Author Topic: Half of all children are below average in intelligence: Education & Intelligence  (Read 7830 times)

Jamisjockey

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Subj A:  Me
Subj B:  My younger brother.
We were both tested, and I scored quite high....my brother bested me by 10ish points and is two years younger....yet we are both chronic underachievers.  I did manage to finally gain momentum as an adult, but my brother continues to underachieve.....

What the author fails to point out is that I really doubt the Intelligence ratio in other industrialized countries is much different, yet academically we are falling further and further behind.....raise the standards, damnit!
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griz

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Getting back to the article, here is a question about his facts.  Ive read that well over half of high school graduates are functionally illiterate.  They can read the words, but cant put them together to get the meaning.  From that I would conclude that our schools are doing a much worse job teaching kids, unless the rate of illiteracy has always been that high.  Does anyone know if the rate has increased or stayed the same?
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richyoung

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Kind of off-topic, but I'm curious: Has anyone here ever taken a real IQ test?

Tested as a kid, but parents wouldn't tell me the results.  Quickie on-line IQ tests return a value of 156 - 168 on me, borederline "super genius" - if they can be trusted.
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roo_ster

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Kind of off-topic, but I'm curious: Has anyone here ever taken a real IQ test?
Yep, to get into the "Enhanced Learning Program" (ELP) in the Pinellas County School District.  I was not told my score.  Back then, as a kid, I thought of ELP as "hELP, they are drowning me in more school work!"

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Today's simple truth: Half of all children are below average in intelligence. We do not live in Lake Wobegon.

I don't mean to be a stick in the mud, but...

Wouldn't it be true that half of all children are below median in intelligence, and not necessarily true that half of all children are below average in intelligence???
TaxPhd nailed it.

Has anybody seen the movie Idiocracy? Pretty funny movie about the dumbing down of society.
Directed by Mike Judge who did Office Space and Beavis and Butthead.
I loved that flick.  The opening scene with the yuppie couple vs Clevon & his women was priceless.

I scored 145 on the Weschler test at age 19.  11 years later and I'm still squandering my Mensa dues on bullets and bourbon.
"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
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roo_ster

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CAnnoneer

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Our educational system is even more commie than the commies'. At least they eventually established prestigious highschools with entry exams, which separated the achievers from the underachievers and thus allowed everybody to progress furthest towards their maximal potential. By contrast, this liberal populist feel-good nonsense about leaving nobody behind inevitably ensures underachievement for the achievers. Moreover, IMO underachievers do WORSE under this system than under a hierarchic one. Finally, I bet teachers waste a disproportionate amount of resources on dragging "hard cases", while essentially ignoring kids that would do much better with a bit of help. It is hard to imagine a more damaging and less efficient system. And it all stems from fundamentally flawed liberal ideas.

As far as IQ tests go, IMO they are a useful measure of ability but are not perfect and do not really measure "natural intelligence". A simple proof of that statement is the known fact that people get higher scores after a bit of experience with the kind of questions asked. Also, people do significantly better after good schooling in critical reasoning, algebra, and geometry. This comes to show acquired ability on top of natural "horsepower". Further, some of the hardest questions ultimately have multiple acceptable solutions, depending on what symmetries are seen by different people. One symmetry is not necessarily superior to another, but the creator of the test chose one instead of the other, and so you may or may not get credited for it.

I am a good example of the above. As a kid (maybe 5th grade) I scored 135 the first time I even saw an IQ test. Now I score 150. Did I somehow get more "naturally intelligent"? Nah, just an addition of many many years of good schooling, mental exercise, and of accrued experience. What prevents me now from getting better scores is answering a few questions (usually 2 or 3) with alternative solutions that were not considered valid by the test creator. Sometimes mine seem more "advanced", sometimes not.

MENSA? Maybe a good way to pick up smart chicks. I might join someday just for that. Hehehe.

Werewolf

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Quote
Today's simple truth: Half of all children are below average in intelligence. We do not live in Lake Wobegon.

I don't mean to be a stick in the mud, but...

