Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: xavier fremboe on February 12, 2010, 03:55:08 PM
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Heard an interview with Glenn Reynolds (instapundit) the other day, and he classifies himself as a libertarian transhumanist. Thought it might be an interesting idea to explore and was curious who would be for/agin it. No better forum for things like this than here. Here's the lead-in for the wikipedia post for transhumanism
Transhumanism is an international intellectual and cultural movement supporting the use of science and technology to improve human mental and physical characteristics and capacities. The movement regards aspects of the human condition, such as disability, suffering, disease, aging, and involuntary death as unnecessary and undesirable. Transhumanists look to biotechnologies and other emerging technologies for these purposes. Dangers, as well as benefits, are also of concern to the transhumanist movement.[1]
The term "transhumanism" is symbolized by H+ or h+ and is often used as a synonym for "human enhancement".[2] Although the first known use of the term dates from 1957, the contemporary meaning is a product of the 1980s when futurists in the United States began to organize what has since grown into the transhumanist movement. Transhumanist thinkers predict that human beings may eventually be able to transform themselves into beings with such greatly expanded abilities as to merit the label "posthuman".[1] Transhumanism is therefore sometimes referred to as "posthumanism" or a form of transformational activism influenced by posthumanist ideals.[3]
The transhumanist vision of a transformed future humanity has attracted many supporters and detractors from a wide range of perspectives. Transhumanism has been described by one critic, Francis Fukuyama, as the world's most dangerous idea,[4] while one proponent, Ronald Bailey, counters that it is the "movement that epitomizes the most daring, courageous, imaginative, and idealistic aspirations of humanity".[5]
Obviously there are several grey areas ethically, but assuming it was technologically possible, would you? What say ye?
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I'm already better than 95% of humanity. =D Don't need to go messing with that, to get a leg up on the competition. :angel:
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I don't get the point of claiming to belong to a social movement that is based on the idea of embracing something that doesn't exist, particularly when we don't know if it will ever exist or what forms it will take.
Maybe I just don't understand what he's talking about.
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I suppose the Borg would qualify as "transhumanist".
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I suppose the Borg would qualify as "transhumanist".
Taken to an obscene extreme, yes, I would say they are.
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Transhumanism is an international intellectual and cultural movement supporting the use of science and technology to improve human mental and physical characteristics and capacities
Would that include stuff like breast implants?
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Given the track record for rock-solid security that most advanced technology has had, the very idea of implanting something into the body were a malfunction (or, worse, a malicious exploit) can directly affect the wetware...
~ That is a neural lace, it informed her. ~ A more exquisite and economical method of torturing creatures such as yourself has yet to be invented.
No. Not for me, thanks.
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Depends on the side effects.
I drink coffee in the morning to enhance my performance at work...but it is well tested with limited side effects for moderate, long term use.
I don't take cocaine though, because even though it is a performance enhancer it has negative side effects.
So, if the drug has a good case history and the benefits outweigh the risks, sure, I would take it.
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Yeah....Are we talking about clothes, or things like compression garments for cyclists and runner, or eyeglasses, or pacemakers/artificial heart valves, or special prosthetics designed to turned the liability of a missing limb into an asset (to a degree--I'm thinking of those springy blade-shaped prostheses for amputees who run), or laser eye surgery, or any kind of surgery involving an implanted device, or all of the above?
In those cases, almost all people are in favor. In more extreme cases, we're back to the speculative.
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I don't get the point of claiming to belong to a social movement that is based on the idea of embracing something that doesn't exist, particularly when we don't know if it will ever exist or what forms it will take.
Maybe I just don't understand what he's talking about.
That is sort of what I was thinking. I don't know what some future tech will involve, what it will look like, or what vulnerabilities it will have.
I also don't want to be first. :)
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Obviously there are several grey areas ethically, but assuming it was technologically possible, would you? What say ye?
Here in PA, we already have mad engineers that have worked out how to get monkeys to use robotic limbs by direct neural control. No comment on vicious rumors that the PA National Guard will be deploying these augmented simians to "bring democracy" to NJ.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4275245.stm
Dean Kamen has his own very decent tech he's working on:
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/05/dean-kamens-rob/
A lot of stuff is technically possible now. Ironing out the bugs and getting it into regular production takes quite a while.
Given the track record for rock-solid security that most advanced technology has had, the very idea of implanting something into the body were a malfunction (or, worse, a malicious exploit) can directly affect the wetware...
No. Not for me, thanks.
::gigglesnort:: Security concerns? What security concerns?
I'm just giggling at the mental image of gaining legions of augmented biological combat units by gaining root via an exploit and re-flashing the firmware. Brings a new definition to "botnet", no?
