalized just yet.

Northwoods · « **Reply #2 on:** December 15, 2009, 03:16:41 PM »

I'm just wondering how long it'll be before they start calling all the contractors in the Puget Sound to come back and fix all the problems on the thing.

Tallpine · « **Reply #3 on:** December 15, 2009, 04:00:31 PM »

Quote from: sumpnz on December 15, 2009, 03:16:41 PM

I'm just wondering how long it'll be before they start calling all the contractors in the Puget Sound to come back and fix all the problems on the thing.

That would be nice. Maybe I can go back to work, then?

Not so nice, though - if the problem leads to a smoking hole in the ground

AmbulanceDriver · « **Reply #4 on:** December 15, 2009, 04:35:02 PM »

Quote from: AJ Dual on December 15, 2009, 03:08:31 PM

Extension cord, the APU design hasn't been finalized just yet.

Comments like that *REALLY* need a beverage warning. Thankfully, I'd just swallowed prior to reading it.

Standing Wolf · « **Reply #5 on:** December 15, 2009, 08:39:20 PM »

Quote

Extension cord, the APU design hasn't been finalized just yet.

I don't even know what "APU" stands for, but it got a laugh out of me.

RocketMan · « **Reply #6 on:** December 15, 2009, 08:43:37 PM »

"APU" is the acronym for All Push Up.

Video of the takeoff and landing can be seen here. What really impressed me is that Boeing still uses a couple of T-33's as chase planes. They are visible in two of the videos.
I know they had an F-86 some years back. I wonder if that one is still around.

eta: Look at the upward flex in the wings. Very impressive. I wonder if that is a result of the composite construction, as there seems to be more flex as compared to mostly aluminum constructed aircraft.

Northwoods · « **Reply #7 on:** December 15, 2009, 09:06:26 PM »

Carbon fiber has 3-4 times the stiffness of aluminum, so it's not simply becuase of the material change. I know they did design it to have that large flex to wings. Because of the higher stiffness of the material I think they did that in large part to smooth out the ride. That and the curvature I think also helps to reduce drag, but I'm not positive on that one.

Gewehr98 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 15, 2009, 09:18:48 PM »

Quote

There is something strung on a cable from the top rear of the rudder. I'm guessing this is some type of supplemental test instrumentation. If anyone knows, please let us know.

Yup. Data drogue. You saw it before trailing behind the prototype B-2 bomber, amongst other airframes.

That wing flex reminds me of the B-47. The wing sweep and very subtle shape of the winglets add to the effect, I'm sure.

MillCreek · « **Reply #9 on:** December 15, 2009, 09:33:12 PM »

Quote from: Unisaw on December 15, 2009, 01:24:16 PM

I'm watching live on TV as a Boeing 787 taxis out for its first flight. Let's keep our fingers crossed -- this is a huge deal for the Puget Sound area.

There is something strung on a cable from the top rear of the rudder. I'm guessing this is some type of supplemental test instrumentation. If anyone knows, please let us know.

My Dad was an aeronautical engineer at Boeing for 40 years. If I remember correctly what he told me, it is an airspeed indicator that operates even with a complete loss of electrical power.

Boomhauer · « **Reply #10 on:** December 15, 2009, 09:37:49 PM »

Quote from: Standing Wolf on December 15, 2009, 08:39:20 PM

I don't even know what "APU" stands for, but it got a laugh out of me.

APU= auxillery power unit. A smaller engine in an aircraft that is used to power the systems when the main engines are shut down, often also provides power to start the main engines. Also may serve as emergency power in an aircraft if one of the main engines goes offline.

Also found on other vehicles, including commercial trucks.

Quote from: MillCreek on December 15, 2009, 09:33:12 PM

My Dad was an aeronautical engineer at Boeing for 40 years. If I remember correctly what he told me, it is an airspeed indicator that operates even with a complete loss of electrical power.

IIRC, 787 is completely electric and uses fly by wire. If they completely lose electrical power, they are screwed.

RocketMan · « **Reply #11 on:** December 15, 2009, 09:39:32 PM »

Avenger29, you took all the fun out of it. I actually had him fooled for awhile, dontcha know.

Standing Wolf · « **Reply #12 on:** December 15, 2009, 10:23:28 PM »

Okay. I give up. Why to the ends of the wings angle upward?

