When did AK's get more expensive than damn AR's?

[AJ Dual]

Yep, Saiga that is 922r compliant, pistol gripped, and accepts normal AK mags. I was hoping the lower ffl price and lack of transfer fees would off set the conversion fee. P'raps not though...

It's definitely a smith job if you want the gas block and FSB done to AKM/AK-74 spec, that takes a hydraulic shop press and some plates, blocks, and jigs to "do it right".

However, if you do go DIY route, Carolina Shooter's Supply has GREAT parts and conversion packages. http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-CONVERSION-KITS-cln-SAIGA-223%2C-5.45%2C-7.62%2C-308/Categories

[Balog]

It's definitely a smith job if you want the gas block and FSB done to AKM/AK-74 spec, that takes a hydraulic shop press and some plates, blocks, and jigs to "do it right".

However, if you do go DIY route, Carolina Shooter's Supply has GREAT parts and conversion packages. http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-CONVERSION-KITS-cln-SAIGA-223%2C-5.45%2C-7.62%2C-308/Categories

Yeah, I actually like the Saiga forend and fsb etc. I was just thinking it might be a way to save a bit, with the conversion fee standing in place of the usual retail markup.

[AJ Dual]

I think a Saiga ordered from one of the online retailers, like Atlantic, http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct796.aspx (you want 5.45 for the cheap ammo, right?), send it to an inexpensive Kitchen Table FFL in your area (about $25) And a conversion kit from Carolina Shooter's Supply, and some sweat equity will be the fastest and cheapest way to do this.

A little checking around tells me most Saiga conversion smiths seem to charge around $500 for a conversion, parts and labor. Way above even the local "rape prices" shop's markup. So if the conversion smith will accept direct-shipping of the rifle, then transfer to you, you're still probably losing at least $300 by not doing it yourself, IMO.

I would just go with a kit from CSS like this one, http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-892/Saiga-Rifle-Conversion-Kit/Detail, that's $170, maybe add in the ACE folding block for $60-80, depending on the one you want.

So that's about:

$380 for a base Saiga.
$25 shipping (ballpark, probably cheaper, rifles can go UPS ground)
$25 for a good FFL x-fer.
$170 for the CSS conversion kit.
$60 for a folding stock hinge.  (why not?  )

So you're looking at $660 all said and done.

I don't think you'll find anyone you'd trust willing to do a Saiga conversion for only $280, parts included.

[Balog]

You make a persuasive argument AJ. Anything else you'd recommend swapping out on a Saiga when doing the conversion?

[AJ Dual]

You make a persuasive argument AJ. Anything else you'd recommend swapping out on a Saiga when doing the conversion?

Maybe do something with the muzzle, getting a '74 style brake on there. Although, my Saiga conversion was the 12ga, and that's a different animal. The muzzle is already threaded for chokes etc.

The other thing you might need is a bullet guide, but I'd wait and see if you really needed it. The bullet guide is just a shelf that noses the round up to make sure it's pointing into the chamber as it feeds. A Saiga just has the rear edge of the trunnion there instead, because the low-cap Saiga mags nose the rounds up enough to not need a standard AK/AKM bullet guide shelf in there.

Many folks with 5.45 Saigas never need them, because the long pointy ogive of the 5.45 bullet means it's already nosing into the chamber by the time the bullet or the case might need to scoot over the guide shelf/ramp to tip it up a bit more.

It's $20 kit, drill bit, tap, screw and bullet guide/shelf included. You supply the hi-temp red Loctite. Seems like 50% of the folks with Saiga 5.45 conversions never needed them. About 45% have 1 failure every 30 rounds or so. About 5% have more failures than that.

There are two kinds of Saiga 5.45 rear trunnions though, one is flat right before the chamber, the other has a shallow curve to it. You just need to be sure you're getting the right one. http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-604/Saiga-5.45-Bullet-Guide/Detail -OR- http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-1016/5.45x39-round-bullet-guide/Detail

The rounded trunnion guide has a single mild scoop to it to nose the bullets up from either left or right feed in the mag. The flat one has two curved scoops on it's corners to catch the bullets from the left and right feed positions.

If you did need a bullet guide, that would be the hardest step IMO. Mainly because you'd need to be sure you got the pilot hole into the trunnion shelf started in exactly the right place. (dry fit the bullet guide, and use the hole to mark it) and tapping the very tough steel of the trunnion takes patience. There's no such thing as too much oil, and you need to go slow, no more than 1/4 turn, before backing off to clear the chips of the cut threads. Any further, and you risk snapping off the tap, and if you do, then it's gunsmith time... 

[Balog]

Oops, didn't notice that before. I'm getting the 7.62 not 5.45. If I wanted a rifle firing a ~.22 round I'd get an AR :) honestly if the Sig 556r wasn't so much more spendy I'd go with that. I just want something in 7.62x39 that functions reliably and doesn't need weird proprietary mags.

[AJ Dual]

Oh, then I  think you have to get the bullet guide, or AK mags won't lock in place.

[Balog]

Oh, then I  think you have to get the bullet guide, or AK mags won't lock in place.

Thanks. :)

[Balog]

Hmm, so I can get a totally un-converted Saiga for about $40-50 less than I can get one of these. http://www.onpointfirearms.com/saiga/Saiga_Fact_Sheet.pdf

Thoughts? I'm not looking to do an accurate conversion. I'll probably either keep the standard handguard and screw a bit of rail onto it, or just replace the forend with a railed model. I don't really care about the non-standard gas block etc as long as it functions right. Having a US made trigger assembly isn't a bad deal though.

[AJ Dual]

Hmm, so I can get a totally un-converted Saiga for about $40-50 less than I can get one of these. http://www.onpointfirearms.com/saiga/Saiga_Fact_Sheet.pdf

Thoughts? I'm not looking to do an accurate conversion. I'll probably either keep the standard handguard and screw a bit of rail onto it, or just replace the forend with a railed model. I don't really care about the non-standard gas block etc as long as it functions right. Having a US made trigger assembly isn't a bad deal though.

What they've done there is the "hard stuff" for the home converter to do for himself. Namely the fore-end, the gas block, and the threadded AKM/AK74 style muzzle break. Changing any of that stuff yourself requires the use of a 12 ton hydraulic shop press from Harbor Freight ($100 on up). Not to mention the appropriate heavy steel support plates and jigs, which you might find as a rental or a "pass around" on one of the various DIY AK boards.

As someone who just re-did a FSB tower on a SAR2 with hand tools, I can tell you that it's not for the faint of heart. The idea of changing out the gas block or handgaurd retainers, and getting it all back on right, makes me break out in a sweat.

If it really is only $50 more than an unconverted Saigas you've been pricing, and all you need to do is dremel out the trigger extension and the cover plate, add a trigger guard, move it forward into the FCG, put on a pistol grip and regular AK stock or folder of some sort, and add a bullet guide, then yeah, that's worth it. Even if you're not concerned about the correctness. Their claim that it's an additonal $450 value of parts and work is stretched, but only a little. It is a couple hundred bucks of work if sent to a smith.

So now you've got a completely proper Russian Izhmash AKM, rather than just a Saiga converted on the rear end.

Dammit... now you've got me thinking about selling my WASR to buy one of these...