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Author Topic: Perry is offically in.  (Read 29109 times)

longeyes

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #75 on: August 19, 2011, 11:18:24 AM »
Sometimes hate is damning with faint praise or less faint dismissal. I don't see a lot of politicians saying a word about The Federal Reserve much less reminding Americans, ceaselessly, of what our liberties are really all about.  If some of his policy views are debatable--and I don't deny that--Paul deserves not only to be taken seriously but to be applauded.  R.P. is not, admittedly, glamorous, but we have quite enough of that, don't we, in a society where most of our kids put "fame" as number one on their wish list?
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #76 on: August 19, 2011, 12:30:40 PM »
Oh, I take him seriously. I also applaud him. There are equally serious and laudable people who don't see the Fed. Reserve as the locus of evil, and so far I find them more convincing. I guess the fact that I won’t jump on the anti-Fed bandwagon until I've studied the issue for myself makes me one of slaves who thinks I'm free. Goodness knows I'm a Pollyanna about this utopia of perfect freedom in which we live.
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makattak

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #77 on: August 19, 2011, 12:57:34 PM »
The Fed is a windmill for Mr. Paul and his acolytes to tilt at.

The Fed is not the problem. Yes, we may be better off without the Fed and returning to a gold standard. That's a matter FAAAAAAAAAAAR removed from the situation we are in now.

Re-instituting the gold standard would do nothing to affect our currently bloated government and coming entitlement meltdown. (And, without the Fed, congress would be free to debase the currency as they see fit.)

Honestly, what do Paulians expect to come about from auditing the Fed?
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So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

MechAg94

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #78 on: August 19, 2011, 01:07:04 PM »
Quote from: longeyes on August 19, 2011, 11:18:24 AM
Sometimes hate is damning with faint praise or less faint dismissal. I don't see a lot of politicians saying a word about The Federal Reserve much less reminding Americans, ceaselessly, of what our liberties are really all about.  If some of his policy views are debatable--and I don't deny that--Paul deserves not only to be taken seriously but to be applauded.  R.P. is not, admittedly, glamorous, but we have quite enough of that, don't we, in a society where most of our kids put "fame" as number one on their wish list?
No, it isn't hate.  If it was hate, we would be much more vicious.  It is just taking a realistic view of his ideas and actions applied to actually accomplishing something in today's political climate.  I think it is great that he is trying to bring these ideas into the public forum, but I think people like you need to be realistic and understand that he is not going to win, and we won't be better off electing Obama over a Not-Paul Republican.  The tea party stuff has shown that it is possible to elect at least some Republicans who might actually try to cut spending and get things started.  We need to keep that going.  Just because we can't do it all at once, we don't need to give up and let the other side win.
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longeyes

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #79 on: August 19, 2011, 01:31:51 PM »
The Fed is no windmill.  Maybe a threshing machine?  It is not just about the pros or cons of the gold standard or arguments about monetary policy mismanagement, it is about having America controlled by a clandestine criminal operation that arose under dubious circumstances, operates non-transparently, and has self-serving interests.  The Federal Reserve is nothing like than a dynastic oligarchy that is hidden in plain sight.  Everyone knows the great Mafia families of New York; how many Americans know the families behind the Federal Reserve?  It is not the only problem in America but it is certainly symptomatic of where we began to go gravely wrong a century ago.
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Balog

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #80 on: August 19, 2011, 01:49:25 PM »
Quote from: longeyes on August 19, 2011, 11:18:24 AM
Sometimes hate is damning with faint praise or less faint dismissal. I don't see a lot of politicians saying a word about The Federal Reserve much less reminding Americans, ceaselessly, of what our liberties are really all about.  If some of his policy views are debatable--and I don't deny that--Paul deserves not only to be taken seriously but to be applauded.  R.P. is not, admittedly, glamorous, but we have quite enough of that, don't we, in a society where most of our kids put "fame" as number one on their wish list?

