Fighting your own wildland fires

[MillCreek]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/30/us/wildfires-landowners-trucks.html

What a great idea.  If I lived in this environment, I would do something like this.

[RoadKingLarry]

I'm surprised it isn't illegal in Commiefornia.

[cordex]

Firefighting vigilantes!

[Hawkmoon]

And yesterday I noticed a headline -- but didn't follow the link to the article -- that I think was suggesting that some Native American tribes are now resorting to regular controlled burns to mitigate the hazard of uncontrollable wildfires.

Here we go:

https://www.nature.org/en-us/magazine/magazine-articles/indigenous-controlled-burns-california/

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/24/899422710/to-manage-wildfire-california-looks-to-what-tribes-have-known-all-along

[Pb]

It is about the the Indians stepped up.

A lot of habitats need to burn every one to five years.

American Indians basically created a lot of biomes by regular burning... they created habitat for deer, turkeys and buffalo that way.

I remember reading that in eastern America the forests were so open you could drive a carriage through them when white people first arrived.

[Boomhauer]

Firefighters’ unions have staunchly opposed Ms. Linville’s efforts, arguing that letting citizens fight fire is dangerous

Oh of course the *expletive deleted*ing unions are against people doing their job, especially better with less.

Not much difference between this and volunteer fire departments. Non professional firefighters make up the majority of members of those.

[just Warren]

I'm surprised it isn't illegal in Commiefornia.

There are for-profit private wildfire fighting outfits here.

Some years back the story of how they successfully saved all (or almost all) of their clients' properties got into general circulation and the response from certain parties was that since not everybody could afford such a service no one should be allowed to have it. 

It was stated that all firefighting services should be publicly-funded and run.

That didn't go anywhere then, and the services are still available.

Now it's true that homes did burn in the neighborhoods where these private services operated but what was ignored that these services saved quite a few non-client homes in the process of serving their own clients. And that, since there was often no one else in a given area fighting the fire, many, many, more homes would have been lost had it not been for the private efforts. 

Here's an article that says almost the same thing almost point-for-point of the one I read years ago: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/private-firefighters-fuel-tensions-while-saving-california-vineyards-mansions-2021-05-14/

And the quotes from the firefighter's union are just about identical in both articles.

People have the right to defend their homes and businesses whether it's using guns against criminals or a service such as this against fires.

If you can't count on the government to help you, you've got to provide for yourself. I don't think it would add much to the total cost of your insurance coverage so if you're in a fire-prone area maybe make the extra sacrifice and get the added coverage.

So instead of complaining, the government guys should be open to coordinating with the private guys, that would solve some of the problems mentioned in the article.

[MillCreek]

^^^And just about six week ago, Safeco sent me a letter saying that for no additional charge on my homeowner's insurance, they have contracted with private firefighting companies to come protect my home during wildfires.  I think this includes clearing brush, applying fire retardant gel to structures, and a couple of other things.  I had the choice of opting out of this service, but needless to say, I am all in favor of it.

[HankB]

As soon as I read the OP, my very first thought was "I wonder what the firefighters's unions have to say about this?"

Quite a bit as it turns out . . . but fortunately, not enough to stop this practice.

Wonder if we'll see more private policing as some blue cities descend into anarchy with their "Defund the Police" initiatives . . .

[K Frame]

"I remember reading that in eastern America the forests were so open you could drive a carriage through them when white people first arrived."

In a lot of areas yes, this was the case but in large part for a lot of different reasons and not all of it had to do with Indians.

The kind of tree cover you get in the east generally doesn't support a lot of low-story undergrowth, and much of what there is is small shrub type plants. There certainly are areas of thick undergrowth, but that generally is seen in bottom land areas that are wetter. Some of the areas I used to hunt in had clearly defined boundaries between the tree cover with open ground and sparser tree cover but with heavy thicket undergrowth, and it was all largely dependent on available ground water.

There are many areas in the east today that were clear cut logged in the 1800s and early 1900s that haven't been touched since that have reverted to this kind of growth pattern.

[Brad Johnson]

My family be ranch folk, we have a couple of trailer-mounted cattle sprayers. 250 gallons each. In early spring we always kept them filled with water in case of a fire. The local VFD has a couple of 2000 gallon brush rigs and two semi-trailers topped with a bunch of 1000 gallon ag tanks. Most fire depts in that part of the country are similarly outfitted and it's common for them to help out each other during big range fires.

Brad

[charby]

Many of the buildings in the Superior National Forest Area (north east MN) have sprinklers on their roofs and many on the yards, also undergrowth is cut back so far from structures. Northern forests have regular burn events, especially in the jack pine areas, which are a fire dependent species for reproduction. The North can get just as dry as the west from mid summer to winter.

[230RN]

I lived within two blocks of the Chautauqua resort in Boulder CO when there was a grass fire one night that nobody really noticed until it started to get dangerously near a thickly forested area.  The fire department finally had an announcement on KBOL for people to get up there and help out.