Wouldn't it be true that half of all children are below median in intelligence, and not necessarily true that half of all children are below average in intelligence???
Aren't median and average the same thing? What I take from it is that it means the OTHER half of all kids are above average. Don't it?  grin

Median and average are not the same thing. The median point is the number that says that half of the population is greater and half is smaller. The average (arithmetic mean) is defined as the sum of the data divided by the number of data points.

If a population distribution is symetric then the mean and median will in fact be the same number. In real life the normal distribution pretty much defines any large population and the normal distribution is symetric and thus the mean and median are pretty much the same. There are however naturally occuring non-symetric distributions where the mean and median are not the same. The most common are highly skewed or bimodal distributions though some bimodal distributions can be symetric most naturally occuring ones are not.

Headless Thompson Gunner is right that half of the children must by definition be below the median IQ. However, the population of human beings and their IQ's is very, very large and is (surprise) distributed normally which in essence means that for IQ's the mean and median are the same. Thus for humans at least the average IQ and the median IQ are the same but that is a function of the fact that IQ's are normally distributed. If human IQ's were not normally distributed or the distribution was bimodal or highly skewed then the mean and median wouldn't be the same and the average could be lower or higher than the median thus the second half of HTG's statement is one of those maybe's.

Regarding IQ tests: 100 is defined as the mean. In the past 50 or so years that 100 has been sliding to the left. Why? Who knows but adjustments have been made to the SAT scoring system which validate the leftward slide. Are our children and grandchildren dumber than us? Again, who knows. If I had to guess since IQ tests mostly depend on the ability to read well, vocabulary, mathematics and solving problems defined with words that the leftward slide is primarily due to an education system that now teaches to the lowest common denominator vice the highest. Can't have the dummies feeling bad about themselves because they can't add two and two together and get 4 twice in a row. Thus no matter how high one's native intelligence is if they do not have the fundamental tools necessary to understand the test they cannot do well on it.
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Otherguy Overby

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Busted on an IQ test...
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2007, 09:59:47 AM »

When I was a kid, in (probably) 4th grade they decided to give us one of the first IQ tests for students.  When they got the results back, someone freaked.  The school administration started an investigation to see how I'd cheated on the test.  They talked with all my classmates, interviewed the other parents in my neighborhood and whoever else they could think of.  We'd never had these tests before, and there really wasn't any way for a student to cheat on the test, but they were convinced I'd cheated somehow because of my score.  This was back in the 50's before easily generated random numbers.  It was a multiple choice test and I never did tell them there was a pattern to the answers...
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Matthew Carberry

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This was back in the 50's before easily generated random numbers.  It was a multiple choice test and I never did tell them there was a pattern to the answers...

That earns a bit of a score right there.
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Cosmoline

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I've know two true geniuses in my life.  Both had scores off the charts, a near photographic memory and IQ's over 160.  One is still in his parent's basement at 37 (I kid you not) and the other is living in a hut off grid on welfare.  I don't think IQ means much beyond a point. 

Perd Hapley

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It is pretty funny to see all of you bragging about your high IQs.   laugh  I'd brag, too, but I have no idea what mine is. 

Griz, methinks you've been taken in.  It's hard to believe the literacy rate is that low. 
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cosine

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It is pretty funny to see all of you bragging about your high IQs.   laugh  I'd brag, too, but I have no idea what mine is. 

Griz, methinks you've been taken in.  It's hard to believe the literacy rate is that low. 

Hey, can I jump on the brag wagon too?  grin Supposedly, according to those online IQ tests (yeah, they're a real accurate test of IQ  rolleyes) I have an IQ of about 130. Supposedly, that too corresponds closely to my ACT score of 30, which I've seen correlated to an IQ of about 128.

Okay, I'm jumping off the brag wagon now.


Trust me, I am nowhere near that smart. Just about everyone around me is more intelligent than me. Heck, I watch you guys argue over all sorts of topic here and I just try to sit back and learn, 'cause there is no way I can keep up with most of you. 



Otherguy, what you did was smart. grin
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Hey, Mensa is good for something... Great trivia contest nights... It's all about who has the best food and drink at the table, and occasionally one wins something...
 