SO if we don't show sufficient adulation for your boy that means we hate him? Wow...
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Waitone

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #81 on: August 19, 2011, 02:58:03 PM »
Quote from: makattak
Re-instituting the gold standard would do nothing to affect our currently bloated government and coming entitlement meltdown. (And, without the Fed, congress would be free to debase the currency as they see fit.)
Gotta disagree.  A hard commodity based currency would immediately affect our government in that it would remove easy access to credit.  Yup, congress would still be free to debase the currency but it would do so at no interest.  There is no reason Treasury could not do exactly what FED does at a significantly reduced cost to taxpayers.  When congress debases the currency we have the opportunity to get at 'em periodically.  We have no such opportunity WRT the FED.  We can't even get a list of the FED's stockholders much less conduct moonshots such as audits. 
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makattak

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #82 on: August 19, 2011, 04:06:27 PM »
Quote from: Waitone on August 19, 2011, 02:58:03 PM
Gotta disagree.  A hard commodity based currency would immediately affect our government in that it would remove easy access to credit.  Yup, congress would still be free to debase the currency but it would do so at no interest.  There is no reason Treasury could not do exactly what FED does at a significantly reduced cost to taxpayers.  When congress debases the currency we have the opportunity to get at 'em periodically.  We have no such opportunity WRT the FED.  We can't even get a list of the FED's stockholders much less conduct moonshots such as audits.  

Your little handwaving about congress debasing the currency is not inconsequential. When a legislature has control over the value of a currency, the currency tends to have more inflation than one controlled by an "independent" body like the Fed.

I'm no Fed defender, but it's a very messed up set of priorities to think the Fed is the great problem in our country.

There's no grand conspiracy. The Fed doesn't have the power its detractors believe. NUMEROUS other problems should be addressed long before dealing with a fiat currency and the Fed.

Of course, the Fed provides a nice focal point for those that tend to believe in grand conspiracies. Perhaps that is why Ron Paul chose it as his windmill- he knows how to play to his base.
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So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

longeyes

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #83 on: August 19, 2011, 06:27:09 PM »
Of course The Fed isn't the only problem, but it's a black cloud that's been hanging over America for a century. 

Ron Paul is hated--yes, and as I say, there are many levels of hatred--because he's rejected the whole Neo-con gospel that has gotten America into such trouble.  Detractors want to accuse him of being anti-military, but our numerous wars of attrition are themselves anti-military. 

Who is more quixotic, you or Ron Paul?

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #84 on: August 19, 2011, 08:19:12 PM »
Quote from: longeyes on August 19, 2011, 06:27:09 PM
Of course The Fed isn't the only problem, but it's a black cloud that's been hanging over America for a century. 

Ron Paul is hated--yes, and as I say, there are many levels of hatred--because he's rejected the whole Neo-con gospel that has gotten America into such trouble.  Detractors want to accuse him of being anti-military, but our numerous wars of attrition are themselves anti-military. 

Who is more quixotic, you or Ron Paul?



Racist!  OK, lulz aside, don't pull this false dichotomy garbage here. No one here is stupid enough to believe that the alternative to Ron Paul-ism is neo-conservatism. 
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longeyes

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #85 on: August 19, 2011, 11:20:50 PM »
Yeah, but the people who are most uncomfortable with him are those in the Neo-con camp.
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seeker_two

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #86 on: August 20, 2011, 11:10:20 AM »
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TommyGunn

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #87 on: August 20, 2011, 11:49:33 AM »
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longeyes

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #88 on: August 20, 2011, 11:56:05 AM »
The fix is in.  Problem is, there's more than one "fixer."   =|
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RocketMan

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #89 on: August 20, 2011, 05:29:02 PM »
The beltway types want Romney.  He'll get the nomination.
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If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

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Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #90 on: August 20, 2011, 06:33:18 PM »
Quote from: RocketMan on August 20, 2011, 05:29:02 PM
The beltway types want Romney.  He'll get the nomination.

Is Karl Rove not a beltway type?
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P5 Guy

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #91 on: August 20, 2011, 06:52:14 PM »
JEB
2012
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MechAg94

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #92 on: August 20, 2011, 10:37:35 PM »
Quote from: P5 Guy on August 20, 2011, 06:52:14 PM
JEB
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Some people said voters weren't ready for another Texas Gov.  I think they definitely would not be ready for another Bush.  Not anytime soon.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #93 on: August 20, 2011, 11:35:54 PM »
Quote from: makattak on August 19, 2011, 04:06:27 PM


There's no grand conspiracy. The Fed doesn't have the power its detractors believe. NUMEROUS other problems should be addressed long before dealing with a fiat currency and the Fed.

