Author Topic: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.  (Read 5578 times)

SomeKid

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Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« on: March 22, 2008, 01:11:28 AM »
No, I am not here to mock their awful gun laws. But something even more absurd.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=541598&in_page_id=1770

Quote
Meet the families where no one's worked for THREE generations - and they don't care
By SADIE NICHOLAS and DIANA APPLEYARD - More by this author ? Last updated at 23:09pm on 21st March 2008

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Known as the "Shameless" family among horrified neighbours, the McFaddens "boast" three generations of adults who are not working.

All ten members of the clan share a council house and live off benefits amounting to around ?32,000 a year. And very happy they are, too.

Matriarch is grandmother Sue McFadden, 54. "Our neighbours are so snobby - they call us the "Shameless" family and say that we ought to go out to work. But how can we work when we have all these children to look after?

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Shameless benefit family

Jean Thompson, right, with son Steven and granddaughter Jessica, who says: 'It is my right to claim benefits'. All ten members of her family share a three-bedroom council house

"The only problem is," she says without a hint of irony, "that we're living in a three-bedroom council house, which is ridiculous.

"I'm asking the council for a ten-bedroom home for all of us. We need more space. It's awful sometimes when all the children are squabbling. Still, we do have a big TV with Sky, but we need some relaxation."

Of course they do, poor lambs. What a damning verdict on our claim-it-all society, a grotesque mirror of the dark television drama Shameless. That show features fictional father-of-eight Frank, who is work-shy and self-pitying. Living on the Chatsworth Estate, he heads a family of dysfunctional teenagers living on an estate of benefit claimants and cheats.

The McFaddens bear an uncanny resemblance. Grandmother Sue is divorced and has three daughters, Theresa, 34, Debbie, 32, and Tammy, 24. None of the adults living in the house in Ellesmere Port, near Chester, has a job, and there are also six grandchildren living at home - Kyle, 18, Clayton , 12, Tyler, nine, Courtney, eight, Jodie, seven, and Lucas, six.

But the really disturbing aspect of the McFaddens' lifestyle is that they are far from alone. Six million Britons are living in homes where no one has a job and "benefits are a way of life", according to a report by MPs. Shock figures also revealed that 20,000 households in Britain are pocketing more than ?30,000 a year in state benefits.

With thousands of children growing up in families where their parents and grandparents have never worked, a senior government adviser warned this week of a "terrible legacy" of youngsters who had no expectation of ever getting a job.

Sue herself is defiant. "People don't understand how hard it is to keep a family like this going - no wonder we can't work. How could I go out to work with all these children at home? Local people call us scroungers and that is so unfair. We need the money to keep the family going.

"We get about ?2,700 a month in benefits, from income support to disability allowance, and child benefit for the kids. Kyle is at college and he gets the Education Maintenance Allowance of ?30 a week, and we get Housing Benefit, too. Our rent is ?40 a week, so our benefits don't go far."

Jean Thompson, 66, hasn't worked for over 40 years. She lives in Neath, Swansea, with husband Glyn, 61, a retired plumber. They have three grown-up children, two of whom live on benefits, including son Steven Martin, 39.

Jean says: "My own dad worked down the pit, but my mum didn't work, so I suppose I wanted the same life that she had when I grew up. I just wanted to be at home and live off other people.

"I left school at 15 with no qualifications and worked in a sewing factory for a short while then gave it up and went on the dole instead. Even when my kids were older, I didn't go back to work because I didn't want to. I never get bored. I just sew, knit and clean.

"I don't worry about the example I set to my kids or the fact that two of them don't work. It's up to them

what they do, it's their life, not mine, so it's not my problem. I don't think my desire never to work and to live off the state and my husband rubbed off on Steven. He makes his own decisions.

"I'm certainly not angry that Steven doesn't have a job. He's got children, that's his job. And I don't worry that he's setting a bad example to his children - that's up to him."

