Diesel Trumps Hybrid

[Gewehr98]

From an uncle who worked for GM, I also understood the Olds/GM diesel was simply a reworked 350 small-block, and a poor effort at that.   

[rwc]

A Toyota RAV4 D-4D would meet my needs nicely.  Anyone know anyone at Toyota? 

http://rav4world.com/index/diesel.html

[Ron]

A Toyota RAV4 D-4D would meet my needs nicely.  Anyone know anyone at Toyota?  grin

That is a cool little diesel. I'll have to look into that when it comes to the USA.

[mfree]

Sindawe;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_V8_engine#LF9

[edit] Oldsmobile Diesel problems
Despite the fact that these engines looked in large part like their gasoline cousins, they were indeed quite different. The castings were much thicker and heavier, and a higher quality alloy was used for the block and heads. The main bearing journals were also increased to 3.000 inches in size to compensate for the higher operating stresses and pressures that diesels exert on their reciprocating parts. The primary problem with GM's Diesel engines of the 1970s was due in large part to poor fuel quality (diesel fuel was notoriously filthy and contaminated with water in the late 1970's), which caused corrosion in the fuel injection pump. This corrosion could (and often did) cause an incorrect injection cycle, which would produce abnormally high cylinder pressures. This in turn would cause the cylinder head to "lift" up off of the block, and stretch (or even break) the head bolts. Once the head gasket was compromised, the gasket would leak coolant into the cylinder. At 22.5:1 compression, there was little volume left in the cylinder at TDC. The uncompressible quality of liquids means that the engine would hydro lock, breaking pistons, crankshafts, connecting rods, and other parts, resulting in complete and catastrophic engine damage. Why then, did other Diesel engines, from GM and other companies, not have these problems? The answer lies in the lack of an effective water separating system, such as can be found on other diesel applications. Overall, the main ingredients of disaster that affected this engine lie in: 1) A poorly designed fuel system, which was fostered by a desire to insulate the consumer from the unpleasant aspects of Diesel ownership. 2) A misguided attempt to market the diesel engine as if it was as convenient to operate and maintain as a gasoline engine. 3) A poorly trained service staff which often used the incorrect oils and service procedures for this (and any, for that matter) Diesel engine. These factors combined to create the ultimate downfall of this engine. In the hands of an experienced diesel operator, these engines can (and often do) travel for hundreds of thousands of trouble free miles. However, for owners who would just "gas and go", this engine was particularly ill suited to the task.

http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofedsl.htm

That one highlights specific differences.

http://www.robertpowersmotorsports.com/DieselWeb.html

With some pictures of differences

[Sindawe]

mfree, I stand corrected.  Thanks for the data. 

[Stand_watie]

Back in the '70's, a neighbor had a diesel Mercedes. (I think it was a 220D?) He claimed he burned "furnace oil" in it, for about half the price of "legal" diesel. Don't know if he was on the level or full of it...

Don't know for sure but it is in line with my knowledge...our furnace in Michigan burned "#2 fuel oil", which my dad told me is "diesel fuel, just cheaper without the extra taxes..."

[Creeping Incrementalism]

There was a Mythbusters on last night where they filtered oil from the frying vats at a restaurant, and it got only 10% less mileage than diesel, driving back and forth at the old Alameda NAS for a day.

[Gewehr98]

Dude down the street from me has a Volvo diesel, and took my 5 gallons of used peanut oil for the car.

Interesting about the design differences in the failed GM V-8 diesel.  This caught my eye, though:

A misguided attempt to market the diesel engine as if it was as convenient to operate and maintain as a gasoline engine.

As if Mercedes and Volvo diesel drivers are constantly fretting over their machines?

I'd love to have an older 240D and run restaurant oil in it, I'm right here in the land of the Friday night fish fry! In the meantime, I've been burning nothing but E85 in my truck since last May, it's sorta fun. 