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I'm talking more about something surgically implanted. Among the deaf community, there are people who view deafness as just part of the spectrum of humanity and refuse things like cochlear implants based on this belief.
Perhaps breast enhancement would be a very low level example of what I'm talking about. I suppose a pacemaker could also be considered as another early example.
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Give a bluetooth headset & an iPhone sending voice commands to goggle, about 5 more years.
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Given the track record for rock-solid security that most advanced technology has had, the very idea of implanting something into the body were a malfunction (or, worse, a malicious exploit) can directly affect the wetware...
A friend of mine works for a manufacturer of implantable pacemakers & defibrillators. The possibility of such devices being hacked is of concern to them.
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Well, I've been interested on and off in the concept of an implanted vagus nerve stimulator as a treatment for chronic and severe depression. That probably counts.
And yeah, if my problems with depression were to get significantly worse, I would probably go for it. That certainly has implications in improving cognition.
I'd rather just work out daily. I still tend to think a less invasive cure, for just about any condition, when equally effective, is probably a better idea.
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I think it is reasonable to assume that many of today's plastic surgeries will be replaced someday by genetic /biomedical engineering. This assumes the technology is allowed to develop, and not restricted in some way.
The question becomes, where will it stop? Will we force human evolution in a weird direction? I don't know, but I think there will be expansive debate about how far to take the technology.
I think most people would be all for fixing genetic disorders, but is that not how evolution advances? So it gets to a point where we could start hindering our own advancement by trying to increase it.
I almost hate to say this, I fear it will be taken the wrong way. Any given society needs workers in "undesirable" positions. Would increasing the average intelligence to a level equivalent to an IQ of 150 solve these problems? I.E. inventing a self cleaning toilet.
Assuming it doesn't, how would society determine who works particular jobs? Determining based on skill is irrelevant if everyone is on the same playing level naturally.
Scenarios presented in gattaca come to mind.
So I guess I would go along with it regardless of the side effects, if it was necessary to be competitive.
If not in that scenario, I would weigh the pros and cons and proceed accordingly.
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I voted 'Probably', but it depends on the risk-to-reward ratio of the procedure. I'd happily receive nano-augmentation. =D
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg641.imageshack.us%2Fimg641%2F5252%2Fdeusex.jpg&hash=9119a1e00f2332f2550eec6e97037c959fc7cabd)
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So Transhumanism is basically a group of people who are fans of the Six Million Dollar Man?
"Steve Austin, a man barely alive..."
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I donate money to two groups.
Cato and SENS.
Cato, for taxes, SENS, for death.
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I voted 'Probably', but it depends on the risk-to-reward ratio of the procedure. I'd happily receive nano-augmentation. =D
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg641.imageshack.us%2Fimg641%2F5252%2Fdeusex.jpg&hash=9119a1e00f2332f2550eec6e97037c959fc7cabd)
D***IT, Cromlech, I came in here to say that! =D I wouldn't even mind being an earlier-gen MechAug.
As far as hacking software goes, simply do what is already done with high-security electronic devices: Don't connect them to an outside source. =)
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D***IT, Cromlech, I came in here to say that! =D I wouldn't even mind being an earlier-gen MechAug.
Can I offer you a nice shiny new 'Hed Kannon'? =D
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Three words: Full. Body. Conversion.
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Except the lower face. =D
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fchud.com%2Farticles%2Fcontent_images%2F5%2Frobocop.jpg&hash=a79e08a1a415a62a7649db9b74cb3368f71af1f3)
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*starts drawing his summoning circle*
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Where can I sign up? =)
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I'll take the Terminator cyborg eye, built in IR and range finding, never know when you might need such.
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Hell yes. I got extra tuition in high school to try to get a passing grade in math (didn't work). Getting some sort of implant, or perhaps some gene that provides me with a permanent neural booster to fix it or to assist me in learning? Gimme nao!
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i see this as the opposite of Harrison Bergeron, but with the same result.
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Don't know. I'd have to do a risk/benefit analysis first. If the risks of death, debilitation, etc were very low, and the benefits great, I'd do it (if I had the money). Otherwise, probably not.
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No, I don't think so. Going down that path can only end badly.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hedweb.com%2Fwirehead%2Frat2.jpg&hash=4b28392312ec2f1baca14ab6f456e15b3c3300f8)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2006%2F03%2Fpods.jpg&hash=a9d3955e6b7860a8545e74b107c0c8639ed0f4e4)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giantbomb.com%2Fuploads%2F1%2F15592%2F523093-borg_large.jpg&hash=4c646cd3202892c09d3c2d3e1c3c49c94b8eeb59)
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No, I don't think so. Going down that path can only end badly.
