Suspended ceilings

[zahc]

I have a big room in my house with a high ceiling. The 2nd story floor joists are not very even so the ceiling, large as it is, looks kind of wavy. I need to patch a spot anyway, so i'm thinking it would be great to put in a ceiling that was dropped down 4-5 inches. The floor is tile so i'm hoping it would cut down on echos too.

Anyone put a suspended ceiling in a residence?

[never_retreat]

Yes, make sure you use the 2x2 tiles and some of the nicer ones or it will end up looking like an office ceiling.

[Hawkmoon]

Use a laser level when installing the grid. Your goal is to improve an uneven ceiling -- no point in replacing it with another uneven ceiling.

[Azrael256]

If you fall off the ladder, try not to take down the grid with you.

Or so I've been told.

[brimic]

+1 on the laser level and the 2x2 tiles.

[lupinus]

If you fall off the ladder, try not to take down the grid with you.

Or so I've been told.

Yes. Yes this. Grids do not double as monkey bars. Ask my Uncle how I know.

[zahc]

Went to Lowes and HD and neither one had any wife-approved tiles available. They went straight from $1/sq.ft. office-looking tiles, to $4/sq.ft. designer tiles that had to be special ordered.

[AJ Dual]

Honestly, unless it's in a basement rec-room, you might as well go for one of the uber-expensive suspended ceilings that make it look like it's a fancy coffered ceiling in a study, or the fancy antique tin panels or whatever, otherwise, it's going to look look like its just a suspended ceiling to cover up something that's wrong or broken.

I would know, since I've had some suspended/tiled ceilings in my house to cover up bad remodling work, or water damage... 

[RoadKingLarry]

Slightly off the track but a dozen years or so ago I was working at a college running data cables and new phone lines to all the dorm rooms. We were runnning the cables above the suspended ceilings and we had college's maintenance supervisor tagging along partly because he was bored and partly because he wanted to learn a little about what we were doing. About the 3rd or 4th room we worked we lifted a ceiling tile and down came a big ole bag of weed, gallon ziplock back stuffed full.
Things got interesting for the rest of the afternoon.

[geronimotwo]

if using a rotery laser level, keep it an inch below the grid. then use a marked wood block as a guage to keep the gap the same.  if you are using the heavy commercial wire, make a mark on your pliers (to line up with the laser) and every bend will be right where it should be.

if you don't have a laser, most rooms can be done with a standard level.  a magnetic torpedo level works the best.

[Tallpine]

What about putting in some fake wooden beams under the existing ceiling? 

It would look interesting and disguise the imperfections in the ceiling.

[zahc]

I'm not visualizing how fake wooden beams will cover anything up.

It'm not just trying to cover things up. I want to take down the existing sheetrock and inspect all the joists, put in trellis bracing, or possibly double some of the studs to help stiffen up the 2nd story floor. Suspended ceiling would then be easier to put back in. I haven't done it because I wouldn't tackle doing a sheetrock ceiling myself, and suspended would probably look better. I think a sheetrock ceiling would only look good if it was textured, since the room is large (400sq ft) and joists are just not that even after 40 years.

[Tallpine]

I'm not visualizing how fake wooden beams will cover anything up.

It'm not just trying to cover things up. I want to take down the existing sheetrock and inspect all the joists, put in trellis bracing, or possibly double some of the studs to help stiffen up the 2nd story floor. Suspended ceiling would then be easier to put back in. I haven't done it because I wouldn't tackle doing a sheetrock ceiling myself, and suspended would probably look better. I think a sheetrock ceiling would only look good if it was textured, since the room is large (400sq ft) and joists are just not that even after 40 years.

Maybe some real beams, then - if you have something that you could support the ends on...

[AJ Dual]

I'm not visualizing how fake wooden beams will cover anything up.

It'm not just trying to cover things up. I want to take down the existing sheetrock and inspect all the joists, put in trellis bracing, or possibly double some of the studs to help stiffen up the 2nd story floor. Suspended ceiling would then be easier to put back in. I haven't done it because I wouldn't tackle doing a sheetrock ceiling myself, and suspended would probably look better. I think a sheetrock ceiling would only look good if it was textured, since the room is large (400sq ft) and joists are just not that even after 40 years.

Well, if you've had a structural engineer inspect the ceiling, and he/she says it's normal settling/age, and not indicative of bigger problems, some cosmetic beams aligned with the joist waves would break up the eye-lines that allow you to see the imperfections. Is the 2nd story floor above that room bouncy or giving indications of being weak, or sagging? And I mean real weakness/sagging, not just squeaky floor boards.

Granted, if you've got a wave every 16" on center or whatever, and the waves are more than an inch or so, then no, the beams wouldn't hide it. Or maybe it's only visible when the light in the room is right?

If the problem is just cosmetic, cosmetic non load-bearing beams, they even make them in paintable/stainble foam these days, will hide a LOT of sins, and do so way easier and cheaper than drywall or a suspended ceiling system would.