Ah, a strawman.

I do not need to believe in a deliberate conspiracy to believe that there are in the West social elites - of bureaucrats, of politicians, of corporate leaders - who work to maintain the status-quo. Some of them do it on instinct - a reading of Mises' The Anti-Capitalist Mentality elaborates on this far better than I ever could. Others do it simply because they want to maintain some narrow selfish interest. Yet others openly and fully believe in the System.

There really is, after all, a Bilderberg hotel, and wealthy and powerful people do meet at it-  not as a united conspirator force, but simply because it is a designated hangout for the social elite.

Just because I do not believe in deliberate Black Castles of Evil housing Black Lord Conspirators with Mind Control Rays, does not mean that I do not believe that there is a system, and that system includes central banking and the state as a lender of last resort.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #94 on: August 21, 2011, 12:18:35 AM »
No, it is not a straw man. He was addressing someone who has portrayed the Fed. Reserve as a conspiracy.

Quote from: longeyes on August 19, 2011, 01:31:51 PM
It...is about having America controlled by a clandestine criminal operation that arose under dubious circumstances, operates non-transparently, and has self-serving interests.  The Federal Reserve is nothing like than a dynastic oligarchy that is hidden in plain sight.  Everyone knows the great Mafia families of New York; how many Americans know the families behind the Federal Reserve?  
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longeyes

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #95 on: August 21, 2011, 01:38:31 PM »
Thanks for quoting me.  There was a typo there: I meant to write that the Fed is nothing more than a dynastic oligarchy that is hidden in plain sight.  We can play semantic games about what is and isn't a conspiracy, what is and isn't collusion, what is and isn't a happy confluence of interests, etc., but The Fed is, was, and has been the financial plaything of a small group of people united by philosophy, values, and, often, marriage.  I'll stand by my analog of the NY "crime families."  Perhaps you believe that the Warburgs are really superior to the Gambinos.  Keep thinking that.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #96 on: August 21, 2011, 01:48:04 PM »
I wasn't disputing anything you said about the Federal Reserve.
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Waitone

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #97 on: August 21, 2011, 03:19:27 PM »
The FED is a cartel. 
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Jocassee

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #98 on: August 23, 2011, 06:18:23 PM »
From a friend on FB who is in the higher echelons of SC GOPdom.

Myrtle Beach Tea Party
Myrtle Beach Tea Party August Straw Poll - 8/22 Meeting
Rick Perry - 55%; Michele Bachmann - 26%; Rick Santorum - 13%; Herman Cain - 3%; Mitt Romney - 3%; Newt Gingrich, John Huntsman and Ron Paul - 0%
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #99 on: August 23, 2011, 06:34:11 PM »
Quote from: Jocassee on August 23, 2011, 06:18:23 PM

Myrtle Beach Tea Party
Myrtle Beach Tea Party August Straw Poll - 8/22 Meeting
Rick Perry - 55%; Michele Bachmann - 26%; Rick Santorum - 13%; Herman Cain - 3%; Mitt Romney - 3%; Newt Gingrich, John Huntsman and Ron Paul - 0%

Looking at SC demographics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Carolina#Religion
http://www.statemaster.com/state/SC-south-carolina

45% of people are Southern Baptists, according to Wikipedia... and only 6% are non-religious.  Wiki lacks citations for that section, but the second "statemaster" link corroborates the Wiki 6% assertion with a close number... 7%.  

A wiki article with much better sourcing for American religious demographics shows:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#Main_religious_preferences_of_Americans

15% non-religious population.
Anywhere from 59-76% christian, with only 5.3% of that being members of the Southern Baptist Convention.


SC is not representative of the US electoral demographic.  It is succeptible to Perry's jeebuzing.

Sounds like the Myrtle Beach TEA Party has forgotten what "TEA" means.
http://blogs.cbn.com/beltwaybuzz/archive/2011/08/04/perry-comfortable-with-support-of-marriage-abortion-constitutional-amendments.aspx
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/8714-rick-perry-and-the-largest-tax-hike-in-texas
http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/rep_bios.php?rep_id=56615334&category=views&id=20100726090644
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