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Perd Hapley

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ACT score of 30,

Ooh, ooh!  Now I can brag too!  31!  31!
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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If we can ignore the bragging aspect, I think it would be interesting to get a feel for the general IQ level of everyone here.  I bet we'd find that as a community we average significantly higher than the average of the general population.

http://www.iqtest.com/index.html
131 for yours truly.

Werewolf

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Mensa.... where's the barf ICON?

My brother dragged me into it when I was about 19 or so. Got in went to two meetings and never went again.

Now I can't judge the whole group based on the members of the San Antonio, TX group in 1971 but hanging out with a bunch of people who sit around stroking each other's egos and puttin' down all the folks not in Mensa seemed like a waste of good beer drinkin' time to me.
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cosine

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If we can ignore the bragging aspect, I think it would be interesting to get a feel for the general IQ level of everyone here.  I bet we'd find that as a community we average significantly higher than the average of the general population.

http://www.iqtest.com/index.html
131 for yours truly.

Okay, I took the test. 138, for what it's worth.
Andy

Matthew Carberry

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Obviously WE should be running Springfield!

http://www.thesimpsons.com/episode_guide/1022.htm

 grin
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

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Lee

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I've always wondered how Einstein or Edison would have scored on an IQ test, had they been raised in Sub Saharan Africa.  How would've they compared to the average 7 year old raised in Boston?  Is Bill Gates a genius? Hugh Hefner? Was Henry Ford? Is my plumber...who is far richer than me?  Does it matter?

Matthew Carberry

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Positing that someone illiterate wouldn't score well on an IQ test is a straw man.

Presumably, if you cannot learn to read (as opposed to just haven't had the opportunity) you weren't going to score well anyway; whereas, if you are given the opportunity to test and have the ability to learn to read, you will have as good a chance to score accurately as anyone else. 

Assuming a well-constructed test.
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roo_ster

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They have crafted tests for folks who have not had the opportunity to learn how to read, been exposed to modernity, etc.
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roo_ster

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Cosmoline

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It does disturb me that ACT, LSAT and other entrance exams correspond so closely with IQ tests.  My LSAT of 162 corresponds to the high end of the range I usually get on IQ tests.  I've gotten those same scores since I was young.  So basically I got a leg up on law school based on nothing but a glorified IQ test.  The subject area GRE tests that include substantive knowledge seem a lot more reasonable.  It also makes me wonder why they don't just use IQ scores and test students for half an hour with no prep instead of running them through an expensive and lengthy test in addition to length preparation periods.

Dannyboy

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There has to be something off about that online IQ test.  I've never taken a real one and that was the first of any kind that I have taken and I got a 143.  I'm not an idiot but, by no means, am I "gifted."
Oh, Lord, please let me be as sanctimonious and self-righteous as those around me, so that I may fit in.

cosine

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There has to be something off about that online IQ test.  I've never taken a real one and that was the first of any kind that I have taken and I got a 143.  I'm not an idiot but, by no means, am I "gifted."

So many of these online IQ tests are like businesses hawking something and I've always wondered if they figure that the more they flatter you the more likely you are to hand over your credit card number for the Full and Complete IQ Score and Test Key! Only $x.xx!

I'm just a little bit skeptical.
Andy

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[/Will Sonnet]That ain't braggin', that's just fact.[/Will Sonnet]  cheesy

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/guns_of_will_sonnett_first_season/

I took an online and it correlated exactly to the 131 I got when I tested in HS. But that doesn't mean they aren't trying to sell you something. In the case of the one I took it was the complete workup on what the test tells me. Unfortunately for them, I didn't care.  grin

A high IQ doesn't hurt but if there's no motivation included your just as inclined to drink beer and watch TV as the next guy.  In a much more intelligent manner, of course.  cheesy

I also agree the average intelligence is higher here. That's one of the reasons I like this place. It's always good to banter with smart folk.

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Bogie

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Low 150s here.
 
Got dragged to a Mensa thing in college. Leader was a math prof. Made sure that everyone knew he was super intelligent. He was a very immense bore.
 
One of the smartest (guessing 180+) guys I know teaches theater in a private high school, does the occasional commercial, used to tend bar nights to make ends meet, and you'd never know by talking with him for just a minute or two...
 
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