Author Topic: Chew on this...twice fought off with bats = bad?  (Read 1608 times)

Ex-MA Hole

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Chew on this...twice fought off with bats = bad?
« on: January 09, 2007, 06:32:14 AM »
From the Union Leader:

For some merchants, instinct kicks in when confronted by crooks
By RILEY YATES
Union Leader Staff
12 hours, 15 minutes ago


MANCHESTER  It seems a perfect example of the good guy coming out the winner.

A robber comes into a store and demands money. Instead of cowering, the owner grabs a baseball bat and heads after the would-be thief.

It's the kind of story that captures headlines and television footage.

It's also not a very good idea on the part of the clerk, authorities say.

"Law enforcement doesn't recommend it," said Stephen Monier, the state's U.S. marshal and the former police chief of Goffstown. "Principally, it's because there's a potential for escalation, and of course law enforcement doesn't want anybody to get hurt."


Twice in the past five months, clerks in Manchester wielding bats have successfully chased robbers from their stores.

Most recently, the 78-year-old owner of Four Seasons Market on Lake Avenue last week confronted two robbers, each also carrying bats, after they started poking at his wife.

Though police do not endorse it, owner John Ragonese said he makes no apologies for his decision.

Ragonese said he couldn't wait for officers to arrive, given the danger.

"If somebody is after us to cause bodily harm, I'm going to defend myself to the best of my ability and knowledge," Ragonese said. "Anytime anyone goes after my wife, they're not going to get away with it. No matter how big or how tall."

Another store owner who fought off a robber in September said he has told his clerks not to do as he did.

Richard "Yogi" Cote of Yogi's Convenience Mart on Willow Street used a bat to knock the knife from a robber who was holding it at a customer's throat.

"I don't take my own advice," said Cote, 70. "I had the opportunity to disarm him. He was in a place where I could swing the bat. The only one who got hurt was him."

Monier said it isn't surprising some clerks stand up to robbers. It's human nature to get angry when someone threatens you, he said.

In his time as Goffstown chief, Monier said he can remember instances where owners foiled robbery attempts. Usually in the follow-up investigation, police would suggest they pursue other tacks to dissuading thieves, he said.

Police recommend as best practice simply handing over money, Monier said.

Clerks should remain alert, take mental notes on the robber's description and try to get a license plate number if possible. Police should be called immediately.

To make identifying the perpetrators easier, stores should ensure their windows are clear, increasing the chance of eyewitnesses. They should also use cash-handling practices that minimize the amount of money a robber will get, Monier said.

Real Pinard, a Manchester alderman and the former owner of a convenience store, said he and his wife made the decision early on that they would never confront a robber.

"It's better to give than to get hurt. That's my recommendation to everybody," said Pinard, who owned Real Friendly Corner at Hall and Hanover streets from 1980 to 1990.

"A man with any kind of weapon is more dangerous because of the nervousness involved," Pinard said.

Bill Athanas, the owner of Amoskeag Market on Front Street, said he keeps a bat under the counter, just in case.

While he's told his clerks to always give up the money, he said in the right circumstances, he might go for the bat.

"I probably would not hesitate to use it if was a young kid carrying a knife," Athanas said.

But he said he is aware it isn't a good idea in most situations. "You never know when you pull a bat, if they'll pull a gun," Athanas said. "You give them the money and that's it. It's not worth anyone's life."

Manchester police said it is probably always best to comply with a robber's demands. Sgt. Maureen Tessier, community information officer, said robbers are unknown entities, making it difficult to know how they will react when confronted.

Usually, she said, a robber wants to get in and get out of the store and the clerk or store owner wants the situation to end as quickly as possible.

A confrontation risks escalating the situation and endangering the clerk, she said.