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Shameless

The McFaddens have been compared to the family in the dark television drama Shameless

Steven left school 23 years ago and has worked for only five years in that time. It's 12 years since he last had a job. Steven lives in Swansea with partner Donna, 24, who's never worked, and their daughter Celsea, three. His eldest daughter from a previous partner, 17-year-old Jessica, is also on benefits.

Steven says: "Mum never really made us think about work. I did do a plumbing YTS scheme after school. They paid ?27 a week, but it was so boring looking at pipes and sinks all day. When I told my dad I was bored, he said I should never stick with a job I didn't like.

"So, eventually, in my 20s, I thought: "I've tried security work and plumbing and I've even been a taxi driver for six months, but I just don't like working". My mates all left school and became mechanics, sweating it out in stinking, dirty garages for a couple of hundred quid a week.

"I'm much better off than any of them. The highlight of their day is going to the bakery to get a pasty for lunch and they've aged 20 years from the stress of working for a pittance and being stuck indoors all day. It's my right to claim benefits. We're all entitled to do what we want in life.

"I could have trained as a fireman or something, but I didn't want the responsibility. All I've ever wanted is to chill out and have easy money. All my family and friends live in council houses - my parents included."

Steven's daughter Jessica left school last year without any qualifications and has been claiming benefits since. She says: "It's fine that my mum and dad don't work. I'm not ashamed or anything.

"But I suppose if they did both have jobs then I'd have grown up seeing them going to work and earning money and realised how you go about getting work and holding down a job. That would have made me more likely to leave school and want to get a job straight away. But they've both managed OK on benefits.

"Because my gran, Jean, didn't work either then I suppose it's just normal in our family not to have jobs.

"I don't like the idea of having to be bossed around at work and I don't want to go to college or anything because I like to stay in bed in the morning. In the meantime, it's my right to claim benefits. One day I'd like a council flat."

Heady ambition indeed. But is it inevitable that generation upon generation of unemployed families just follow their parents into lives of idle nihilism? Is it the fault of a system which offers benefits too easily - or the fault of parents who fail to encourage their children to aspire or succeed?

Claire Halsey, a consultant clinical psychologist, says: "We are creatures of habit. We take most of our cues from our parents. Most of us repeat the patterns of our families, and also take on values of families. If parents value working, children are more likely to value it and strive for it themselves.

"If it becomes entirely normal for parents to get up late and not expect to work, this becomes entirely normal for their children too.

"If you don't see your parents get up, get dressed for work and go out, you don't have a set routine in the day. It becomes very difficult to shift from being unstructured into the discipline of work.

"There are also issues with motivation. When you are unqualified and have very few skills, you tend to be in jobs that are more dull and mechanical, and have to accept a high degree of direction and authority from the employer. If that isn't your ethos, if you haven't accepted authority at home or in school, you tend to rebel and fail in the workplace."

Certainly, Emma Sussock's life is a grim blueprint set out by the generations before her. Her mother Ann, a divorcee, hasn't worked for 30 years, and exists on benefits and daytime television. Meanwhile, her beloved step-grandfather Carl Davies, a former gas fitter, has survived on benefits since a heart attack 20 years ago.

Emma, 19, lives in a one-room council refuge, existing on benefit handouts as she raises her two-year-old daughter. It is the same as her mother Ann's life before her.

Ann, a divorcee, lives in a one-bedroom council flat in West Derby, Liverpool. She says: "When I left school at 16 with no qualifications I did a youth training type scheme for a year, serving up meals at the local YMCA for about ?25 a week. Then I went on benefits and haven't come off them since. I didn't enjoy the work.

"I wasn't encouraged to work hard by my parents and lots of my friends went straight onto benefits, so I did the same. I live in a one-bed council flat, but the ?54-a-week rent is paid for by the authorities. I also get ?118 a fortnight jobseeker's allowance and I have to pay for my food and bills.

"It's a real struggle. I spend ?10 a week on cigarettes, but I can't afford to go out and I haven't got lots of expensive gadgets, just a portable TV in my lounge. Watching TV is all I do most days. I watch the soaps and The Jeremy Kyle Show. I'm used to this way of life now."