Not the same situation, but I had a 1st floor bedroom with a closet that dead-ended against the front foyer of my bungalow style house. We wanted it as an office/den since there were four more bedrooms upstairs, so I put interior glass French doors on the room side of the closet opening, and I ripped out the back wall of the closet to extend the rather claustrophobic foyer a bit. That left a gap in the plaster and lath walls and the ceiling, and rather than fill in the gaps and try to merge everything evenly which would have been hard because there never was lath where the wall studs were, I just put in hollow box-beams I constructed myself over the gap, and made a decorative arch which dressed up the foyer nicely.

[geronimotwo]

if your floor is sagging because of insufficient joist size for the span, you may need a supporting beam to beef things up. 400sq ft is a good sized room. what are the dimensions of the room, and the joists?  how high is the ceiling, and what would you consider the minimum finished height desired?

[zahc]

The room is roughly square. I'm not sure of the joist dimensions (hence desire to take down sheetrock). I would imagine a span this large, unless there is a beam in there, would need 2x12s or engineered joists. Who wants to bet they are just regular 2x10s?

Is the 2nd story floor above that room bouncy or giving indications of being weak, or sagging?

Yes, both. It's not severe like, I think the house is going to fall down...it's been here 30 years.

Maybe some real beams, then - if you have something that you could support the ends on...

I've thought of that too; against the wall on each side of the room I could put 4x6 posts from the slab up to support a real beam across the room. I could box the post in with hardwood trim or paint it so it didn't look super ghetto.

[Tallpine]

The room is roughly square. I'm not sure of the joist dimensions (hence desire to take down sheetrock). I would imagine a span this large, unless there is a beam in there, would need 2x12s or engineered joists. Who wants to bet they are just regular 2x10s?

Yes, both. It's not severe like, I think the house is going to fall down...it's been here 30 years.

I've thought of that too; against the wall on each side of the room I could put 4x6 posts from the slab up to support a real beam across the room. I could box the post in with hardwood trim or paint it so it didn't look super ghetto.

If you were up to a little more sheet rock work, you could open up the walls and frame in pockets for the beams.  Actually, a big room like that would look nice with wood paneling. 

(I've lived in log cabins smaller than 20x20)

[geronimotwo]

20x20?  that's a pretty long span.   even with 2x12's on 16" centers you'll feel the bounce.  to stiffen things up you may need an engineered beam, or a post in the middle if there is an existing beam. i would be interested in knowing the dimensions of the joists.  you can poke a small hole and measure a length of coat hanger to get the depth without destroying things.

[Hawkmoon]

The room is roughly square. I'm not sure of the joist dimensions (hence desire to take down sheetrock). I would imagine a span this large, unless there is a beam in there, would need 2x12s or engineered joists. Who wants to bet they are just regular 2x10s?

There used to be two rules of thumb for carpenters. They don't absolutely coincide with the joist span tables in the current International Residential Code, but if you follow them your floor won't collapse.

Rule 1: Take the joist depth in inches, multiply by 1-1/2, and that's the safe joist span in feet. [2x10 ==> 15-foot span]

Rule 2: Take the joist depth in inches, subtract 2, then double the result and that's the safe joist span in feet. [2x10 ==> (10-2)x2 = 16-foot span.

That was when framing lumber was mostly from old growth trees. The prudent handyman today would run both calculations and choose the more conservative (or, just look up the current span tables on-line, but that means you have to know what species and grade the wood is.) I can't imagine that anyone would ever have framed a 20-foot span without a beam or a girder ... not even with 2x12s. They would work (by one formula but not the other), but the floor would be like a trampoline to walk on.

[Tallpine]

I worked for a guy that used 1" of joist height for 1' of span.  Can you say "overbuilt" ?   



How do you use a 20x20 foot room 

If not as all one traffic space, then you could put a crossbeam/support posts a several feet off of one or both opposite walls, to make "galleries" for office/reading nook - which would make the span shorter.   

[brimic]

if you don't have a laser, most rooms can be done with a standard level.  a magnetic torpedo level works the best.

Water level ftw.

[Hawkmoon]

Water level ftw.

You, and I, and perhaps three other living people on the entire planet understand what you just wrote there.

[zahc]

I know what a water level is; the Amish back home use them a lot for pouring concrete. Can't beat the simplicity, even compared to a transit which can get bumped and needs 2 people to use.

[AJ Dual]

Without looking it up, I presume this to be a clear tube with water in it held in a "U"-shape of the needed distance, and the even water levels at both ends are then used as set points to snap your chalk line or whatnot?

What do I win? 

[zahc]

You just have a reservoir (i.e. bucket, trash can) with a hose bib in the bottom, hook up a garden hose, and at the other end of the garden hose is a yardstick with some clear hose tie-wrapped to it longways (like a rain gage). The end of the clear hose is left open. The level of the water in the clear hose is always equal to the level of the water in the reservoir. You then employ the yardstick appropriately to get your concrete/suspended ceiling level. Benefits are that one guy can wield it, and you don't need line-of-site (which is always fun when setting up a transit).