Apparenty it was big enough that more manual help with shovels was needed.

I grabbed a shovel from the landlord's storage area and with the Cavalry Charge echoing in my head, I ran to the fire and helped shovel and beat it out before it got to the trees.  The "heroism" was divided between the dozen or so local residents who also kept and bore shovels that night and also charged to the battle.

I will say that was hot, dirty, sweaty, gritty, cough-ey work even at night and it was weird how you'd beat down or shovel over a blaze and a minute later another one would pop up right nearby.

It was good meeting some of  the folks of the neighborhood and found out from one that I lived only a half block from George Gamow, the famous physicist, pronounced Gamov.  (It wasn't until later I found out about the semifamous Alpher–Bethe–Gamow ("alpha, beta, gamma") physics paper, or αβγ paper.)

So besides bestowing kudos and honors upon me for my one-time glorious volunteer firefighting effort, you may also touch the hem of my robe for living so close to George Gamow, for whom the Gamow Tower at CU was named.

The Right Honorable and Noble Terry, 230RN

REF:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpher%E2%80%93Bethe%E2%80%93Gamow_paper

[HankB]

Many of the buildings in the Superior National Forest Area (north east MN) have sprinklers on their roofs and many on the yards, also undergrowth is cut back so far from structures. Northern forests have regular burn events, especially in the jack pine areas, which are a fire dependent species for reproduction. The North can get just as dry as the west from mid summer to winter.

I remember a fire in Kali - maybe the Oakland area - some years back where all the (expen$ive!!!) homes in an area burned down - except one. One of the news services interviewed the owner of the "survivor" house, who informed the interviewer that he cut back vegetation from close to his house, used slate rather than cedar shakes for shingles, and took other fire-abatement measures; these earned him a lawsuit from the local HOA. He brought fire officials to court who testified on his behalf, so the judge ruled in his favor, saying HOAs had no right to impose life-threatening measures on homeowners. So his home survived while every other home, every HOA-compliant home - burned to the ground.

Wonder how people rebuilt since then.

[230RN]

Rules are rules, dammit !
           



(Pic credit in Properties)

[AZRedhawk44]

I'm disappointed to hear about the government protectionism of the fire racket.

I don't run in fire-fighting circles in my daily life, but I did understudy very briefly with a local mead maker who used to be a "hot-shot" woodland firefighter.  Talking with him about some rural fires it doesn't seem to me that the AZ firefighting and EMS community is as protectionist of the "economy" of fire fighting as other locations may be.  Heck, several communities on the Mogillon Rim have tributes and statues and such to hot-shot crews that have died in defense of those communities.

I'd expect most rural fire districts to operate mostly via volunteer or coop/subscription basis.  The impacts of fire are higher on rural folk than urban and the lifestyle just dictates greater intimacy with best practices regarding wildfire prevention and containment.

[MillCreek]

Our house and the surrounding houses are largely carved out of the forest, and we are surrounded by second and third growth western hemlock, Douglas Fir and cedar trees.  I sometimes think if I should buy one of these and keep it in the garage for emergencies:

https://www.amazon.com/Rooftop-Sprinkler-Wildfire-Embers-Connection/dp/B07CLNJWQ8/ref=sr_1_5?crid=C40C2FQ2TDBH&dchild=1&keywords=roof+sprinklers+for+fire&qid=1635951074&qsid=133-7834497-1520215&sprefix=roof+sprinkler%2Caps%2C132&sr=8-5&sres=B07CLNJWQ8%2CB00KI3GMXS%2CB088C41YVL%2CB004VUA82K%2CB07952JB94%2CB01H2DESFK%2CB009F1R0GC%2CB07P9FH2FL%2CB07PBKVNWQ%2CB01H2FNHOG%2CB00GJIL3KS%2CB07HKTDV5K%2CB004RUBGT8%2CB0757JSFY9%2CB07D8SQ7Z4%2CB0002IQ96Y%2CB000FJX4IQ%2CB08HCLFJCW%2CB079C7VWT2%2CB08R3YSGHY

https://www.amazon.com/Rooftop-Sprinkler-GREY-Iron-Owl/dp/B00KI3GMXS/ref=psdc_553974_t1_B07CLNJWQ8

[French G.]

Roof sprinklers sound good but will it save you? Do you have ways to pressurize water if the power is out? If you are set right into the woods with no way to reduce nearby fuel you are probably best off in another town with the insurance people on speed dial. I am reminded every time I burn large quantities of conifers up that I want no part of them in a wildfire. 100 foot tall flame front able to hop from the trees on one side of your neighborhood to the one on the other? No thanks. Only time I think homeowners measures will help is if you are on the edge of a fire not in it’s path of travel. There you might do some good against spot fires from airborne cones and embers.

[HankB]

There ARE places selling fire retardant that you can spray on your house walls and roof or on surrounding vegetation - how much actual protection do they give? I dunno.

Here's just one example: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Phos-CHEK-Home-Defense-Fire-Retardant-Spray-100539685/309255488