But what aspirations does this mother have for her own daughter to break free of the poverty trap? Ann shrugs: "When Emma was at school, I'd try to encourage her to work harder than I did, but I don't suppose I was a very good role model.

"All my friends, and her friends' parents, were on benefits, too, so she didn't know any different. She used to play truant and I wasn't very happy about that, but it's what everyone her age did.

"She's busy being a mum to Codie now, so she can't be expected to work, but I hope that one day she'll get herself a council house." Emma Sussock's grandfather Carl also lives on benefits, but he at least has a dream: that his grand-daughter doesn't waste her life in a haze of unemployment and handouts. Carl, 69, says with a sigh: "I just hope she doesn't follow her mates into a life on benefits.

"We seem to be left with a whole generation of young people today who think it's OK to live off the state. The worth ethic that my generation grew up with has died. My dad was a bricklayer, my mum stayed at home and I was brought up to work hard. I left school at 16 to take on an apprenticeship as a gas fitter.

"I enjoyed the structure of going to work and earning my own money. In those days people would do anything to earn a living and put food on the able for their families.

"One winter in the early Sixties we weren't able to work as gas fitters for eight weeks because the snow was so bad. We queued for hours at the National Assistance Board, the equivalent of the JobCentre now, but came away with just 50p in benefits. That was incentive for the other men and me to work shifting snow for the council to earn more money.

"When I had to give up work due to ill health, after a heart attack 20 years ago, life changed drastically. Suddenly I was claiming sickness benefits that were worth about ?52 a week compared to the ?200 to ?400 a week I'd been earning as a gas fitter. I had to stop smoking, going to the pub or playing golf.

"My wife Lily and I had to sell our house and move into the council house where I still live. I'd have given anything to go back to work."

Carl thinks the Government have simply made it too easy for people not to work. He says: "I don't blame myself for Ann not working. Even if she tried to get a job, she'd be looking at jobs paying the minimum wage, which is not as much as she claims in benefits. It's the Government's fault: benefits are too generous."

But is the Government to blame for Ann Sussock's reluctance to tear herself away from daytime television? She says with a shrug: "I've not worked for 30 years, so it's not really a big deal."

And what of Emma, tragically bright and animated? She says: "My mates and I were too busy having a laugh at school to care about working and when I left I didn't have any GCSEs. We'd bunk off school, hang around in the town or the local park. Mum was cross, but that didn't bother me.

"Do I think my mum is a bad example because she's always lived on benefits? Maybe if she had worked then I'd have been more likely to get a job straight from school because it would have seemed normal.

"But the truth is when I left school I couldn't be bothered to work. There wasn't anything I wanted to do other than be a singer. I got pregnant not long after, but the father's never been around. Now I get ?100 a week in benefits, income support, child benefit and tax credits.

"In some ways, I wish I could go out and get a job because I'd love to be able to afford to go out with my mates, buy clothes and take Codie on holiday or to the zoo. But I think it would be harder if I was working because I'd only get a job paying the minimum wage, yet I'd have to pay my own rent then, so I'd have nothing left. But I do want a better life for Codie and me."

It's too early to tell what the future holds for Codie, as his family shambles around him, claiming benefits and living off the State. One can only hope that when he grows up, he'll consider it shameful rather than Shameless.

The Viking

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2008, 01:36:19 AM »
That is the most disgusting thing I've read in my entire life. The Little Fascist inside me says that these worthless subhuman s**tbags should be shot on sight. I get furious when I read stuff like this "boo hoo, we don't like working, not at boring jobs, boo hoo let us be parasites boo hoo". F**k them. I hate my job as well, but I bloody well get up every day to go to work. There's such a thing as pride...something these subhumans will never know about, except for the old guy who'd suffered a heart attack. The rest can be used for target practice...

K Frame

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2008, 03:11:34 AM »
The same thing exists here in the United States.

The Democrats created it in the 1960s when they took Lyndon Johnson's vision for welfare as a TEMPORARY hand up in hard times and turned it into something that could be used as a long-term lifestyle.

Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

The Viking

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2008, 03:16:11 AM »
The same thing exists here in the United States.

The Democrats created it in the 1960s when they took Lyndon Johnson's vision for welfare as a TEMPORARY hand up in hard times and turned it into something that could be used as a long-term lifestyle.


We got it here as well. I call them "voting cattle", nothing more than a mean for the Social Democrats to stay in power. Bring in hundreds of thousands of illiterates from every turd-world country, make sure they don't learn the language, make sure they don't get a job, make sure they are on the dole. They will vote for the Social Democrats in order to keep "their" money. It's their (the Social Democrats) fault that some of the suburbs in our bigger cities look more and more like urban warzones in Mogadishu. It kinda happens when you let the barbarians come inside the city gates...

Iain

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2008, 03:21:20 AM »
Ah the Daily Mail - completely unheard of for the Daily Mail to use extreme examples.

I work with disabled people, my organisation gives advice to disabled people. The Mail may think it is attacking the cheats, but in reality the atmosphere it is creating is that all claimants are cheats. Disabled people have been calling advice organisations in a state of panic over the recent government 'reforms' and stupid, ignorant comments made by 'goverment advisors' on benefits.

Sure examples like the above are disheartening, and there is a problem. The rhetoric is a problem too though.
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roo_ster

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2008, 03:57:35 AM »
Iain:

The assumption ought to be one of skepticism, not accommodation.  Those who live off the work of others should be anxious, lest they cultivate an attitude of entitlement.
Regards,

roo_ster

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K Frame

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2008, 04:10:06 AM »
"lest they cultivate an attitude of entitlement."

Too late.
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Iain

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2008, 04:14:31 AM »
Those who live off the work of others should be anxious,

That's cute. You live like it. I come across people daily who are anxious, because of the rhetoric that spews out, and they are the genuinely ill. COPD, learning difficulties and the terminally ill even.

Everyone always says they haven't got a problem with the genuinely sick, and then some opportunity comes up to paint all welfare recipients as work-shy fakers and they jump at the chance to take it.
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Bigjake

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2008, 04:56:26 AM »
I'd wager money that well under 20% of people on .gov assistance actually "need" it.

K Frame

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2008, 05:18:55 AM »
Those who live off the work of others should be anxious,

That's cute. You live like it. I come across people daily who are anxious, because of the rhetoric that spews out, and they are the genuinely ill. COPD, learning difficulties and the terminally ill even.

Everyone always says they haven't got a problem with the genuinely sick, and then some opportunity comes up to paint all welfare recipients as work-shy fakers and they jump at the chance to take it.


I don't think that's the case at all.

I don't think anyone is disputing that public assistance is, for some people, absolutely necessary. There's no need to preface EVERY statement in the thread with "I have no problem with people who truly need it receiving public assistance...."

What this article largely presents, though, is the case where public assistance is see as a right, as a job in and of itself.

The sole example in the article where someone is receiving PA who is doing so because he can't work, and who actually has a conscience about it, is Carl, the grandfather...

"I'd have given anything to go back to work."

But even he has a warped view of the whole situation... "It's the Government's fault; benefits are too generous."

Not the fault of the individuals who choose to make their livings off the dole and see it as a right, or a way out of actually doing something useful in society.

This statement kills me...

"I just don't like working"

Hell, I don't much like working, either. But I have a sense of personal pride, self-worth, and a decided lack of the attitude that "life owes me something for nothing."



Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

Manedwolf

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2008, 06:33:08 AM »
Of course, a side effect of the benefits system there is the layabout kids who just go around, get drunk, beat up people, burn cars, and break things.

What else do they have to do? They've gotten so bad that they apparently even have a drinking party now when they get their first ASBO.

K Frame

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2008, 06:55:45 AM »
But Maned, you should know that it's the government's responsibility to provide them with entertainment!
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johnster999

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2008, 07:00:57 AM »
Quote
'It is my right to claim benefits'

I think that says it all.