Boomhauer · « **Reply #13 on:** December 15, 2009, 10:26:56 PM »

Quote from: Standing Wolf on December 15, 2009, 10:23:28 PM

Okay. I give up. Why to the ends of the wings angle upward?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_device

Quote

Wingtip devices are usually intended to improve the efficiency of fixed-wing aircraft.[1] There are several types of wingtip devices, and though they function in different manners, the intended effect is always to reduce the aircraft's drag by altering the airflow near the wingtips. Wingtip devices can also improve aircraft handling characteristics and enhance safety for following aircraft. Such devices increase the effective aspect ratio of a wing without materially increasing the wingspan. An extension of span would lower lift-induced drag, but would increase parasitic drag and would require boosting the strength

drewtam · « **Reply #14 on:** December 15, 2009, 10:47:30 PM »

Works to improve efficiency. A shroud on a fan (radiator) has the same efficiency boosting effects. In flight, efficiency = less drag = better fuel economy, and faster speeds

Sergeant Bob · « **Reply #15 on:** December 16, 2009, 12:34:22 AM »

Quote from: Gewehr98 on December 15, 2009, 09:18:48 PM

That wing flex reminds me of the B-47. The wing sweep and very subtle shape of the winglets add to the effect, I'm sure.

I'd figure you would know a bit about wing flex, being a former BUFF driver.

Jimmy Dean · « **Reply #16 on:** December 16, 2009, 02:28:45 AM »

Ex USAF maint guy here, was showin the video to a buddy of mine here at college I was commenting on the amount of wingsweep, said it looked like a lot more than the BUFFs have (he lived in Shreveport-Bossier, so he saw them flying all the time)

crt360 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 16, 2009, 02:53:29 AM »

That was some wing flex.

I thought it was going to start flapping like a bird.

Leatherneck · « **Reply #18 on:** December 16, 2009, 05:06:57 AM »

Quote

Yup. Data drogue.

Kind of. Actually the cone on the end shields a static pressure transducer. It's the best place to measure true static pressure (which translates to pressure altitude) in order to calibrate the plane's pitot-static system and get true airspeed and altitude free of body dynamics. Ancient, but valid, flight testing technique.

TC

slugcatcher · « **Reply #19 on:** December 16, 2009, 08:35:41 AM »

So what makes the 787 so much better than everything else?

MillCreek · « **Reply #20 on:** December 16, 2009, 08:42:32 AM »

From an article in the Everett Herald this morning: http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20091216/NEWS01/712169860#Pilots.packed.a.lot.into.3.hours

But not everything went off without a hitch. Monroe-resident Dennis Eckert was listening to a scanner monitoring the Boeing radio frequency during the flight and reported that the pilots had to put an anti-icing system into manual mode at one point.

He added that early in the flight, radio conversations revealed Neville had to reset the circuit breakers after a cone didn’t automatically deploy behind the aircraft. Cones are generally used for monitoring airspeed, and can be deployed manually.

HankB · « **Reply #21 on:** December 16, 2009, 08:51:03 AM »

Quote from: slugcatcher on December 16, 2009, 08:35:41 AM

So what makes the 787 so much better than everything else?

Marketing.

Seriously, it's supposed to be 20% more fuel-efficient, have larger windows for the passengers to look out, and better cabin ventilation; not really a major leap forward (like Boeing's cancelled Sonic Cruiser, which was actually subsonic) but an aircraft targeted to the #1, big-time, all-important overwhelming priority of the airlines: reduced operating cost.

This aircraft design was driven by the Six Sigma ~~manufacturing and design philosophy~~ religion of Boeing's new CEO, which led them to do things like build a factory in Russia to make titanium forgings and outsource many of the components - as well as a good part of the design - to ~~cheaper~~ alternative manufacturers . . . hence the delays and rumored cost over-runs.

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #22 on:** December 16, 2009, 09:10:35 AM »

So, by how much is the new plane expected to reduce operating costs?

Inquiring minds want to know.

MillCreek · « **Reply #23 on:** December 16, 2009, 09:29:50 AM »

Quote from: HankB on December 16, 2009, 08:51:03 AM

This aircraft design was driven by the Six Sigma ~~manufacturing and design philosophy~~ religion of Boeing's new CEO, which led them to do things like build a factory in Russia to make titanium forgings and outsource many of the components - as well as a good part of the design - to ~~cheaper~~ alternative manufacturers . . . hence the delays and rumored cost over-runs.

And now Boeing has opened a second 787 assembly line in South Carolina to take advantage of the cheaper labor and more favorable labor climate there, as opposed to Everett.

Tallpine · « **Reply #24 on:** December 16, 2009, 10:19:06 AM »

Quote

IIRC, 787 is completely electric and uses fly by wire. If they completely lose electrical power, they are screwed.

Pretty much - at least the instrumentation is totally dependent on the power supply.

I worked on the power supply project for a while - in fact I had one of the control units sitting on a table in my home office for about a year. Part of the power supply loop is battery backup, assuming the control unit works right.

News:

Author Topic: 787 First Flight (Read 5630 times)