Author Topic: Appeasing Islam  (Read 5828 times)

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: Appeasing Islam
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2008, 06:37:51 PM »
What was that movie in the 80's with college students building a laser, where there was demo footage of what the pentagon wanted to do, a laser that could vaporize a pesky enemy leader out of the blue?

That'd be kinda nice. Orbital "smite yo' ass" button. Just "Hey, where did they go, they were right here a second ago!"

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,836
Re: Appeasing Islam
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2008, 08:04:57 PM »
Quote
If a significant number of people seem to be causing problems or doing bad things in the name of something, be it squirrels or a religion, it seems like that is all the justification one needs to focus on that group as the common thread it unites under.  It may not be all inclusive but it would also be no small number. 

Well, apparently this would hinge on polls, since you are talking about the numbers of people.  The number of Muslims that actually commit terrorist acts is easily well below 1 percent; the number of people who support religious extremism of the sort practiced in places like Saudi Arabia is hard to measure, but based on polls, is something like 10 percent.

So what to you is a "significant number" such that all Muslims should be held accountable? I'd be interested to hear at what percentage point in the population for both acts of terrorism and support for religious extremism you would start to consider those things "a common thread."

Quote
The first that comes to mind is the Philippines with regions like Mindanao.  I'll let the reader decide but the words from the residents and muslims themselves seems quite damning http://www.gmanews.tv/story/84619/69-of-Mindanao-Muslims-say-poll-violence-a-way-of-life---SWS

This is another good example of the local being blamed on the religious-from the Arab and South Asian perspective, the tribesmen in the Phillippines are regularly labeled pagans because of their own traditional religious prescriptions.  It's a bit like taking the Philipino Christians who crucify themselves and then saying "look-90 percent of Christians in the Philipines think it's cool to nail yourself to a piece of wood and let others whip you to pieces for religion," and then drawing a conclusion about Christianity from it.

Quote
My understanding is that the largely muslim neighborhoods in france that have gained a little fame for their riots and burning of things also suffer safety issues to a greater degree than other areas.  That of course ignores the riots and arson. 

It also ignores the fact that a large number of non-Muslims rioted in these very same riots, which had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with race.  They were African riots, not religious riots.

Quote
In your own view, do you believe that we see a significant number of "bad things" done in the world today either in the name of or in accordance with people's religious beliefs that they describe as Islam?

In my own view, there's very little done that is religiously specific to Islam.  Most of the argument is on facts, not religion.  bin Laden and his followers claim that they are simply "attacking people who vote to support violence against their own", and that said attacks are justified because in democracies, the civilians can be held responsible for what their governments do.  They are using essentially the same reasoning that you use here-since a majority of Americans support the war on Iraq and Israel against the Palestinians, the radicals conclude, any Americans can be held responsible as combatants in a greater war. 

That's not really a religious viewpoint unique to Arabs/Muslims/anyone else, it's a symptom of the "total war" disease that seems to have swept the planet since Napoleon.  And I don't see how arguing about religion addresses it at all.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Nitrogen

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Who could it be?
    • @c0t0d0s2 / Twitter.
Re: Appeasing Islam
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2008, 09:50:42 AM »
What was that movie in the 80's with college students building a laser, where there was demo footage of what the pentagon wanted to do, a laser that could vaporize a pesky enemy leader out of the blue?

That'd be kinda nice. Orbital "smite yo' ass" button. Just "Hey, where did they go, they were right here a second ago!"

Real Genius.
One of my favorite movies ever.  Val Kilmer before he made it big.
יזכר לא עד פעם
Remember. Never Again.
What does it mean to be an American?  Have you forgotten? | http://youtu.be/0w03tJ3IkrM

gunsmith

  • I forgot to get vaccinated!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,179
  • I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Re: Appeasing Islam
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2008, 02:39:18 PM »
Quote
What causes this childlike rage of temper tantrums among the extremists? Were they never spanked as children, or what?

The opposite, they were raised by brutal parents who were raised by brutal parents.

A good book on the subject is "For Your Own Good" by Alice Miller.
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

Desertdog

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,360
Re: Appeasing Islam
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2008, 03:54:58 PM »
Quote
I'm personally still somewhat undecided on the nature of Islam not being much of a theologian myself but I can apprecaite that there seems to be a problem of violence within Islam to some degree.
I have heard that the difference between follower of Islam and a Christian is, that the Islamist are willing to kill or die for Mohamed, but Jesus was willing to die for our sins.

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,836
Re: Appeasing Islam
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2008, 06:12:52 PM »
Quote
I'm personally still somewhat undecided on the nature of Islam not being much of a theologian myself but I can apprecaite that there seems to be a problem of violence within Islam to some degree.
I have heard that the difference between follower of Islam and a Christian is, that the Islamist are willing to kill or die for Mohamed, but Jesus was willing to die for our sins.

Islam's Messenger died roughly 1400 years ago-sorry my friend, but there is no one (again, not even a Bin ladenite crazy) who thinks that they are dying for him.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Desertdog

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,360
Re: Appeasing Islam
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2008, 07:43:47 PM »
Quote
Islam's Messenger died roughly 1400 years ago-sorry my friend, but there is no one (again, not even a Bin ladenite crazy) who thinks that they are dying for him.
What or who are they killing and dying for?

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,836
Re: Appeasing Islam
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2008, 08:28:35 PM »
Quote
Islam's Messenger died roughly 1400 years ago-sorry my friend, but there is no one (again, not even a Bin ladenite crazy) who thinks that they are dying for him.
What or who are they killing and dying for?

For the most part, their countries-they believe that their suicide attacks target foreign occupiers of their homelands, and that because civilians contribute money and volunteers to armies, they're justified in hitting civilians as a part of the war.  The more religious of the groups label all Muslims a single nation, and claim that they are acting in response to attacks on Muslms generally.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."