How so?
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Definitely. =D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_Shell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_Shell)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fe%2Fe8%2FGhost_in_the_Shell_SAC_Saito_Hawkeye.jpg&hash=b983a3bf634a95827d60b11bf485af86d8ccd51d)
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"improve human mental and physical characteristics"
sure, as soon as they show me someone with the spider/superman physical characteristics I'll let them work
on my ancien greek.....
Godless idiots.
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Godless idiots.
All praise the Omnissiah.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg30.imageshack.us%2Fimg30%2F4764%2Fmechanicumtechpriest.jpg&hash=296e866602b5424c38c33f986e672325f9f85935)
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:cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48vGcv3iR-k
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I've gotta admit, the idea of being able to "jack in" a skill set, language, etc. at need has some appeal to me. [Neo]"Whoa. I know kung fu."[/Neo] Build up a whole library of data/skill chips, and break out what you need, when you need it. Granted that it certainly opens up a whole new world of personal/data security issues... No, I won't be doing it when Gen 1.0 comes out, guaranteed. But I'd be interested in that sort of thing.
On the physical end of things... well, at the moment, I'm running on all original parts, with only mild external assistance (I wear contacts to correct pretty bad myopia to slightly better than 20/20). I am, however, a diabetic maintaining fair blood-sugar control with meds who's struggled with weight issues for a long while now - the idea of hardware assistance for various bodily systems would be enticing, no lie. I can see some replacement or "upgrade" parts which I'd love to have, for a wide variety of reasons. And that's not even considering musculoskeletal and nervous upgrades for speed, strength, durability, physical sensors accepting additional types and ranges of inputs - biotechnic implants like those David Weber writes about in his 'Dahak' series ('Mutineer's Moon', 'The Armageddon Inheritance', and 'Heirs Of Empire', or the 'Ashes Of Empire' omnibus collection - the first book is available for free as an ebook at the Baen Free Library online) would be VERY nice indeed.
So, yeah, I'd probably end up with one or more "upgraded" systems, given the choice.
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I've gotta admit, the idea of being able to "jack in" a skill set, language, etc. at need has some appeal to me. [Neo]"Whoa. I know kung fu."[/Neo] Build up a whole library of data/skill chips, and break out what you need, when you need it. Granted that it certainly opens up a whole new world of personal/data security issues... No, I won't be doing it when Gen 1.0 comes out, guaranteed. But I'd be interested in that sort of thing.
On the physical end of things... well, at the moment, I'm running on all original parts, with only mild external assistance (I wear contacts to correct pretty bad myopia to slightly better than 20/20). I am, however, a diabetic maintaining fair blood-sugar control with meds who's struggled with weight issues for a long while now - the idea of hardware assistance for various bodily systems would be enticing, no lie. I can see some replacement or "upgrade" parts which I'd love to have, for a wide variety of reasons. And that's not even considering musculoskeletal and nervous upgrades for speed, strength, durability, physical sensors accepting additional types and ranges of inputs - biotechnic implants like those David Weber writes about in his 'Dahak' series ('Mutineer's Moon', 'The Armageddon Inheritance', and 'Heirs Of Empire', or the 'Ashes Of Empire' omnibus collection - the first book is available for free as an ebook at the Baen Free Library online) would be VERY nice indeed.
So, yeah, I'd probably end up with one or more "upgraded" systems, given the choice.
check out the last episode of Dollhouse. they had folks that added the hardwear to their heads and would use USB drives to remove data and add other data. if they had the skill set on a drive they could use it, but only run so many at a time.
a person could remove 'fear' and load up "beserker', take out 'cooking' and load 'gun skills', and viola solider.
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And in the process become a foaming-at-the-mouth monster who likes sauerkraut and kidney pudding. :laugh:
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i want one of these (http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Solid_Eye_%28technology%29), but an implant. =D no way nohow. [tinfoil]
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If it helps me achieve my goal of living forever, I'd probably implant a lot of things in my head. :P
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I'm already better than 95% of humanity. =D Don't need to go messing with that, to get a leg up on the competition. :angel:
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No, I don't think so. Going down that path can only end badly.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giantbomb.com%2Fuploads%2F1%2F15592%2F523093-borg_large.jpg&hash=4c646cd3202892c09d3c2d3e1c3c49c94b8eeb59)
If transhumanism leading to Jerry Ryan in a sking tight suit is wrong, I don't want to be right.
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http://www.deusex3.com/ >:D