Then again, I'd burn between 100,000 -250,000 pounds of JP4-JP8 in a given sortie, and I know that stuff runs real well in military diesel trucks.  (Nematocyst-870 would have a hemorrhage knowing I contributed so much to global warming in one day, especially after accusing me of being infatuated with my motor vehicles...)  Wonder what Uncle Sam is paying per gallon/pound of JP8 these days, and if they pay road excise tax? 

[wingnutx]

JP4/5/8/whatever runs great in diesels. That's what I ran in the Ford Ranger.

All military diesels run on jet fuel. It's better fuel, and simplifies supply lines.

[Harold Tuttle]

US diesels:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_UScars.html

interesting:
http://www.car-reports.co.uk/jeep/story8.htm

The all-new five-cylinder Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.1 Turbo Diesel is fitted as standard with a sophisticated four-speed automatic transmission and goes on sale in November with an on-the-road price of £30,995 to complete the UK line-up of the American manufacturers luxurious four wheel drive range.

Built in Graz, Austria, and equipped with a new diesel engine produced by VM Motori in Italy, this latest Grand Cherokee model joins the powerful 4.0-litre and muscular 4.7-litre V8 petrol engine models which have given Jeeps flagship range a flying start in the UK, establishing it in recent months as the premier must-have luxury four wheel drive vehicle.

The 3.1-litre TD model is expected to create a further boost in demand for the luxurious Jeep models but also to account for a significant proportion of those Grand Cherokee sales. One third of all previous model Grand Cherokees sold outside North America were equipped with the former 2.5-litre turbo diesel engine and manual gearbox. This level of demand is expected to increase with the arrival of the new and sophisticated turbo diesel engine and its automatic transmission.

With 283 lb ft of torque - almost as much as the 4.7-litre V8 - the responsive turbo diesel unit delivers a remarkable blend of power, economy and ease of operation on road as well as outstanding off-road capability. The 3.1 TD is therefore expected to be particularly popular among those customers who tow horseboxes, boats, caravans or other types of trailer. It can tow loads up to 3500kg.

The new engine produces 138 bhp which accelerates the Grand Cherokee from zero to 60mph in around 13.5 seconds and has a top speed of 108 mph. It returns 29.1 miles per gallon on the extra urban cycle, 24.1 mpg combined and 19.5 mpg on the urban cycle.

[roo_ster]

Oldsmobile Diesel problems
In the hands of an experienced diesel operator, these engines can (and often do) travel for hundreds of thousands of trouble free miles.

A friend of the family bought one of these Olds used with ~50K miles.  He finally sold it around the year 2000.  He forgot how many miles he had on it, as he forgot how many times the odo rolled over. 

He finally got rid of it because a girlfriend of his was ragging him for driving such a rustbucket (he lived part time in Iowa).  Big mistake, as she left him soon after he sold off the Olds.

Oh, he drove diesel pickups for a living.

[Iain]

I remembered this earlier - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05zRyoBbcfI - fifth gear pulls a 747 with a Volkswagen V10 diesel Touareg.

[Ron]

What kind of Fifth Gear post is that? No Vicki or Tiff?

Pretty cool anyway 

[Bogie]

I would _really_ like for my next new vehicle to be a diesel truck. A _small_ diesel truck.

Ideally, an S-10 or Dakota sized thing, extended cab (not four doors) with a longbed... Duallies would be interesting, if they were inside the body instead of outside... The engine from the Dodge/Freightliner/Mercedes "Sprinter" van would be interesting - inline 5 cyl turbodiesel... Those BIG vans get 25ish mpg...
 
Primary use of the vehicle would be commuting, but I would really like something that I could comfortably tow with.

[Zed]

Ford is making quiet noises about a 4.4L 8 cylinder diesel for the 2008/2009 F150.

Actualy it's a V6 Diesel that Ford is Developing in-house for the F150 & small-mid size SUV's (can't remember the Displacement but 4.4 sounds about right).

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Ford is making quiet noises about a 4.4L 8 cylinder diesel for the 2008/2009 F150.