"You have to admire their spunk, but you do have to wonder if they are putting themselves in danger," Tessier said.
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crt360

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Re: Chew on this...twice fought off with bats = bad?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2007, 06:59:24 AM »
What's up with all the bats?  Where's the .44 mag or shotgun?  I would've thought that was the U.K. if not for mention of the U.S. marshal.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Chew on this...twice fought off with bats = bad?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2007, 06:59:33 AM »
Quote
"You have to admire their spunk, but you do have to wonder if they are putting themselves in danger," Tessier said.
You mean, by not using a gun?
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HankB

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Re: Chew on this...twice fought off with bats = bad?
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2007, 07:12:46 AM »
What's up with all the bats?  Where's the .44 mag or shotgun?  I would've thought that was the U.K. if not for mention of the U.S. marshal.
Me too . . . when I saw "Manchester" I really thought it was Britain and found myself wondering "What's a U.S. Marshall doing over there?" and "Why are they using baseball instead of cricket bats?"

Is New Hampshire as anti-gun as Chicago, NYC, or New Jersey?

Is there any reason the owner of a shop CAN'T carry a gun in his own store?
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Chew on this...twice fought off with bats = bad?
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2007, 07:58:16 AM »
I'd use a bat, too.  Right after my .45 ran dry.

280plus

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Re: Chew on this...twice fought off with bats = bad?
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2007, 08:48:24 AM »
Heck, I'd use the .45 right after it went dry.  grin
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Ex-MA Hole

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Re: Chew on this...twice fought off with bats = bad?
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2007, 10:49:04 AM »
Is New Hampshire as anti-gun as Chicago, NYC, or New Jersey?

Is there any reason the owner of a shop CAN'T carry a gun in his own store?

No, NH is rather pro-gun.  In fact, I'm surprised he didn't have a gun.  The joke here is that the crime rate is so low because everyone assume's that the other person has a gun.

Manchester seems to be going downhill hard, though.  In the past few months, it seems that crime is on the steady rise.
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Standing Wolf

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Re: Chew on this...twice fought off with bats = bad?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2007, 03:29:33 PM »
Quote
Police recommend as best practice simply handing over money, Monier said.

Okay. Fine. We'll reimburse victims from the police department's budget. No, it wouldn't likely reduce crime, but it sure would shut those idiots up in a hurry.

This is America! We're supposed to fight back!
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mustanger98

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Re: Chew on this...twice fought off with bats = bad?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2007, 04:52:21 PM »
What's up with all the bats?  Where's the .44 mag or shotgun?  I would've thought that was the U.K. if not for mention of the U.S. marshal.
Me too . . . when I saw "Manchester" I really thought it was Britain and found myself wondering "What's a U.S. Marshall doing over there?" and "Why are they using baseball instead of cricket bats?"

Is New Hampshire as anti-gun as Chicago, NYC, or New Jersey?

Is there any reason the owner of a shop CAN'T carry a gun in his own store?

What I want to know is what are they doing using baseball bats instead of hockey sticks. I thought everybody knew a hockey stick was the dealiest weapon known to man. Hey, if Snoopy knew it...

Yeah, I was wondering where were the guns, but I thought then again that's NY.

mustanger98

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Re: Chew on this...twice fought off with bats = bad?
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2007, 04:55:13 PM »
Okay, New Hampshire; not NY.

Quote
Police recommend as best practice simply handing over money, Monier said.

Okay. Fine. We'll reimburse victims from the police department's budget. No, it wouldn't likely reduce crime, but it sure would shut those idiots up in a hurry.

This is America! We're supposed to fight back!

We're supposed to fight back. Yeah, that's what I thought.

gunsmith

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Re: Chew on this...twice fought off with bats = bad?
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2007, 06:11:17 PM »
Manchester is where the infamous mvpel open carry case happened...
I wonder what ever happened to him and that case??
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Antibubba

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Re: Chew on this...twice fought off with bats = bad?
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2007, 09:39:55 PM »
Quote
Instead of cowering, the owner grabs a baseball bat and heads after the would-be thief. 

I daresay, that isn't cricket!     grin
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280plus

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Re: Chew on this...twice fought off with bats = bad?
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2007, 02:25:58 AM »
Quote
Instead of cowering, the owner grabs a baseball bat and heads after the would-be thief. 

I daresay, that isn't cricket!     grin

[jack nicholson voice]What? I'm not going to hurt you. I'm just going to bash your $%*% BRAINS IN!! [/jack nicholson voice]  laugh
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