Government is the worst enabler of all.

Cromlech

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2008, 07:12:01 AM »
As Iain said, the Daily Mail have indeed printed an extreme example. That is not the norm. Still, it's crappy as Hell.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2008, 07:20:15 AM »
Human behavior, by and large, is dictated by incentives.

Remove the incentives, and...


thebaldguy

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2008, 07:24:42 AM »
Of course, a side effect of the benefits system there is the layabout kids who just go around, get drunk, beat up people, burn cars, and break things.

What else do they have to do? They've gotten so bad that they apparently even have a drinking party now when they get their first ASBO.

I think they're called CHAVs - Council Housed And Violent. It's the UK version of lazy welfare recipients.

Cromlech

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2008, 07:29:13 AM »
They are mostly Chavs, but the etymology of the word 'Chav' is still being debated.
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The Viking

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2008, 08:40:39 AM »
Of course, a side effect of the benefits system there is the layabout kids who just go around, get drunk, beat up people, burn cars, and break things.

What else do they have to do? They've gotten so bad that they apparently even have a drinking party now when they get their first ASBO.
Nothing a couple of well aimed bullets fired from an AR15 wouldn't cure...if they were allowed that is.

The Viking

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2008, 08:42:22 AM »
They are mostly Chavs, but the etymology of the word 'Chav' is still being debated.
I've heard it's from the romani language. No matter what, chavs and similar pissbags around Europe need a brutal wake up call...

El Tejon

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2008, 09:32:55 AM »
Viking, yes, in a bolt-action format.

New York City, Chicago, LA, San Fransico, New Orleans are full of the very same chavs.
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

lupinus

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2008, 10:16:27 AM »
Quote
I'd wager money that well under 20% of people on .gov assistance actually "need" it.
And, having sat in many a welfare office because my mother is disabled, I'd see your 20 and call it 10%. 

I have no problem with truly disabled or in need people getting it.  I have no problem with people who hit hard times (of no fault of their own, *expletive deleted*it happens) getting a little temporary help.

But this *expletive deleted*it is ridicules, these people here shouldn't be allowed to breed.  Can't take care of all the kids?  Give them up to a good family and keep your damn legs closed.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

thebaldguy

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2008, 11:03:42 AM »
I guess I'm not surprised it's happening in the UK; I'm not suprised it has happened here in the US for decades. Here in Minneapolis they have built housing where some of it is for sale, and part is available for section 8/welfare housing.

It's not suprising that no one wants to buy a condo where your neighbors are welfare cases. No one is willing to pay $150000.00 for a condo where your bad behaving neighbors get to live for free. The units then turn into 100% welfare residents, and become concentrations of poverty and crime.

Welfare cases tend to be less well behaved than responsible homeowners. Funny how that is.

The Viking

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2008, 11:21:19 AM »
Viking, yes, in a bolt-action format.

New York City, Chicago, LA, San Fransico, New Orleans are full of the very same chavs.
Or in .22 LR, I know.
We have similar groups here, although I don't think they've reached to the same level of violence as the british chavs have (yet). OTOH, we got neo-nazi groups, and various kinds of leftist groups, along with gangs of immigrants who all provide an ample supply of assaults, robberies, rapes and murders. Yay welfare-for-everyone-state!

HankB

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2008, 02:55:50 PM »
Normally, I have more to say, but . . .

The Viking: +1!!!
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Manedwolf

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Re: Britain, awe inspiring idiocy.
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2008, 03:11:09 PM »
Viking, yes, in a bolt-action format.

New York City, Chicago, LA, San Fransico, New Orleans are full of the very same chavs.
Or in .22 LR, I know.
We have similar groups here, although I don't think they've reached to the same level of violence as the british chavs have (yet). OTOH, we got neo-nazi groups, and various kinds of leftist groups, along with gangs of immigrants who all provide an ample supply of assaults, robberies, rapes and murders. Yay welfare-for-everyone-state!

But at least you can buy a full-auto Swedish K for defense. For really cheap.