Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Leatherneck on January 20, 2009, 05:26:39 PM
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As the parade passed, the Marine Band--"The President's Own"-- passed, looking good as always. The teeWee showed the president chatting with the Commandant. As all Marines do, the CMC saluted as the band played the Marine hymn. Barry immediately imitated the general's hand salute. Hesu Christo, this guy is slick.
TC
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Would you expect the Commander in Chief to not return a salute?
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depends. From what I recall, Oll Bill did not return many a salutes, espec ially when disembarking from AF1. I think what he is saying here though is that it looked like 'The One' would not have had the Commandant not been standing there next to him and did it. Or rather that the Big O did not think about it until the Commandant did.
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Would you expect a President who has never served in the military to start saluting regularly?
Considering some of the respectful comments I used to see regarding Bush's saluting practices, it might not be a bad idea for any President to do it if only for military morale.
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Somethin' weird here. You don't salute the Marines' Hymn, you stand at attention.
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Doc, although TV didn't show it, I assume the General was saluting the colors as they passed.
What I was commenting on was the president's ability to pick up on cues and do what he thinks is expected of him.
TC
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Hey, I don't care who salutes the Colors, especially during the Hymn.
Good for him. "Fake it til ya make it" has caused some transformations before.
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With all the many, many MANY things to criticize Barack Hussein Obama for . . . this salute isn't one of them.
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I assume the General was saluting the colors as they passed.
Well, that makes a helluva lot more sense. Also makes ol' Barry clueless.
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Is it standard protocol for the POTUS to salute the flag when passing?
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Nope.
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Is it standard protocol for the POTUS to salute the flag when passing?
Standard or not, he ought to, as the colors and everything behind them are what the POTUS vowed to uphold.
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You salute when you're in uniform. In civilian clothes you place your hand over your heart.
Not that many (most?) other presidents haven't done it.
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Section 595 of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2009, the new law (Public Law No. 110-181 of the United States Code) reads:
by striking “all persons present” and all that follows through the end of the section and inserting the following: “all persons present in uniform should render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. All other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, or if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Citizens of other countries present should stand at attention. All such conduct toward the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes.”
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You salute when you're in uniform. In civilian clothes you place your hand over your heart.
Not that many (most?) other presidents haven't done it.
One could argue that the official uniform of the POTUS is a business suit...or, for that matter, whatever he deems it to be.
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Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute.
Well, that's new. As they were teaching it when I was in boot camp (and no-one ever told me otherwise later, which doesn't necessarily mean that it didn't change) active-duty military out of uniform were to simply stand at attention, civilians put their hands over their hearts, and of course those in uniform were to salute.
This new change leads me to ask whether he knew about this change (doubt it) or was just eager to return a salute he thought was aimed at him. And whether or not CINC counts as a "member of the military" I'd say he doesn't.
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How could he be commander in chief of the armed forces but not be part of them? Seems rather contradictory.
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Personally, I'd say "member of the military" would mean someone who was trained and serves on active duty or can be called to active duty. That wouldn't include the President or the Secretaries. I have no idea what the official definition is.
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Since POTUS is CINC, he is in the Chain of Command. (Go check any day room of any unit in the armed forces for the Chain of Command photos.)
Therefore he is saluted and should return salutes. He should also render a salute when the colors pass.
IIRC, the POTUS receives a block of instruction on rendering honors (and how to properly salute) before taking office.
Also keep in mind that the inauguration is the ultimate change of command ceremony.
Maybe Obama just thought that if the CMC was saluting he needed to also. What's the old saying "When in doubt salute it."
I will give him credit for having a much better salute then Clinton.
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Yes, I know POTUS is CINC. That's why I called him that. Military officers do not salute when not in uniform, why should he?
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Is it standard protocol for the POTUS to salute the flag when passing?
Wrong side of the question.
Does it violate protocal for the POTUS to salute the flag when passing?
If not, as he is the top of all of the COC for every service, I'd say he can do whatever he pleases.
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Wrong side of the question.
Does it violate protocal for the POTUS to salute the flag when passing?
Same thing. Protocol is a specific way of doing things. Either you are following it, or you are violating it. Not that it's a big deal.
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If I recall correctly, the President is not a member of the military despite his Constitutional role as CinC. Clinton tried this argument during one of his many lawsuits, claiming that under the Soldiers and Sailors Act he was immune from suit. It seems the Court laughed appreciatevely. The President has authority under the Constitution, federal law, and military regulations to command the military, but he remains at all times a civilian.
The modern tradition of Presidents returning salutes started with Reagan, who had no other effective means of returning the salutes being rendered him and wanted to honor the soldiers in kind.
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The modern tradition of Presidents returning salutes started with Reagan, who had no other effective means of returning the salutes being rendered him and wanted to honor the soldiers in kind.
Pretty much my thought on the matter. While it's not required if he's not in unform, if I salute my commander while out of uniform, he's likely to return it. Given the the President doesn't technically have a uniform, but does frequently get saluted, rendering a salute in return to finish it is probably the best option.
View it as an attempt by Obama to be respectful, and respect him for that. Let's not lambast him for not knowing the intricacies of military greeting protocols.
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Let's not lambast him for not knowing the intricacies of military greeting protocols.
I'm not lambasting him, but he "returned" a salute that wasn't directed at him. That makes him clueless.
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Section 595 of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2009, the new law (Public Law No. 110-181 of the United States Code) reads:
by striking “all persons present” and all that follows through the end of the section and inserting the following: “all persons present in uniform should render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. All other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, or if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Citizens of other countries present should stand at attention. All such conduct toward the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes.”
Thank God we have a law for that.
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by striking “all persons present” and all that follows through the end of the section and inserting the following: “all persons present in uniform should render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. All other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, or if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Citizens of other countries present should stand at attention. All such conduct toward the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes.”
...and he used to follow the law so well...
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realdealpolitics.com%2Fimages%2FObamaFlag0907sm.jpg&hash=5d9737ecdf17f76c0e7d82b1280c0947d9eafd87)
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This may be one of the dumbest controversies to ever hit this board. I'm still not sure why Mike hasn't moved it to Round Table. Doesn't want it to spread, maybe? ???
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View it as an attempt by Obama to be respectful, and respect him for that.
This.
You think he was returning a salute... maybe he thought he was saluting the flag. Clueless but earnest?