Actualy it's a V6 Diesel that Ford is Developing in-house for the F150 & small-mid size SUV's (can't remember the Displacement but 4.4 sounds about right).

If Ford gets out in front of this one and manages to design a few really good, high-efficiency trucks and SUVs, it could stave off their impending bankruptcy.  Let us hope their management has the right idea.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Google for "Ford F150 diesel"


http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2006/10/ford_to_offer_d.html

Ford will offer a diesel engine for its light-duty F-150 pickup, likely around 2008, according to a former Ford executive in Automotive News earlier this week. The engine will come from Land Rover's diesel-powered Range Rover in Europe. It's a 3.6-liter turbodiesel V-8 that makes 267 hp and 472 pounds-feet of torque in the Range Rover  and it helps the Rover get around 31 mpg on the highway.

This marks the first U.S. light-duty pickup truck to have a diesel engine, according to Automotive News. Those who tow covet diesels for their prodigious torque and massive pulling power, and most heavy-duty pickups  like the Ford F-250/350 and the Chevy Silverado 2500/3500  offer them. Light-duty pickups typically have regular gasoline V-8s with less torque and towing capacity. To get a sense of how diesels affect things, compare Ford's F-350 with a regular gasoline V-10 to a diesel V-8:

2007 F-350 6.8L V-10: 362 hp, 457 lbs.-ft. of torque
Max towing capacity (4.1 axle, dual rear wheel): 13,100  14,100 lbs., depending on cab style
2007 F-350 6.0L V-8 (diesel): 325 hp, 570 lbs.-ft. of torque
Max towing capacity (4.1 axle, dual rear wheel): 15,000 lbs., all cab styles
The brawniest F-150 uses Ford's 5.4-liter V-8 to make 300 hp and 365 pounds-feet of torque, and it can tow up to 10,500 pounds. Since torque has greater impact on towing than horsepower, it's likely the diesel F-150 will tow considerably more.


Regards,
Rabbit.

[Iain]

What kind of Fifth Gear post is that? No Vicki or Tiff?

Pretty cool anyway 

Apologies for that. At least Tim Lovejoy wasn't in it either.

It is pretty cool when you consider that aside from the ballast and the added tire pressure they made no modifications to a standard road car. That's a very powerful engine.

My dad has driven diesels almost exclusively for the last fifteen years. Been through a few, two Citroen BX's of which only one was a turbodiesel. Didn't mind them at the time, seemed quiet enough and the suspension on them was (and still is) great. Diesel technology has moved on since them though and after spending more time in Audi, Vauxhall and Peugeot diesels since then, I recently got a ride in a 'vintage' BX. Slow and extremely loud in comparision to the more modern diesels.

[richyoung]

This marks the first U.S. light-duty pickup truck to have a diesel engine, according to Automotive News.

Automotive news is full of poop.  Chevy and GM half-tons were available with the 5.7 diesel enigine in the mid-80s.

[mtnbkr]

A few years ago, some company was going to start importing a Romanian SUV equipped with a 4cyl turbodiesel priced well under $20k.  The numbers were impressive.  It looked like an old Land Cruiser.  I stopped by the only Va dealership on the way to visit friends in Virginia Beach.  They hadn't started importing yet, but I talked to the salesdroid about the features, expected price, etc.  After many delays, it was announced they were switching to a Ford V6 (gas).  I lost interest at that point.  I don't think they ever imported any.

Chris

[Tallpine]

2007 F-350 6.0L V-8 (diesel): 325 hp, 570 lbs.-ft. of torque
Max towing capacity (4.1 axle, dual rear wheel): 15,000 lbs., all cab styles

I'm sure all the manufacturers rate even their heaviest duty pickups like that, but for a lot folks that I know, towing 15,000 pounds would be almost running empty.

Fill up a big gooseneck with cows and see what it weighs.

The "Hoots" delivered over 7 tons (14,000) of hay to our place, using a Duramax crew-cab.  That's not counting the empty trailer weight, which must have been 6,000 pounds or more.  Then there were the four big German guys    Must have been close to 30K gross.